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  #21  
Old 29.03.2020, 16:46
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Re: Corona - The aftermath

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Or.... it will force us to change our ways forever.
The almost 3 years of Spanish flu actually played an important part in ending WW1 and it played an important part in shaping the world until 1920.

Perhaps it will get us to a point where it will force us to align with those of past generations. They were never foolish enough to believe in entitlement.
The Spanish flu had no impact on the end of WW1 what so ever, in fact it was covered up so much that it took years for the general public to get the details. It is called the Spanish flu because Spain was the only country not to censor and so the world learned about the extent through Spanish sources. Also the armistice was not the end of the fighting, Poland and the Soviets went to war, the Turks genocided the Armenians, Iraq revolted against the Brits, Ireland got independence etc. etc. Despite all the deaths the Spanish flu had virtually no impact on society...

Except for a little ditty that my grandma used to sing to me:
"I had a little bird, it´s name was Enza, I opened a window and in-flew-enza."
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Old 29.03.2020, 16:55
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Re: Corona - The aftermath

I am sure that after this is over that cash usage will decrease substantially

I have to admit that I never used contactless payments until now but will continue to do so in the future -I am sure there are a lot of older folk who probably will do the same.
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Old 29.03.2020, 16:56
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Re: Corona - The aftermath

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The economic side effects of the pandemic make an enormous difference to the have-nots, likely worse for many than the virus itself.
Yeah, sure it does. But there will be an a steady and steep recovery, as this recession is not induced by the common cycle.
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Old 29.03.2020, 16:56
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Re: Corona - The aftermath

I would love for things to change but I am skeptical.
The wet markets in China have reopened. Nothing has changed there.
China will not be held accountable for their absolute lack of transparency and insufficient action in time.
People will remember this for a few months and then everything will be back to normal. Having lived through SARS, I have seen mass hysteria and then no changes.
The seasonal flu kills 660K people annually. CV-19 will become another seasonal flu which will kill people.
Global organisations like WHO will push for more powers and funding but remain hopelessly incapable of challenging countries who don't play ball.
We will applaud the 'people at the front line' but keep squeezing their salaries and benefits in the name of austerity which will follow this 'bailout'. And the rich people will keep getting richer and finding new ways to distract us minions.
I hope like hell I am wrong but sadly I may well be right.
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Old 29.03.2020, 16:58
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Re: Corona - The aftermath

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I would love for things to change but I am skeptical.
The wet markets in China have reopened. Nothing has changed there.
China will not be held accountable for their absolute lack of transparency and insufficient action in time.
People will remember this for a few months and then everything will be back to normal. Having lived through SARS, I have seen mass hysteria and then no changes.
The seasonal flu kills 660K people annually. CV-19 will become another seasonal flu which will kill people.
Global organisations like WHO will push for more powers and funding but remain hopelessly incapable of challenging countries who don't play ball.
We will applaud the 'people at the front line' but keep squeezing their salaries and benefits in the name of austerity which will follow this 'bailout'. And the rich people will keep getting richer and finding new ways to distract us minions.
I hope like hell I am wrong but sadly I may well be right.
Nope, pretty much spot on.
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Old 29.03.2020, 16:59
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Re: Corona - The aftermath

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I would love for things to change but I am skeptical.
The wet markets in China have reopened. Nothing has changed there.
China will not be held accountable for their absolute lack of transparency and insufficient action in time.
People will remember this for a few months and then everything will be back to normal. Having lived through SARS, I have seen mass hysteria and then no changes.
The seasonal flu kills 660K people annually. CV-19 will become another seasonal flu which will kill people.
Global organisations like WHO will push for more powers and funding but remain hopelessly incapable of challenging countries who don't play ball.
We will applaud the 'people at the front line' but keep squeezing their salaries and benefits in the name of austerity which will follow this 'bailout'. And the rich people will keep getting richer and finding new ways to distract us minions.
I hope like hell I am wrong but sadly I may well be right.
Shhhhh...most people here find purpose in panic
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Old 29.03.2020, 17:00
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Re: Corona - The aftermath

I've always like the contrast of my profession and being a hermit. Being a hermit has its introspective, introvert qualities, I enjoy it. That's how I try to see the positives of being at home now with the loved ones, with music, making art, reading and writing, cleaning up, cooking. We were not able to focus on home much, no time, much of stuff was lately outside and all over, not that I had a choice. We can now focus on our nest and how it functions, how everyone chips in and compensates, too, since the confinement.

This downtime, travelling far in my thoughts but nowhere physically, focusing on those daily capsules of time one by one is something I will protect more, when this scary massacre blows over. It is humbling.

I definitely cherish the efforts of family, neighbors and friends to communicate and reach out, reassure, protect each other and take care of eachother which doesn't need physical presence.

The job insecurity is and will be terrible for a single parent and only breadwinner, I think it will make a mental mpact on people to create multiple backup of opportunities, options. Seeing how the danger and change impacts the young ones, I think it will implant better habits, healthy routines...I am thinking especially about US and the way of life where healthy routines might have been secondary for some people, in terms of priorities. I think groups will become more autonomous, people maybe stocking up, survival mode, growing their own stuff, just in case.

I think the West will change more than places that could never have taken health and comfort and societal organisation for granted.
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Old 29.03.2020, 17:01
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Re: Corona - The aftermath

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Shhhhh...most people here find purpose in panic
You must have reading comprehension issues.
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Old 29.03.2020, 17:01
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Re: Corona - The aftermath

@slammer
Really? Yet there’s the logical belief that the Spanish flu influenced the end of WW1.
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Old 29.03.2020, 17:03
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Re: Corona - The aftermath

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Hear me out I am starting this new thread to explore the sociological, psychological and economic impact of all this once its over.

