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-   -   Do poor kids have a chance (https://www.englishforum.ch/international-affairs-politics/293466-do-poor-kids-have-chance.html)

robBob 10.08.2019 09:38

Do poor kids have a chance
 
According to Biden they do.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/09/u...oor-kids.html?

:rolleyes:

slammer 10.08.2019 10:25

Re: Do poor kids have a chance
 
Nobody understands American politics, just ignore them, they may go away.

greenmount 10.08.2019 10:34

Re: Do poor kids have a chance
 
Because the white kids cannot be poor or what?

Lovely future president, exactly when you thought there cannot be anyone worse than Trump. lol

Rjellsch 10.08.2019 10:35

Re: Do poor kids have a chance
 
It depends on why they are poor. Some people are poor because life served up some difficult situations or events. Others are poor because they and most around them have a history of making bad decisions and showing questionable judgment. Chance is strongly against those in the second category.

k_and_e 10.08.2019 12:46

Re: Do poor kids have a chance
 
Depends where and when you are born. You can better be born poor in Switzerland than born middle class in most countries of the world.

Same for timing. If are born during a war or your graduation age is during a huge economic depression, it will seriously affect your chances in life.

greenmount 10.08.2019 14:46

Re: Do poor kids have a chance
 
I have found a good article on Mr. Biden's latest gaffe....and it would be unfair to blame him, particularly him...it is how many (middle class) Americans really think.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...-gaffe/595855/

Quote:

Another Joe Biden gaffe: “We have this notion that somehow if you’re poor, you cannot do it. Poor kids are just as bright and just as talented as white kids.” That was yesterday, before the Asian and Latino Commission in Des Moines, Iowa. And Biden knew it was one—he immediately tried to clarify with, “Wealthy kids, black kids, Asian kids. No, I really mean it. But think how we think about it. We think how we’re going to dumb it down. They can do anything anybody else can do, given a shot.”


But still—“white” kids versus “poor” ones. The reason even Biden’s fans are cringing at this remark is that it implies an equation between being poor and being a person of color, and perhaps also that all high-achieving students are white.

And it isn’t the first time Biden has let slip sociological assumptions of this kind. Who can forget Biden sunnily crowing that Barack Obama, when first running for president, was a godsend in being a “mainstream” African American who combined the traits of being “articulate and bright and clean.”


Besides the memory-friendly ABC sequence of the words, that remark was almost uncannily complete in summing up age-old stereotypes about what it is to be black. Few educated black people are unfamiliar with being called “articulate” for simply speaking about as confidently as their white equivalents; the veiled notion is that the black norm is to be somewhat ungifted with words. Then “bright” harbors a quiet yet pitiless condescension. (After the acclaimed theater director Harold Prince’s passing last week, I think of when the playboy Bobby in Company says to a flight attendant he just slept with but is ambivalent about seeing again, “Look, you’re a very special girl,” and “not just because you’re bright.”) As to noting that Obama is “clean,” little needs to even be said.


Read: Joe Biden’s endless search for the middle on race

Biden’s underlying schema was the one minted in the era of Guess Who’s Coming to Dinner, where being accomplished, poised, and well-spoken was seen as remarkable in a black man; in white men, by contrast, those traits were seen as signs of basic middle-class maturity. That movie was a good while ago now, as was Biden’s birth, and few would tar him as a bigot for harboring these quiet assumptions, which were once common. Indeed, they are still common. If America were completely past the notion that articulateness (in standard English) has a ticklish relationship to black authenticity, then it would be hard to explain why debates about the issue still crop up endlessly.

The “articulate, bright, and clean” moment wasn’t pretty, but if anything, the unprettiness it revealed was our own, not just Biden’s.

The same case can be made for this latest flub. In equating poverty with not being white, Biden would seem to be displaying what many would consider high wokeness catechism.

On race and socioeconomics, the enlightened American these days is asked to wangle a peculiar sort of equipoise. For example, we are never to discount the black community’s achievement by “racializing” poverty. We are revolted when President Donald Trump implies that struggling black communities are uniquely degraded, almost perverted landscapes. These days, the concept of underclass is perhaps more race-neutral than ever before, in view of countless mostly white areas ravaged by deindustrialization and the opioid epidemic.


Read: Is Joe Biden “too old”?

But then we are also to maintain a sense of black Americans as a singularly burdened people, suffering from a persistent wage gap with whites, overrepresented in low-quality schools, and mired in a web of circumstances founded in and ever propelled by a deathless kind of white supremacy. No one denies that other groups suffer as well, such as Latinos and Native Americans. However, the tacit idea is that black Americans are a special case, caught “between hell and high water” by Hurricane Katrina, to use the deft title of Michael Eric Dyson’s book; ever the “faces at the bottom of the well,” to quote Derrick Bell; and owed reparations for the slavery and legal segregation their ancestors endured.

As such, how many among us can claim not to operate upon a certain conception of privileged whites on top and people of color on the bottom? We all know it’s an oversimplification, what with some of those articulate, bright, and clean black people up top—or East and South Asian kids overrepresented at elite public high schools in New York, such as Stuyvesant—and poor whites like the ones depicted in J. D. Vance’s Hillbilly Elegy at the bottom. But overall, white people are always ahead, “maintaining” their “privilege” upon the necks of the various-hued subalterns down below.

With all the heat Biden has been taking for views on race minted in another time, we might see it as an advance that he made a remark that, in all of its clumsiness, would appear to take a page from progressive scripture. If it’s really so wrong of him to operate upon a thumbnail sketch of white kids as rich and kids of color as poor, then many might consider assessing the essentialism in their own mental schema of how America operates.

