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View Poll Results: Do poor kids have a chance?
Yes! Even as much as white ones. 2 25.00%
No! White kids are better. 1 12.50%
I don't give a .... 2 25.00%
I thing Biden will be a great president. 3 37.50%
Voters: 8. You may not vote on this poll

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  #121  
Old 12.08.2019, 16:05
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Re: Do poor kids have a chance

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I wouldn't say CH mindset is fan of risk but they are not fan of any talk about luck, either.
I didn't say they were fans of risk. No idea what their view on luck is either. Can't say I've spoken to every single Swiss person to find out... Given that they tend to stay in education, and insure themselves to the eyeballs I would guess their view on risk is pretty dim.

As for not talking about luck, in card shops you can't move for knickknacks with ladybirds and pigs on them, zum Glück and Daumen drücken!

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If you want to start a conversation with somebody back home about how lucky or unlucky they are, they will give you a list of steps they took to get out of an unfortunate situation. I wouldn't ask them if poor kids have a chance. There is pretty dominant sense of poverty there and people do not wait for their chances.
Why is there poverty then?
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  #122  
Old 12.08.2019, 16:27
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Re: Do poor kids have a chance

That's complex. It is not bad luck, though.

The Swiss stay in edu because they have to, really. The requirements EFers nag about are even harder on locals, for a lot of careers.

I talk about luck with locals all the time. "Get your work done, you will not get a good grade you want just out of luck". A lot of kids chose real jobs/apprenticeships instead of studies too and succeed. Create their own luck.

Lucky charms? Like superstition kinda things? There isn't a thing hanging on your set of keys? On a car mirror? I am not into this but it's a fun kitch.
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  #123  
Old 12.08.2019, 16:32
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Re: Do poor kids have a chance

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There's an interesting book on this subject, to be released as a film next year directed by Ron Howard and starring Glenn Close.

Hillbilly Elegy: A Memoir of a Family and Culture in Crisis
I hope the movie is as good as the book.
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  #124  
Old 12.08.2019, 16:34
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Re: Do poor kids have a chance

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That's complex. It is not bad luck, though.
Nice dodge...

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The Swiss stay in edu because they have to, really. The requirements EFers nag about are even harder on locals, for a lot of careers.
Sorry, I have no idea what this means.

The Swiss "stay in edu" because it's open to them and there's a massive safety net making sure they have every opportunity.

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I talk about luck with locals all the time. "Get your work done, you will not get a good grade you want just out of luck".
Correct, unless you are doing multiple choice. That's not the luck I was talking about but, hey.

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A lot of kids chose real jobs/apprenticeships instead of studies too and succeed.
There's the "real jobs" reference again. Do neither you nor FMF actually have a definition for this mystical career choice? You could go the whole hog and start waffling on about the "School of Hard Knocks" and "University of Life" to complete your transition into a disgruntled pensioner.

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Lucky charms? Like superstition kinda things? There isn't a thing hanging on your set of keys? On a car mirror? I am not into this but it's a fun kitsch.
Dunno. Whatever floats your boat.
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  #125  
Old 12.08.2019, 17:10
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Re: Do poor kids have a chance

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Nice dodge...
Nice dodge? As if I was not feeling like discussing something? Of course not, that's a right I reserve to have.
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  #126  
Old 12.08.2019, 17:24
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Re: Do poor kids have a chance

I feel the need to start a list of Real Jobs so that those of use who have, um, Fantasy? Fake? Unreal
?Jobs know what we are missing out on by not forging our own Luck in the Workshop of Life, bending our will on the Anvil of Opportunity etc etc.


Real Job #1:


.
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  #127  
Old 12.08.2019, 17:26
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Re: Do poor kids have a chance

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The Swiss stay in edu because they have to, really.
Most I know who did (got their PhD), did so to put off doing military service (I also know some Germans who did that) or because they were crap at their jobs.

Tom
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  #128  
Old 12.08.2019, 18:04
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Re: Do poor kids have a chance

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I feel the need to start a list of Real Jobs so that those of use who have, um, Fantasy? Fake? Unreal
?Jobs know what we are missing out on by not forging our own Luck in the Workshop of Life, bending our will on the Anvil of Opportunity etc etc.


Real Job #1:


.
Let me start then .. I think I get the sentiment here..

Real jobs : Plumber, Carpenter, Truck Driver, Butcher, Car Mechanic, Gardener..

I've found myself say it over the years, I miss those days when i had a real job and went home filthy dirty and tired, like I'd really worked and built something.. Back when i was an electrician on building sites. I could say today I installed a lightning conductor on a 50 story high tower block.. Or I installed the big fancy lights in an operating theatre or the alarm system in a bank vault.

