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View Poll Results: Do poor kids have a chance?
Yes! Even as much as white ones. 2 25.00%
No! White kids are better. 1 12.50%
I don't give a .... 2 25.00%
I thing Biden will be a great president. 3 37.50%
Voters: 8. You may not vote on this poll

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  #101  
Old 12.08.2019, 14:40
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Re: Do poor kids have a chance

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Naw, nobody is. These are personal testimonies. I bring people like that to my classes, it works well. Very concrete and in a country that insures luck so it would happen.
What does the bit in bold actually mean?
I know Switzerland is very big on insurance but how do you insure luck?
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  #102  
Old 12.08.2019, 14:40
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Re: Do poor kids have a chance

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... in many cases the reality is that a massive setback forces you to simply rely on plan B, C or all the way down to Z.
Yes!
And actually having any plan B or C to fall back on may be a question of wise provision (if one has once been wealthy enough to make such a provision in the first place), but it is often just plain good luck, for example if one knows that, if all else fails, one can count on one's parents/siblings/children to support one.

Last edited by doropfiz; 12.08.2019 at 15:00.
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  #103  
Old 12.08.2019, 14:42
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Re: Do poor kids have a chance

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What does the bit in bold actually mean?
I know Switzerland is very big on insurance but how do you insure luck?
Being on the same Jass team as the head of the local council goes a long way...
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  #104  
Old 12.08.2019, 14:43
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Re: Do poor kids have a chance

i hate the editing but...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZT1zCK7aX4k


the fact that people don't see those success cases as positive bias is confounding to me. I am unsure wether they refuse to acknowledge there are headstarts/hinderances that are completely out of your control and can have 99% of the say on where you end up.
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  #105  
Old 12.08.2019, 14:44
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Re: Do poor kids have a chance

Of course luck has a lot to do with it! Not everyone is born with brilliant intellect and a drive to become rich, and shit happens when you least expect it.
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  #106  
Old 12.08.2019, 14:48
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Re: Do poor kids have a chance

You lucky barsteward..!
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  #107  
Old 12.08.2019, 14:50
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Re: Do poor kids have a chance

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I bring people like that to my classes...
You mean people who have started out very poor, and then achieved great things, and ALL of that was achieved only by their own determination, and not ever by any luck along the way? Really?
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  #108  
Old 12.08.2019, 14:54
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Re: Do poor kids have a chance

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Of course luck has a lot to do with it! Not everyone is born with brilliant intellect..
Some with learning difficulties like fatman, you mean? It's incredible when people overcome the bad cards they get dealt.

They are so many people we'd rush to classify as unlucky but they refuse to be labelled and keep advancing.

Of course, catastrophies happen, difficult conditions happen, etc etc.
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  #109  
Old 12.08.2019, 15:01
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Re: Do poor kids have a chance

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Of course luck has a lot to do with it! Not everyone is born with brilliant intellect.. (edited per MC)
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Some with learning difficulties like fatman, you mean?
Oh no you didn't!
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  #110  
Old 12.08.2019, 15:02
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Re: Do poor kids have a chance

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Some with learning difficulties like fatman, you mean? It's incredible when people overcome the bad cards they get dealt.

They are so many people we'd rush to classify as unlucky but they refuse to be labelled and keep advancing.

Of course, catastrophies happen, difficult conditions happen, etc etc.
Some difficulties can be "overcome" while some can only be managed. The child of one of my friends was born with a brain disorder that causes seizures. To stop the seizures and give him some quality of life, they removed part of his brain. He can't overcome this, but he can manage it. He works in a manual labor job under close supervision and has lists to keep him on track since he can't really remember anything for very long. He lives with someone who helps supervise him. He'll never be rich and successful, because he's simply not capable of overcoming the cards he was dealt.

The views coming across from some people in this thread are that successful people are that way only because of their hard work (never any luck), and those that are not successful it's their own fault for not working hard enough to overcome obstacles.

I'm arguing life is never that simple.
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  #111  
Old 12.08.2019, 15:06
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Re: Do poor kids have a chance

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Oh no you didn't!
You forgot the thread where he shared about it? His intellect is brilliant, had to overcome other stuff to succeed. I think we need to congratulate.

Everyone can see themselves as lucky or unlucky, imho. We have stats on poverty for some kind of objectivity but still. There are people who say that being born into wealth makes people unhappy and unmotivated, yet we keep perceiving it as luck.
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  #112  
Old 12.08.2019, 15:08
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Re: Do poor kids have a chance

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Some difficulties can be "overcome" while some can only be managed. The child of one of my friends was born with a brain disorder that causes seizures. To stop the seizures and give him some quality of life, they removed part of his brain. He can't overcome this, but he can manage it. He works in a manual labor job under close supervision and has lists to keep him on track since he can't really remember anything for very long. He lives with someone who helps supervise him. He'll never be rich and successful, because he's simply not capable of overcoming the cards he was dealt.

The views coming across from some people in this thread are that successful people are that way only because of their hard work (never any luck), and those that are not successful it's their own fault for not working hard enough to overcome obstacles.

I'm arguing life is never that simple.
Nobody will argue with you about this.

