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  #21  
Old 22.07.2019, 09:54
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Re: Thoughts on conspiracy theories and other far out theories?

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Old 22.07.2019, 11:58
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Re: Thoughts on conspiracy theories and other far out theories?

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There is also far too much UFO, or UAP's (Unidentified Ariel Phenomena as they are now known) evidence for it to be simply dismissed as natural phenomenon. There are many official military declassified documents showing they take it seriously, and too many eye-witness sightings from pilots (who are best-placed to identify known aircraft and current technology) and first-hand accounts from senior military personnel.

If a highly trained fighter pilot or his superiors cannot identify a craft in his airspace and say that said craft does not correspond to any of our known designs, technologies or flight characteristics/aerodynamics, then it is by definition a UFO (whether terrestrial or otherwise). We have no KNOWN technologies that can hover in place and immediately change direction at super/hypersonic speeds at a moments notice and yet pilots have seen them and been baffled, shocked and scared for decades.
I used to like that stuff a lot when I was a kid... project blue book and things like that. Now I more or less don't believe in it any more. In this smartphone age, you would have thought that there would be a lot more convincing videos than there used to be.

Although I must say, I always found the Roswell case intriguing.
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Old 22.07.2019, 12:10
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Re: Thoughts on conspiracy theories and other far out theories?

What's always made mw wonder is all these UFO and space craft are shown as pictures of our interpretations of what space craft should look like.


Maybe Aliens have designed something totally different.


It's a bit like Jesus pictures always show some beared white European gentlemen; Jesus came from the Middle East, so we are told....
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Old 22.07.2019, 12:18
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Re: Thoughts on conspiracy theories and other far out theories?

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It's a bit like Jesus pictures always show some beared white European gentlemen; Jesus came from the Middle East, so we are told....
Or did he..?


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Old 22.07.2019, 12:29
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Re: Thoughts on conspiracy theories and other far out theories?

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People are bored and retarded irrational meatsacks.

There will always be people believing any old shit.
Or as David Baddiel said
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Conspiracy theory - which is always presented as a collection of facts, harvested lovingly from that great source of truth, the internet - is how idiots get to feel like intellectuals.
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Old 22.07.2019, 12:34
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Re: Thoughts on conspiracy theories and other far out theories?

in years gone by there was always a steady stream of people saying they've seen ufo's but didn't have a camera, now just about everyone on the planet has a camera yet we don't see thousands of UFO pics??? odd considering you could just stick em up on facebook etc

maybe the government is deleting them?
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Old 22.07.2019, 13:01
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Re: Thoughts on conspiracy theories and other far out theories?

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Old 22.07.2019, 13:07
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Re: Thoughts on conspiracy theories and other far out theories?

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Or as David Baddiel said
I agree with your sentiments but that does not mean that while the vast majority of conspiracy theories are nonsense, that there are no actual real conspiracies out there. Given humanity's ability to deceive, you'd have to be an even bigger fool to think that.

Last edited by krlock3; 22.07.2019 at 15:57. Reason: spelling
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  #29  
Old 22.07.2019, 13:48
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Re: Thoughts on conspiracy theories and other far out theories?

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...Given humanities ability to deceive, you'd have to be an even bigger fool to think that.
But maintaining a deception over decades involving vast numbers of people?
Nah. We're too shit for that

Unless you're talking religion...
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Old 22.07.2019, 14:57
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Re: Thoughts on conspiracy theories and other far out theories?

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I agree with your sentiments but that does not mean that while the vast majority of conspiracy theories are nonsense, that there are no actual real conspiracies out there. Given humanities ability to deceive, you'd have to be an even bigger fool to think that.
I take your point. But has there ever been an 'out there' conspiracy theory which has subsequently turned out to be true?
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Old 22.07.2019, 15:06
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Re: Thoughts on conspiracy theories and other far out theories?

