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  #101  
Old 01.10.2019, 09:09
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Re: The threat of Climate Change is bigger than our angst with Greta Thunberg

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My attitude? Not really methinks, will knowing about and accepting climate change stop you from driving one mm less with your SUV, will it make you think twice before buying fruit or vegetables that have been flown in from some far flung end of the earth? When you bought your last cellphone did you give a think about the cobalt mines in the Congo. Your last shrimp cocktail was made with shrimps caught in the Pacific, frozen and flown to Migros, or caught in the Northsea and flown to Morocco for shelling and then flown back. They get more airmiles than I do these days.
You canīt say my or anybodyīs attitude is bad when you open your eyes and see what is around you and realize that there is nothing you can do that makes even a bit of difference.
What gets me is that it is all talk and talk and talk and in the end things stay the way they are. Buisness as usual.
To answer your question; knowing about climate change has changed my behaviour. I eat way less meat, use public transport more (whenever possible), I do consider where my groceries come from and I tried to offset some carbon due to an upcoming flight home recently.
For sure my lifestyle still generates carbon but I've reduced it easily without negatively impacting my or my families quality of life.
I can and I will say your attitude is bad. It's a total cop out.
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  #102  
Old 01.10.2019, 09:11
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Re: The threat of Climate Change is bigger than our angst with Greta Thunberg

If you want to reverse climate change correctly, then we need to cull humans.

No amount of going vegan or walking everywhere in Western Europe makes any difference, except to your conscience and virtue.
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  #103  
Old 01.10.2019, 09:22
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Re: The threat of Climate Change is bigger than our angst with Greta Thunberg

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I don't eat shrimp cocktails... now I feel like I'm some kind of activist.
Ah, stop virtue signalling!
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I fully agree. Her actions are raising awareness and that is a really positive thing in my opinion.
Good to raise awareness, bad to be projecting fear. Bad for her personally to be in the spotlight at such a young age. I think she is being exploited.

Yes, she should be back in Sweden at school. I neither like nor dislike her - but I wonder where she will be in 8 years time?
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  #104  
Old 01.10.2019, 09:31
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Re: The threat of Climate Change is bigger than our angst with Greta Thunberg

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To answer your question; knowing about climate change has changed my behaviour. I eat way less meat, use public transport more (whenever possible), I do consider where my groceries come from and I tried to offset some carbon due to an upcoming flight home recently.
For sure my lifestyle still generates carbon but I've reduced it easily without negatively impacting my or my families quality of life.
I can and I will say your attitude is bad. It's a total cop out.

I accept that. I can accept that a single person can change habits, I have too (I hope) but donīt you get the impression that it is tilting at windmills?

What does it matter when a few million or even a few hundred million people change a little smidgin of their habits here in the western world.
You and I are two of the priviliged few who can afford to drop a meal or two, or get a bus. But how many of the eight billion on this rock simply canīt afford not to. Can you, yes you get the USA to accept climate change, Get China and India to stop burning coal for energy?
I wonīt hold my breath.
And in my humble opinion this offsetting of carbon is just a modern form of the medieval Indulgence trade. It may sooth your conscience, but it doesnīt take a gram of CO2 out of the atmosphere.
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  #105  
Old 01.10.2019, 09:31
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Re: The threat of Climate Change is bigger than our angst with Greta Thunberg

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If you want to reverse climate change correctly, then we need to cull humans.

No amount of going vegan or walking everywhere in Western Europe makes any difference, except to your conscience and virtue.
Funny you think that way. The Western world eats up about 80% of the world's resources. Maybe some changes in your lifestyle (and mine, and others) could make a difference..
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  #106  
Old 01.10.2019, 09:32
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Re: The threat of Climate Change is bigger than our angst with Greta Thunberg

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If you want to reverse climate change correctly, then we need to cull humans.

No amount of going vegan or walking everywhere in Western Europe makes any difference, except to your conscience and virtue.

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  #107  
Old 01.10.2019, 09:33
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Re: The threat of Climate Change is bigger than our angst with Greta Thunberg

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If you want to reverse climate change correctly, then we need to cull humans.

No amount of going vegan or walking everywhere in Western Europe makes any difference, except to your conscience and virtue.
Changing the behaviour of humans would be preferable to culling them.
This behavioural change is what climate scientists are calling for to tackle climate change.
Perhaps you know better than they do though.
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  #108  
Old 01.10.2019, 09:37
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Re: The threat of Climate Change is bigger than our angst with Greta Thunberg

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I accept that. I can accept that a single person can change habits, I have too (I hope) but donīt you get the impression that it is tilting at windmills?

