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View Poll Results: Do poor kids have a chance?
Yes! Even as much as white ones. 2 25.00%
No! White kids are better. 1 12.50%
I don't give a .... 2 25.00%
I thing Biden will be a great president. 3 37.50%
Voters: 8. You may not vote on this poll

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  #141  
Old 13.08.2019, 15:39
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Re: Do poor kids have a chance

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Howeasy do you think it is to reverse the effects of a life saved, a concept learned. Most engineers are occupied with the making of things, if sometimes indirectly.
Pathologists do it all the time. My engineer doesn't make stuff directly, he's diversified! As for learned concepts... how do you think they are taught? Component parts, baby, just like one of your cars.


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Definitely not educators, those long holidays attract the lazy
You forgot the short days, light work load and working with kids.

#not a clue #fetchFMFabiggerspoon #couldn'tcopeinamillionyears


I agree Sandgrounder, any job is a real job. Some folks seem to think, however, that some have less value. For some reason.
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  #142  
Old 13.08.2019, 15:48
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Re: Do poor kids have a chance

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It's a bit weird that jobs are being pigeon-holed as "real" and "unreal", as well as "valuable" and more or less "difficult".

If you are working in a job, be it a newspaper delivery kid or a brain surgeon and everything in between, it can't be anything other than a "real" job, can it?
Ask the Kardashians if they have real jobs?
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  #143  
Old 13.08.2019, 15:56
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Re: Do poor kids have a chance

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Ask the Kardashians if they have real jobs?
I had a similar conversation with my mum at Christmas who was herrumphing about footballers earning silly money every week for kicking a bag of air around a field when xyz profession was scratching a living.

To a certain degree I agree it's daft but then that's just attaching a value to it. You could argue that the Kardashians are talentless but then you'd have to define talent and put a value to it.

It's all highly subjective but as long as people are willing to pour money into vacuous nobodies for wearing their clothes or pouting at cameras, or even kicking a bag of air around a field it's, by definition, a "real" job.
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  #144  
Old 13.08.2019, 16:04
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Re: Do poor kids have a chance

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i had a similar conversation with my mum at christmas who was herrumphing about footballers earning silly money every week for kicking a bag of air around a field when xyz profession was scratching a living.

To a certain degree i agree it's daft but then that's just attaching a value to it. You could argue that the kardashians are talentless but then you'd have to define talent and put a value to it.

It's all highly subjective but as long as people are willing to pour money into vacuous nobodies for not wearing their clothes or pouting at cameras, or even kicking a bag of air around a field it's, by definition, a "real" job.
ftfy.
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  #145  
Old 13.08.2019, 16:39
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Re: Do poor kids have a chance

Going back to the original post - Mr. Biden is...kinda right. There is a terrible persception that poor are not as smart as wealthier kids and depending on where you are from, there can be a racial component to that.


And a surrogate of smart is access to all the wonderful educational opportunites richer kids have vs. poor linking to performance on standarize tests and so on.


Look, I grew up in a town on Long Island called Massapequa. In the 1980's you could call that Lilly White town. Now a part of that town was a bit poorer - same zip code. And more "colored" - yup..more Black people so called African Americans.


What did my school district do? It drew a line ..a school district line ..down a part of the town such that those "minority" families/kids, living in the same zip code, under the same tax jurisdiction, under the same jurisdiction of our volunteer fire department (which my dad was apart of), had to go a predominantly poor, high minority, school district, ..called Amityville.


The predominanty minority, poorer kids living in view of my wealthy dominated (99 percent white studdents) Junior High School had to stare directly across the street at a school they couldn't go to, despite being in the same zip code. That school, my high school, had a ham radio club (full tower and antennas on top the roof), high end computer labs (for its day), a theather, sport facilities galore, science labs galore. Hell we even had freaking Archery lessons and did lilly white square dancing. I was in Drama club and for a while, shamefully, I did Golf. Yeah..hit a nancy little white ball in to holes (trust me today, I'd even slap and beat myself up for playing Golf).


Now, them poorer kids in rich Massapequa going to poor Amityville school district...they did NOT have equal chance. Valadictorian and losers like me who were top 10 percent of my class had a chance to go to Harvard. Hell even to the best school on Long Island. Top 10 percent at Amityville, passing same standardize tests....they ain't going to Harvard. Even if they worked hard, past the same standardize state exams...they ain't going to Harvard. Why? you see the schools are ranked in the US. So weathtier schools...well do good...and Harvard. Less wealthy schools, are linked to poor ranks...do well, no Harvard. They ain't no ham radio clubs, or drama clubs, or art clubs or golf clubs or best in class computer labs and and and...


So...by the LUCK of being on the WRONG side of the street, int the same Zip code of a town...fate was kinda determined, and you want to tell me them Amityville kids have a chance? yeah right.


So back to Joe, Joe probaby grew up my side of the street. Look across at the socalled Poor kids, who..lived in the same town going to the poor school. And to the uneducated, you dont think they don't have access..no..you think ...they're dumber. Not as bright..and ...well maybe even below you. And you start to see where White Priveledge starts...right??


Anyways, I don't see this to be a case in CH but this is a wealth country probably with the drama clubs, and golf clubs and computer labs and and and..... so don't tell me about poor here unless i'm missing something.


Anyways, my two cents - you have exceptions but look at my example and you start to see the issues emerge ...all the associations and consequences and you start to see how in the US you get to such horrible polarizations, views and biases. One town, 2 school districts separated by wealth and poverty...and race.