I am arguing that one is better off not counting on luck.
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  #113  
Old 12.08.2019, 15:10
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Re: Do poor kids have a chance

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You forgot the thread where he shared about it? His intellect is brilliant, had to overcome other stuff to succeed. I think we need to congratulate.
Oh, I'm sure he wants a pat on the head from all of us.

Seriously, wtaf MC?
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  #114  
Old 12.08.2019, 15:17
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Re: Do poor kids have a chance

It's not difficult to be happy for somebody else.

As opposed to discredit their achievement by merely being lucky.

Even if I didn't know people who share here, I wouldn't automatically assume that people's achievements are a mere coincidence. They rarely ever are.
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  #115  
Old 12.08.2019, 15:21
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Re: Do poor kids have a chance

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It's not difficult to be happy for somebody else.

As opposed to discredit their achievement by merely being lucky.

Even if I didn't know people who share here, I wouldn't automatically assume that people's achievements are a mere coincidence. They rarely ever are.
Oh no, you don't get off that easily. Tell us more about the edit of your quote of 3Wishes' post and your allegation that a fellow EF member has "learning difficulties".

I can't wait to read you wriggle your way out of this one!
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  #116  
Old 12.08.2019, 15:22
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Re: Do poor kids have a chance

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Nobody will argue with you about this.

I am arguing that one is better off not counting on luck.
Of course you can't "count on luck". What you can't control is an event of bad luck or even a run of it. Something which changes the course of your life either in a major or a minor way.

Maybe look at it as "fate" rather than luck.

I think the thread has lost sight of the point, to be honest. If you are born into a poor background you have a much less chance (not zero chance) of rising above it to a top position. Even if you have talent, genius intelligence or an inferno of determination; unless you get that lucky break you're stuffed.

On the other hand, if you are born into wealth, connections and privilege you perhaps don't need to be exceptional because you already have that lucky break.

I think this is why these talent shows like X Factor are so popular these days. Half the "entertainment" is the back-story of the poor sod who has been through all this shit but still sings like an angel or can walk on Lego pieces whilst juggling puppies.

People like to dream that they would also have a lucky break, buying into the "follow your dreams" Disney stuff.
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  #117  
Old 12.08.2019, 15:40
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Re: Do poor kids have a chance

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Of course you can't "count on luck". What you can't control is an event of bad luck or even a run of it. Something which changes the course of your life either in a major or a minor way.

Maybe look at it as "fate" rather than luck.

I think the thread has lost sight of the point, to be honest. If you are born into a poor background you have a much less chance (not zero chance) of rising above it to a top position. Even if you have talent, genius intelligence or an inferno of determination; unless you get that lucky break you're stuffed.

On the other hand, if you are born into wealth, connections and privilege you perhaps don't need to be exceptional because you already have that lucky break.

I think this is why these talent shows like X Factor are so popular these days. Half the "entertainment" is the back-story of the poor sod who has been through all this shit but still sings like an angel or can walk on Lego pieces whilst juggling puppies.

People like to dream that they would also have a lucky break, buying into the "follow your dreams" Disney stuff.
I think that's why I like Swiss edu system. It is close to the one back home. Super realistic. No Cinderella stories. Everybody is poor there, on top, unlike in CH. The perception of poverty is another problem, parallel to a sense of achievement. But I think if one feels unfortunate they are less likely to achieve, no matter how really poor they are.
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  #118  
Old 12.08.2019, 15:45
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Re: Do poor kids have a chance

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I think that's why I like Swiss edu system. It is close to the one back home. Super realistic. No Cinderella stories. Everybody is poor there, on top, unlike in CH. The perception of poverty is another problem, parallel to a sense of achievement. But I think if one feels unfortunate they are less likely to achieve, no matter how really poor they are.
But people in Switzerland are no more immune to being dealt a shit hand in luck/fate as those kids in your Czech Republic, are they?

Granted, here in Europe you are probably in a better position if you are really floored by fate, rather than in other parts of the world but if you measure your life in terms of your bank balance and age of retirement and you have narrowed your options by having one goal in life and leaving "edu" early, you are opening yourself up to massive risk.
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  #119  
Old 12.08.2019, 15:54
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Re: Do poor kids have a chance

There's an interesting book on this subject, to be released as a film next year directed by Ron Howard and starring Glenn Close.

Hillbilly Elegy: A Memoir of a Family and Culture in Crisis
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  #120  
Old 12.08.2019, 15:58
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Re: Do poor kids have a chance

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But people in Switzerland are no more immune to being dealt a shit hand in luck/fate as those kids in your Czech Republic, are they?

Granted, here in Europe you are probably in a better position if you are really floored by fate, rather than in other parts of the world but if you measure your life in terms of your bank balance and age of retirement and you have narrowed your options by having one goal in life and leaving "edu" early, you are opening yourself up to massive risk.
I wouldn't say CH mindset is fan of risk but they are not fan of any talk about luck, either. If you want to start a conversation with somebody back home about how lucky or unlucky they are, they will give you a list of steps they took to get out of an unfortunate situation. I wouldn't ask them if poor kids have a chance. There is prety dominant sense of poverty there and people do not wait for their chances.
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