What does it matter when a few million or even a few hundred million people change a little smidgin of their habits here in the western world.
You and I are two of the priviliged few who can afford to drop a meal or two, or get a bus. But how many of the eight billion on this rock simply canīt afford not to. Can you, yes you get the USA to accept climate change, Get China and India to stop burning coal for energy?
I wonīt hold my breath.
And in my humble opinion this offsetting of carbon is just a modern form of the medieval Indulgence trade. It may sooth your conscience, but it doesnīt take a gram of CO2 out of the atmosphere.
I see your point and I fear there is a lot of substance to it. But I think if we don't make the little changes, we can't expect others too.

I also hope that if awareness keeps rising, more people make changes personally and demand changes from governments and so on. Governments will only change when (or if) they see a tide of public opinion for or against something.
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  #109  
Old 01.10.2019, 09:37
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Re: The threat of Climate Change is bigger than our angst with Greta Thunberg

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If you want to reverse climate change correctly, then we need to cull humans.

No amount of going vegan or walking everywhere in Western Europe makes any difference, except to your conscience and virtue.

At this point climate change will happen and the only way to stop it from getting out of control is as you say cull the population, say seven of the eight billion. But not only that, we will have to change from a high energy civilization to a low engery one, maybe have technology in the hands of a few elite super citizens and keep the rest in serfdom, use religion as a controling tool and impose strict birth control.
Otherwise Malthus will be proven correct, one way or another.




I am sure that could be a great script for a Netfilx original.
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  #110  
Old 01.10.2019, 09:44
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Re: The threat of Climate Change is bigger than our angst with Greta Thunberg

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I am sure that could be a great script for a Netfilx original.
Oh, so you don't really mean it.. Ok, good to know.


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I have mocked about this before but these Greta posts are getting tiresome for those who would
rather move on and talk about the environment.
OP, if you can still imagine that we can have sane, balanced discussions on EF......lol.
Anyway, keep going. I've got lots of work to do.
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  #111  
Old 01.10.2019, 09:47
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Re: The threat of Climate Change is bigger than our angst with Greta Thunberg

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Oh, so you don't really mean it.. Ok, good to know.
Do I.... Or donīt I?
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  #112  
Old 01.10.2019, 09:58
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Re: The threat of Climate Change is bigger than our angst with Greta Thunberg

There is a big discussion going on in Germany at the moment. As you probably know Germany wants to go green with a mixture of wind, solar, hydro and indulgences, sorry carbon offsets.
They are powering the nuke plants down and stopping the Kohleverstromung, the electrification of coal.

Now the large energy producers are suing the state for billions in lost profits and the taxpayer will foot the bill, as usual.
The huge solar panel manufacturing plant in Sachsen closed with a huge loss in investments and staff because the Chinese can make panels much cheaper. And then there is the issue with wind generators. It seems that they are not going to last the posutlated 10 to 15 year life time and the blades are not going to last even a few years.
I wonder how much the "Energiewende" will really cost in the end.
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  #113  
Old 01.10.2019, 10:19
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Re: The threat of Climate Change is bigger than our angst with Greta Thunberg

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Changing the behaviour of humans would be preferable to culling them.
This behavioural change is what climate scientists are calling for to tackle climate change.
Perhaps you know better than they do though.
well the next war will sort everything out, as soon as things start getting a bit tougher it'll pop along
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  #114  
Old 01.10.2019, 10:40
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Re: The threat of Climate Change is bigger than our angst with Greta Thunberg

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My attitude? Not really methinks, will knowing about and accepting climate change stop you from driving one mm less with your SUV, will it make you think twice before buying fruit or vegetables that have been flown in from some far flung end of the earth? When you bought your last cellphone did you give a think about the cobalt mines in the Congo. Your last shrimp cocktail was made with shrimps caught in the Pacific, frozen and flown to Migros, or caught in the Northsea and flown to Morocco for shelling and then flown back. They get more airmiles than I do these days.
You canīt say my or anybodyīs attitude is bad when you open your eyes and see what is around you and realize that there is nothing you can do that makes even a bit of difference.
What gets me is that it is all talk and talk and talk and in the end things stay the way they are. Buisness as usual.
Sigh, Slammer, always with these nonsense posts. It's not about getting groups of private individuals to change the way they travel to work or what they eat (though of course every little helps), i's about driving government-scale changes that materially affect climate change on a country-level. Greta is confronting world leaders in their own back yard and shaming them into further action. They don't like that, they are not used to that, and it is getting their attention as it does represent the voice of much of modern youth and their concerns. However, unlike most modern youth, Greta has a fearsome will and determination that allows her to stand in front of the most powerful people in the world and tell them they they aren't doing enough to avert disaster.