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I take your point. But has there ever been an 'out there' conspiracy theory which has subsequently turned out to be true?
Alfred Wegener was pretty much out there when he first started talking about plate tectonics.

When the stories about the sexual abuse scandal in Rotherham first started percolating out, the main messenger was a certain Nick Griffin and people thought he was just trying to stir up racism and assumed he was making it all up.

In fact it makes a huge difference whether a man in a clown's costume is shouting something or a man in a lab coat. hence maybe, some of the backlash against "experts" when maybe they overstep the mark, or appear to be doing so.
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Old 22.07.2019, 15:11
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Re: Thoughts on conspiracy theories and other far out theories?

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I take your point. But has there ever been an 'out there' conspiracy theory which has subsequently turned out to be true?
Actually there are some real humdingers...
For one General Motors really did kill the American railroad.
And MK-Ultra, mind control experimenst via LSD were real.
John Lennon was being watched and the Government spys on you.
The Tobacco industry knew that smoking caused cancer, the Gulf of Tonkin incident was staged, and that governments around the world know that global warming is here.
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  #33  
Old 22.07.2019, 15:11
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Re: Thoughts on conspiracy theories and other far out theories?

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But maintaining a deception over decades involving vast numbers of people?
Nah. We're too shit for that
We're not.

My mum and her sister spent the school summer holidays of 1938 and 39 with their aunt and uncle. At the time, they had a stable cottage in the grounds of a beautiful country house in Buckinghamshire that went with their uncle's job.

The first summer was quiet, and although people came and went, only two other families and a single German man living on the estate at the time. My mum used to love having tea in the courtyard outside the cottage whilst listening to the German man playing Chopin on the piano in his room. By the end of the summer, more people had begun to move onto the estate and were working in the main house.

In the summer of 1939, more and more people arrived at the country house and it's new outbuildings, and the German man was 'moved out' part way through the summer. My great uncle welcomed many of the new people as he had helped to recruit some of them and knew them from his days at Cambridge uni. A couple of months later, he was also moved out to a new location.

For 40yrs, that was all we knew...my mum and aunt's stories of lovely summer's days playing in the grounds of the big house and going through a gate at the bottom of the garden to catch the train into London for the day. All we had was a clutch of photos of the stable cottage, the country house and one informal photo of my great uncle standing outside the house with a group of his friends and colleagues. Then in the late 1970's, a book titled 'Ultra' was published. My mum, aunt and great aunt read it with great glee, particularly my great aunt. Finally, after 40yrs, she could begin to tell some of her secrets.

Today, Station X and Bletchely Park are public knowledge and the subject of films, tv series' and books. Alan Turing, has recently been announced as the person to feature on the new BofE £50 note.

I've visited Bletchley Park a few times now. The last time, I took my OH as it's an absolute haven for computer geeks, but I took him on the annual reunion day. He got quite emotional walking round the exhibits with little old men and ladies who were showing their families their former workplace. I'm just so happy that they lived long enough to tell their secrets as more and more events that had been covered by the Official Secrets Act became public knowledge. I'm also glad to now have a 'name' for one of the original photos I inherited. Apparently, it's known as 'Captain Ridley's Shooting Party'.

Now...what's the difference between a conspiracy theory and a good old-fashioned secret?

p.s. My great uncle was moved because whilst he was a decent code breaker, his heart belonged to pyrotechnics. Basically, he just liked blowing things up.
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  #34  
Old 22.07.2019, 15:12
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Re: Thoughts on conspiracy theories and other far out theories?

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For a lifetime's worth of Alien, space, and like kind conspiracy theories see : Ancient Aliens from the US History channel... Highly entertaining TV show. Much of it inspired by Erich von Däniken a Swiss himself, I believe he even has a theme park here down by Lucern. Been watching it for years, always entertaining.
Däniken is a clown. He cherry picks and twists evidence.

I don't think anybody outside of the tin-foil-hat-o-sphere takes him seriously. But he has huge entertainment value which is what he turns into money.
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Old 22.07.2019, 15:21
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Re: Thoughts on conspiracy theories and other far out theories?