NotAllThere 10.08.2019 15:20

Re: Do poor kids have a chance
 
Do poor kids have a chance
Quote:

Originally Posted by robBob (Post 3089830)
Yes! Even as much as white ones.

Only non-whites are poor then?
Quote:

No! White kids are better.
Better = richer?

Your poll questions are nonsense. Or are you merely echoing Biden's confusion?

MusicChick 10.08.2019 15:52

Re: Do poor kids have a chance
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by k_and_e (Post 3089867)
Depends where and when you are born. You can better be born poor in Switzerland than born middle class in most countries of the world.

Same for timing. If are born during a war or your graduation age is during a huge economic depression, it will seriously affect your chances in life.

This doesn't have to be true, there is a really good French psychiatry research done on inequality and success/ambition/achievements of underpriviledged vs. priviledged kids. Unsurprisingly, a sense of entitlement and wealth can damage children's survival and success rates. Those who have to work hard through catastrophies and miserable and challenging conditions seem to have a better sense of life and reality, can achieve a lot more than those who's rich parents shower them with undeserved money and unearned opportunities. I like Cyrulnik. Lovely person.

I wknder how Biden would define a poor child. I read this morning on donations and funds made for "non-white artists". I wonder how artistic criteria changes next few decades.

Guest 10.08.2019 16:15

Re: Do poor kids have a chance
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MusicChick (Post 3089941)
This doesn't have to be true, there is a really good French psychiatry research done on inequality and success/ambition/achievements of underpriviledged vs. priviledged kids. Unsurprisingly, a sense of entitlement and wealth can damage children's survival and success rates. Those who have to work hard through catastrophies and miserable and challenging conditions seem to have a better sense of life and reality, can achieve a lot more than those who's rich parents shower them with undeserved money and unearned opportunities. I like Cyrulnik. Lovely person.

I wknder how Biden would define a poor child. I read this morning on donations and funds made for "non-white artists". I wonder how artistic criteria changes next few decades.

What you've said misses the point of what K and E said. It's not about individual drive or ethos or creativity, but often sheer dumb luck whether or not your parents can afford to feed and educate you.

Guest 10.08.2019 16:32

Re: Do poor kids have a chance
 
Quote:

What you've said misses the point of what K and E said. It's not about individual drive or ethos or creativity, but often sheer dumb luck whether or not your parents can afford to feed and educate you.
Parents who have special needs or disabilities or illness or their child/children have are often thrown into poverty and unable to escape it.

Poverty, and its many causes, is largely misunderstood.

robBob 10.08.2019 22:00

Re: Do poor kids have a chance
 
OUR BEST DAYS STILL LIE AHEAD!

https://joebiden.com

I think Joe will make a great president. :cool:

MusicChick 10.08.2019 22:10

Re: Do poor kids have a chance
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by robBob (Post 3090027)
OUR BEST DAYS STILL LIE AHEAD!

https://joebiden.com

I think Joe will make a great president. :cool:

Good for you for coming out with your personal conviction. I don't know him. Like his family photos from the 70s. And dislike that he identifies himself with what he's NOT going to do. I guess they all will do that.

k_and_e 10.08.2019 22:37

Re: Do poor kids have a chance
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by robBob (Post 3090027)
OUR BEST DAYS STILL LIE AHEAD!

https://joebiden.com

I think Joe will make a great president. :cool:

The guy is 76. Someone who is the past shouldn't drive the future.

3Wishes 10.08.2019 22:42

Re: Do poor kids have a chance
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by k_and_e (Post 3090031)
The guy is 76. Someone who is the past shouldn't drive the future.

Trump is 73 or so and still has plenty of young supporters. Sanders is 77 (78 next month) and also has a ton of young supporters. ;)

k_and_e 10.08.2019 22:45

Re: Do poor kids have a chance
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 3Wishes (Post 3090033)
Trump is 73 or so and still has plenty of young supporters. Sanders is 77 (78 next month) and also has a ton of young supporters. ;)

But do you consider one of them to be anywhere to closely capable? 3 guys that are so power hungry that they run for one of the most demanding jobs in their seventies.

3Wishes 10.08.2019 23:01

Re: Do poor kids have a chance
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by k_and_e (Post 3090034)
But do you consider one of them to be anywhere to closely capable? 3 guys that are so power hungry that they run for one of the most demanding jobs in their seventies.

No, but if so many young people do then...I dunno where the country is headed.

MusicChick 10.08.2019 23:36

Re: Do poor kids have a chance
 
Nobody knows where any country is headed, tbh. One thing I like about the US politics is that it is so intense, one feels things are moving forward, even with older candidates than people would like to see. Better than insane corruption elsewhere, or sleepwalking intelos.

Guest 11.08.2019 00:01

Re: Do poor kids have a chance
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MusicChick (Post 3090043)
Nobody knows where any country is headed, tbh. One thing I like about the US politics is that it is so intense, one feels things are moving forward, even with older candidates than people would like to see. Better than insane corruption elsewhere, or sleepwalking intelos.

Sleepwalking intelos?

Is that an insomniac Greek?

MusicChick 11.08.2019 12:20

Re: Do poor kids have a chance
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by robBob (Post 3089830)
According to Biden they do.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/09/u...oor-kids.html?

:rolleyes:

According to W. von Humboldt they do: How a person masters his fate is more important than what his fate is.

He was a great politician, too: The government is best which makes itself unnecessary.

Guest 11.08.2019 12:44

Re: Do poor kids have a chance
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MusicChick (Post 3090119)
According to W. von Humboldt they do: How a person masters his fate is more important than what his fate is.

And again this has no bearing on those kids who are too young to have any control over what isn't in the cupboards.

It is naive and simplistic at best, deliberately obtuse and provocative at worst. Which is it? Do you have any real understanding of the way millions of children have to live through no fault of their own?


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