Anyone who has no appreciation for that is basically an imbecile.
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  #115  
Old 01.10.2019, 10:44
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Re: The threat of Climate Change is bigger than our angst with Greta Thunberg

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Sigh, Slammer, always with these nonsense posts. It's not about getting groups of private individuals to change the way they travel to work or what they eat (though of course every little helps), i's about driving government-scale changes that materially affect climate change on a country-level. Greta is confronting world leaders in their own back yard and shaming them into further action. They don't like that, they are not used to that, and it is getting their attention.
And if those governments/countries don't give a toss?

https://www.iflscience.com/editors-b...shing-his-work

Also see: China, USA, Australia, any religious/totalitarian state...
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  #116  
Old 01.10.2019, 10:46
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Re: The threat of Climate Change is bigger than our angst with Greta Thunberg

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And if those governments/countries don't give a toss?

https://www.iflscience.com/editors-b...shing-his-work

Also see: China, USA, Australia, any religious/totalitarian state...
Many governments do, and many will soon have to, 'give a toss'. It takes nothing away from what Greta is trying to achieve.
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  #117  
Old 01.10.2019, 11:01
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Re: The threat of Climate Change is bigger than our angst with Greta Thunberg

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There is a big discussion going on in Germany at the moment. As you probably know Germany wants to go green with a mixture of wind, solar, hydro and indulgences, sorry carbon offsets.
They are powering the nuke plants down and stopping the Kohleverstromung, the electrification of coal.

Now the large energy producers are suing the state for billions in lost profits and the taxpayer will foot the bill, as usual.
The huge solar panel manufacturing plant in Sachsen closed with a huge loss in investments and staff because the Chinese can make panels much cheaper. And then there is the issue with wind generators. It seems that they are not going to last the posutlated 10 to 15 year life time and the blades are not going to last even a few years.
I wonder how much the "Energiewende" will really cost in the end.
Yup.

Nuclear is just about the most carbon neutral of all power sources, second only to hydro. Yet the government can't shut the nukes down fast enough and you don't see much in the way of protest there. Now if carbon was really what all those protestors cared about, they would be campaigning to keep the nukes at least long enough until the renewables are sufficiently scaled and stable to take over seamlessly. Today, on the contary, as a result of anti-nuke protests (by some of the very same people, who seem to have very short memories), coal generation has actually been ramped up.

So we listened and did what you wanted but now you still protest?

Uh?
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  #118  
Old 01.10.2019, 11:11
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Re: The threat of Climate Change is bigger than our angst with Greta Thunberg

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To answer your question; knowing about climate change has changed my behaviour. I eat way less meat, use public transport more (whenever possible), I do consider where my groceries come from and I tried to offset some carbon due to an upcoming flight home recently.
For sure my lifestyle still generates carbon but I've reduced it easily without negatively impacting my or my families quality of life.
I can and I will say your attitude is bad. It's a total cop out.
I've done all these things years and years ago. Before Greta was born even. Not to follow some mass hysteria but because of common sense. And I remain sceptical about man made climate change, but I do believe in conserving finite resources.
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  #119  
Old 01.10.2019, 11:19
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Re: The threat of Climate Change is bigger than our angst with Greta Thunberg

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Many governments do, and many will soon have to, 'give a toss'. It takes nothing away from what Greta is trying to achieve.
no they don't, they really really don't, all governments give a toss about is staying in power, for 'democracies' that means jobs, money, keeping the electorate happy, green policies don't keep them happy, expensive power, expensive water, expensive food, hassle recycling everything, no more big ass tv's etc etc etc are all vote losers.

china and india etc only give a toss about knocking out as much crap to sell as possible, to us, and becoming super powers, and *if* you could make them give a toss there are a hundred other countries around the world who'll do anything to emulate china's miracle from 3rd world to worlds 2nd largest economy within 70 years, which of course isn't a miracle if you're prepared to burn and pollute whatever it takes.

we can all do our little bit to help but its just pissing in the wind, until a global catastrophe happens nothing at all will change, and by catastrophe I'm talking millions dead in one hit
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  #120  
Old 01.10.2019, 11:32
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Re: The threat of Climate Change is bigger than our angst with Greta Thunberg

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Yup.

Nuclear is just about the most carbon neutral of all power sources, second only to hydro. Yet the government can't shut the nukes down fast enough and you don't see much in the way of protest there. Now if carbon was really what all those protestors cared about, they would be campaigning to keep the nukes at least long enough until the renewables are sufficiently scaled and stable to take over seamlessly. Today, on the contary, as a result of anti-nuke protests (by some of the very same people, who seem to have very short memories), coal generation has actually been ramped up.

So we listened and did what you wanted but now you still protest?

Uh?
The third part of the Netflix Bill Gates documentary details his efforts to develop energy solutions. He hired a bunch of gurus and they think they developed a nuclear reactor which can run on existing spent nuclear fuel, (which is a massive issue) and is way safer than any other nuclear reactors. They signed an agreement with China to start building some reactors but the trade war put a halt to that. Sounds like a promising idea and definitely worth pursuing in my opinion.
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