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I agree with your sentiments but that does not mean that while the vast majority of conspiracy theories are nonsense, that there are no actual real conspiracies out there. Given humanities ability to deceive, you'd have to be an even bigger fool to think that.
What we learned from the ones we know is that conspiracies involving small groups of people already have hard times to stay a secret, thinking that tens of thousands of people involved in the moon landing would be able to keep shut for 50 years is to me nothing more or less than a clear sign of insanity.
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Old 22.07.2019, 15:25
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Re: Thoughts on conspiracy theories and other far out theories?

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We're not.

My mum and her sister spent the school summer holidays of 1938 and 39 with their aunt and uncle. At the time, they had a stable cottage in the grounds of a beautiful country house in Buckinghamshire that went with their uncle's job.

The first summer was quiet, and although people came and went, only two other families and a single German man living on the estate at the time. My mum used to love having tea in the courtyard outside the cottage whilst listening to the German man playing Chopin on the piano in his room. By the end of the summer, more people had begun to move onto the estate and were working in the main house.

In the summer of 1939, more and more people arrived at the country house and it's new outbuildings, and the German man was 'moved out' part way through the summer. My great uncle welcomed many of the new people as he had helped to recruit some of them and knew them from his days at Cambridge uni. A couple of months later, he was also moved out to a new location.

For 40yrs, that was all we knew...my mum and aunt's stories of lovely summer's days playing in the grounds of the big house and going through a gate at the bottom of the garden to catch the train into London for the day. All we had was a clutch of photos of the stable cottage, the country house and one informal photo of my great uncle standing outside the house with a group of his friends and colleagues. Then in the late 1970's, a book titled 'Ultra' was published. My mum, aunt and great aunt read it with great glee, particularly my great aunt. Finally, after 40yrs, she could begin to tell some of her secrets.

Today, Station X and Bletchely Park are public knowledge and the subject of films, tv series' and books. Alan Turing, has recently been announced as the person to feature on the new BofE £50 note.

I've visited Bletchley Park a few times now. The last time, I took my OH as it's an absolute haven for computer geeks, but I took him on the annual reunion day. He got quite emotional walking round the exhibits with little old men and ladies who were showing their families their former workplace. I'm just so happy that they lived long enough to tell their secrets as more and more events that had been covered by the Official Secrets Act became public knowledge. I'm also glad to now have a 'name' for one of the original photos I inherited. Apparently, it's known as 'Captain Ridley's Shooting Party'.

Now...what's the difference between a conspiracy theory and a good old-fashioned secret?

p.s. My great uncle was moved because whilst he was a decent code breaker, his heart belonged to pyrotechnics. Basically, he just liked blowing things up.

not exactly a conspiracy theory though is it, lots of people work for the government and sign and adhere to the official secrets act, especially when (at that time) if you broke it you could be hung.

covering up blowing up the twin towers, or chem trails, or aliens, or the moon landings (given the USSR would have screamed from the roof tops the radio signals where not coming from the moon) would be a whole different ball game
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Old 22.07.2019, 15:29
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Re: Thoughts on conspiracy theories and other far out theories?

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We're not.

My mum and her sister spent the school summer holidays of 1938 and 39 with their aunt and uncle. At the time, they had a stable cottage in the grounds of a beautiful country house in Buckinghamshire that went with their uncle's job.

The first summer was quiet, and although people came and went, only two other families and a single German man living on the estate at the time. My mum used to love having tea in the courtyard outside the cottage whilst listening to the German man playing Chopin on the piano in his room. By the end of the summer, more people had begun to move onto the estate and were working in the main house.

In the summer of 1939, more and more people arrived at the country house and it's new outbuildings, and the German man was 'moved out' part way through the summer. My great uncle welcomed many of the new people as he had helped to recruit some of them and knew them from his days at Cambridge uni. A couple of months later, he was also moved out to a new location.