Now I go home, the kids ask what i did today .. And well, not much I can really make sound exciting.
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  #129  
Old 12.08.2019, 20:19
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Re: Do poor kids have a chance

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Now I go home, the kids ask what i did today .. And well, not much I can really make sound exciting.
Yep.

A "Real Job": One where the fruits of your efforts take time, effort, and understanding to reverse.
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  #130  
Old 12.08.2019, 20:31
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Re: Do poor kids have a chance

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Real jobs : Plumber, Carpenter, Truck Driver, Butcher, Car Mechanic, Gardener..
Yes, car mechanic paid me USD 15/hour back in '79 (black), 4x more than I was getting at McDs (I was 18+ and worked odd hours, so I got 2x minimum wage). Mainly bike mechanic these last decades, nobody touches my bikes! (except a couple guys who trust me to work on theirs and their customers')

Also built a house with my father, did all the wiring and 1/2 the plumbing.

Didn't do truck driver, but gardener, sure.

Tom
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  #131  
Old 13.08.2019, 13:52
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Re: Do poor kids have a chance

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Yep.

A "Real Job": One where the fruits of your efforts take time, effort, and understanding to reverse.
So...

Medical professionals
Educators
Engineers

???
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  #132  
Old 13.08.2019, 13:58
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Re: Do poor kids have a chance

I'm waiting with baited breath (and slight apprehension) to find out what the hive mind classes as "unreal" jobs...
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  #133  
Old 13.08.2019, 14:02
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Re: Do poor kids have a chance

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So...


Engineers

???

fake job


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  #134  
Old 13.08.2019, 14:10
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Re: Do poor kids have a chance

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Lovely future president, exactly when you thought there cannot be anyone worse than Trump. lol
Well it's one statement vs oh I don't know, about 2 million or so that are either highly questionable or [insert any adjective derived from some "ism" or other as we've heard it all] or outright lies. Decent score in my book for sure.
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  #135  
Old 13.08.2019, 14:34
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fake job


I suspect that one failed Engineering school.
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  #136  
Old 13.08.2019, 14:35
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Re: Do poor kids have a chance

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So...

Medical professionals
Educators
Engineers

???
Different kind of real jobs..

It's not a fair comparison and we'll never all agree on what jobs are more valuable or more real or more difficult etc..
Is a nurse more valuable than the cashier at COOP.. Well if you're sick maybe yes, if you're standing at the checkout and nobody is there, maybe no. Everyone has a place.

I could never be a teacher, i have neither the skill, patience nor empathy.. Being a doctor never interested me, being a laywer, too much paper work.. etc.. But it doesn't mean that I don't respect them or think that they are valuable.
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  #137  
Old 13.08.2019, 14:43
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Re: Do poor kids have a chance

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Different kind of real jobs..

It's not a fair comparison and we'll never all agree on what jobs are more valuable or more real or more difficult etc..
Is a nurse more valuable than the cashier at COOP.. Well if you're sick maybe yes, if you're standing at the checkout and nobody is there, maybe no. Everyone has a place.

I could never be a teacher, i have neither the skill, patience nor empathy.. Being a doctor never interested me, being a laywer, too much paper work.. etc.. But it doesn't mean that I don't respect them or think that they are valuable.
It's a bit weird that jobs are being pigeon-holed as "real" and "unreal", as well as "valuable" and more or less "difficult".

If you are working in a job, be it a newspaper delivery kid or a brain surgeon and everything in between, it can't be anything other than a "real" job, can it?
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  #138  
Old 13.08.2019, 15:23
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Re: Do poor kids have a chance

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So...

Medical professionals
Educators
Engineers

???
How easy do you think it is to reverse the effects of a life saved, a concept learned? Most engineers are occupied with the making of things, if sometimes indirectly.

Last edited by JagWaugh; 13.08.2019 at 18:13. Reason: tyops (I blame my hopne)
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  #139  
Old 13.08.2019, 15:25
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Re: Do poor kids have a chance

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So...

Medical professionals
Educators
Engineers

???
Definitely not educators, those long holidays attract the lazy
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I'm waiting with baited breath (and slight apprehension) to find out what the hive mind classes as "unreal" jobs...
Anything that Trump can do
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  #140  
Old 13.08.2019, 15:32
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Re: Do poor kids have a chance

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Definitely not educators, those long holidays attract the lazy
You know you can't diss edu peeps, innit.
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