Now - we did have a joke ..its totaly politically incorrect but the school in Amityville was painted white. So a local joke was.."hey them black kids go to a white school!" and....well that's where it starts eh?


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  #146  
Old 13.08.2019, 16:57
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Re: Do poor kids have a chance

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Definitely not educators, those long holidays attract the lazy
Grrrrrrrrrrr

There are doofuses working and volunteering during the hols.

I get where you are coming from. I know schools that purposely hire experts without edu degrees as opposed to hiring teachers.

Last edited by MusicChick; 13.08.2019 at 17:09.
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  #147  
Old 17.08.2019, 00:21
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Re: Do poor kids have a chance

Poor kids have a chance (answering the thread topic).

It's a poor chance ... but a few of the billions manage to break through, and we often hear about them. Many of the others get by, making enough to keep a roof over their heads and have regular meals. Many, however, are stuck in poverty for their entire lives not due to lack of effort, but because they worked hard but never got that lucky break which fully rewarded their efforts.
Sure, many of those who break through to "success" from poverty struggled hard for years before they got their break - but those who remain in poverty are often struggling hard every single day and never getting a single step ahead of where they started.

Having a secure start in life gives you choices from an early age, which you can use to get further ahead more easily.

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Definitely not educators, those long holidays attract the lazy
Not sure if you really believe this, or are just trolling ...

As a teacher I'm regularly in at school on the weekend to ensure corrections are done and the lessons are planned for the following week, and the classroom itself is in order.

I also come in several days in each two-week break. During which, of course, taking an actual holiday costs more than if I could take time off away from peak holiday times.

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You forgot the short days, light work load and working with kids.
Working with kids is fine. It's a handful of the parents who cause the most headaches for teachers ... those who think they are qualified to give instructions (not just advice) to people who have trained and worked for years in a specialised area when they themselves have had a kid for a few years and see them for about 5% of their waking hours ...

I've yet to see if I have any parents like that this year, but I've had a few in my decades of teaching, including some who made their children lie to their teachers and friends - just to get away a few days earlier on their holidays ...

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I agree Sandgrounder, any job is a real job. Some folks seem to think, however, that some have less value. For some reason.
I read a definition of a "real" job once ... basically remove all people who perform that job and see if society functions better, worse, or the same ... if it gets worse, it's a "real" job.
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  #148  
Old 17.08.2019, 00:39
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Re: Do poor kids have a chance

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Poor kids have a chance (answering the thread topic).

It's a poor chance ... but a few of the billions manage to break through, and we often hear about them. Many of the others get by, making enough to keep a roof over their heads and have regular meals. Many, however, are stuck in poverty for their entire lives not due to lack of effort, but because they worked hard but never got that lucky break which fully rewarded their efforts.
This. Thank you.

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I read a definition of a "real" job once ... basically remove all people who perform that job and see if society functions better, worse, or the same ... if it gets worse, it's a "real" job.
There's an interesting article in the Economist, posted by Sandgrounder here https://www.englishforum.ch/3091889-post42.html about useful or non-useful work, and what it does to the psyche.

In a hospital, I once saw the new board go up, of images of all the staff members of a department.

The Head Doctor's picture was mounted besides that of the Department Cleaner. He nodded and said: "Look, wow, yes, I get to have my picture next to the most important person on this ward!" A senior nurse, on hearing this, snapped at him: "Oh, don't be so pseudo-modest!" And without hesitating he answered: "But I was being serious. She is the most important person working here. When I go on leave for two weeks, the rest of you keep the ward running without anyone working in my place. If she's away for two days, with no substitute, we can close the ward completely."
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  #149  
Old 17.08.2019, 08:28
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Re: Do poor kids have a chance

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In a hospital, I once saw the new board go up, of images of all the staff members of a department.

The Head Doctor's picture was mounted besides that of the Department Cleaner. He nodded and said: "Look, wow, yes, I get to have my picture next to the most important person on this ward!" A senior nurse, on hearing this, snapped at him: "Oh, don't be so pseudo-modest!" And without hesitating he answered: "But I was being serious. She is the most important person working here. When I go on leave for two weeks, the rest of you keep the ward running without anyone working in my place. If she's away for two days, with no substitute, we can close the ward completely."
Nobody is irreplaceable, no-one. It can take some time to find a replacement for say a highly qualified surgeon etc but you will find a way, especially if money are not an issue (it's not always related to money btw).....the more some people believe an entire system will collapse without them, the less inclined to keep up with their field and best peers in the field they are. They know..... There are always new generations of specialists or professionals eager to perform, why think people are irreplaceable, it's like believing we are not able to progress.
Acknowledging someone's contribution is one thing, putting people on pedestals as if everything will collapse without them is wrong IMO.

And btw, a good hospital cleaner that is properly trained and follows all hygiene protocols is also very important in the grand scheme of things. Every job is a real job as long as you are payed a salary for it and can put food on the table for you and your family. We are small parts in a huge social mechanism and we should probably be aware of it, otherwise potential unemployment, economic recessions etc will hit us like a train. It is quite revealing to see how many real jobs are cut off in times of fiscal austerity or economic crisis. Researchers, for instance, apparently are no longer vital. And I can give a lot of examples for how relative things are.

But to answer a question that wasn't quite the main issue in the OP, yes, I believe poor kids can do well in life, but not under every circumstance or in any place on earth.

Last edited by greenmount; 17.08.2019 at 08:50.
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