For 40yrs, that was all we knew...my mum and aunt's stories of lovely summer's days playing in the grounds of the big house and going through a gate at the bottom of the garden to catch the train into London for the day. All we had was a clutch of photos of the stable cottage, the country house and one informal photo of my great uncle standing outside the house with a group of his friends and colleagues. Then in the late 1970's, a book titled 'Ultra' was published. My mum, aunt and great aunt read it with great glee, particularly my great aunt. Finally, after 40yrs, she could begin to tell some of her secrets.

Today, Station X and Bletchely Park are public knowledge and the subject of films, tv series' and books. Alan Turing, has recently been announced as the person to feature on the new BofE £50 note.

I've visited Bletchley Park a few times now. The last time, I took my OH as it's an absolute haven for computer geeks, but I took him on the annual reunion day. He got quite emotional walking round the exhibits with little old men and ladies who were showing their families their former workplace. I'm just so happy that they lived long enough to tell their secrets as more and more events that had been covered by the Official Secrets Act became public knowledge. I'm also glad to now have a 'name' for one of the original photos I inherited. Apparently, it's known as 'Captain Ridley's Shooting Party'.

Now...what's the difference between a conspiracy theory and a good old-fashioned secret?

p.s. My great uncle was moved because whilst he was a decent code breaker, his heart belonged to pyrotechnics. Basically, he just liked blowing things up.
Bletchly park was much less a secret than a lot of people think, and even tho they had only a fraction of the amount of people involved as were involved with the moonlanding, and keeping it a secret actually served a much greater goal than keeping the moon landing secret (imho) they simply did not manage. They had problems with information leaks and a Russian spy.
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  #38  
Old 22.07.2019, 15:38
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Re: Thoughts on conspiracy theories and other far out theories?

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covering up blowing up the twin towers, or chem trails, or aliens, or the moon landings (given the USSR would have screamed from the roof tops the radio signals where not coming from the moon) would be a whole different ball game
I think there are different levels of conspiracy theory.

Some may say, the twin towers were blown up by a demolition squad from the CIA. Not credible as it would reuire a high level of intervention and high risk of being exposed.

Some others say, the attacks was real, but the powers that be saw it coming and chose to allow it to happen, because it suited their plan for going to war.

This is a different level of conspiracy, much more passive and thus much more difficult to disprove as the people involved would be bound by secrecy anway and this could quite easily work without anybody external being involved. So unless soembody actually digs up a memo that tells people not to act on information received, this remains vaguely possible.

Another conspiracy theory that keeps coming up is that Hitler didn't commit suicide but was whisked away and escaped to Argentina. All serious historians AFAIK say this is absolute bogus, and won't even discuss it. But hardly a year goes by that somebody doesn't dig up a fuzzy out-of-focus 1950s photo of some guy in a wheelchair in the garden of a villa in Bariloque who vaguely resembles Hitler. And now the FBI has revealed that they were at one time taking this sufficiently seriously to be keeping a dossier on these sightings, which, with thousands of text passages blacked out, is now released into the public domain.

That doesn't make it true of course. But I don't think the FBI investigates stuff if they know with certainty that it can't be true.
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Old 22.07.2019, 16:03
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Re: Thoughts on conspiracy theories and other far out theories?

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What we learned from the ones we know is that conspiracies involving small groups of people already have hard times to stay a secret, thinking that tens of thousands of people involved in the moon landing would be able to keep shut for 50 years is to me nothing more or less than a clear sign of insanity.
Yes, this is precisely what I said on the last page. But that does not preclude other smaller conspiracies, known by a lesser amount of people, from being real ... albeit as I also said, the vast majority of conspiracy theories / far out theories are false.
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Old 22.07.2019, 16:05
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That doesn't make it true of course. But I don't think the FBI investigates stuff if they know with certainty that it can't be true.
Absolutely... like the US - Air Force, FBI, etc - certainly investigated UFOs
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