I don't think life will ever be the same again and perhaps we can take some valuable lessons from it. Being forced to make a full stop to our hectic lives and think about the fragility of civilisation is not a bad thing, we take so much for granted but nothing is guaranteed. You just have to look at the panic buying in the first week to see the primeval fear that was triggered in us all, in the words of Lenin “Every society is three meals away from chaos”.

Anyway, once we are allowed out of isolation and normality resumes this could be a giant reset button that makes us re-evaluate our lives and some of the crap of the last 5 years e.g. Trump, populism, Brexit, Woke culture, twitter storms, vacuous social media, erosion of privacy etc.. and the fact that none of it makes us happy.

Usually these types of awakenings happen after personal loss but here its happening on a much larger scale e.g. some people may choose/be forced to quit the rat race and do something that truly makes them happy.
Yes. The "work ethic " will take a hard hit
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Old 29.03.2020, 17:05
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Re: Corona - The aftermath

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Shhhhh...most people here find purpose in panic
There’s a big difference between silly panic and seriously considering the facts and the future.

I haven’t seen anybody mindlessly panic here.
It’s more a pooling of thoughts and ideas.
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Old 29.03.2020, 17:10
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Re: Corona - The aftermath

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Yeah, sure it does. But there will be an a steady and steep recovery, as this recession is not induced by the common cycle.
We'll see... social unrest is starting to brew with Italy under lockdown, as gov. support for people unable to work has been minimal and food money is starting to dry up (estimated 75% working black in some places, receive no aid).

The US is a powder keg. 3 million unemployment claims in the past week. If the country doesnt go back to work by Easter (which isn't possible IMO), people are going to start freaking out. The collective psychology will change when people see how much money is left in their accounts after paying the rent on 1.4, and realize they won't have enough to pay rent on 1.5 and the paltry check from the gov. won't even arrive until after that. Small businesses are going to be decimated and will take years to rebuild, or will have been forced to sell cheap to help pay mounting debts.

Big business will get bailouts on the backs of the poor and middle class.

Etc. etc.
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Old 29.03.2020, 17:13
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Re: Corona - The aftermath

I really don't think anything will change in our daily life. it will take time for middle class that can't work now to get back on their feet again, but other than that everything will continue.

business life will change for sure. currently it is visible how everything can function from afar, how there is no need for offices and so much travel. reorganisation defined in some production companies will stay because it has shown to be more efficient. additionally, I think that some companieshave shown that they can fast change what they produce, just look at the companies that have started to produce disinfectants, oxygen and everything needed for this crisis. these companies will from now on have more pressure in future to be efficient and faster in changes.
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Old 29.03.2020, 17:26
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Re: Corona - The aftermath

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@slammer
Really? Yet there’s the logical belief that the Spanish flu influenced the end of WW1.
In what way? The end of WW1 was pretty much fluid, on points alone the Germans had pretty much won. the war in Russia was over with Germany the victors and the war in the west was a stalemate with Britain on the brink of seeking a truce. Germany threw the towel in due to a number of reasons, mainly the war-wearyness of the general population and the soldiers themselves, culminating in the mutiny. The empire of Austria-Hungary had collapsed and the Bolscheviks were running riot in Russia.
WW1 simply ran out of steam, the flu was at least for the Germans just another: "Now what?" thing.
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Old 29.03.2020, 17:30
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Re: Corona - The aftermath

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Hear me out I am starting this new thread to explore the sociological, psychological and economic impact of all this once its over.

I don't think life will ever be the same again and perhaps we can take some valuable lessons from it. Being forced to make a full stop to our hectic lives and think about the fragility of civilisation is not a bad thing, we take so much for granted but nothing is guaranteed. You just have to look at the panic buying in the first week to see the primeval fear that was triggered in us all, in the words of Lenin “Every society is three meals away from chaos”.

Anyway, once we are allowed out of isolation and normality resumes this could be a giant reset button that makes us re-evaluate our lives and some of the crap of the last 5 years e.g. Trump, populism, Brexit, Woke culture, twitter storms, vacuous social media, erosion of privacy etc.. and the fact that none of it makes us happy.

Usually these types of awakenings happen after personal loss but here its happening on a much larger scale e.g. some people may choose/be forced to quit the rat race and do something that truly makes them happy.
You used we in your post so many times and every time I thought.. "We, no, don't include me or many, many people. I, and many, many people, are not sheep who just go along with the masses. I have been thinking about everything for a long time. How selfish people are during normal times. If I have to spend time with certain people for work or whatever, I'm amazed how much they don't give a shit with most only thinking about their next meal and what stupid thing they want to do next.

In the whole spectrum of everything, this (growing) minority will only complain if it directly affects them, they don't care to think about why there are fewer insects, bees, butterflies, etc. They don't protest about corporate greed and pollution, to ditch their ICE, a lot of us knew that during a pandemic these people were going to do what they do. They are still in the minority. And f*** them.

As the saying goes, most of us 'won't make a drama out of a crisis' ...we'll just stay calm and hope those on the frontline come out of it ok and we'll keep on helping others where we can, stay hungry another day (or three). We won't worry (if we take a lesson from the natives of our adopted country), we'll stay calm and carry on with less adjustment than you think when 'normality resumes' as you immaturely put it.
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Old 29.03.2020, 17:32
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Re: Corona - The aftermath

I love a good historical debate (thank you slammer) but I’d like to apologize to Castro for derailing the thread from its subject and intention.
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Old 29.03.2020, 17:36
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Re: Corona - The aftermath

I don't think one can compare working from home to working in a real team in a real place of work. People need real interraction, I don't think majority of people will enjoy doing work from home for a long time. There is a crisis so we put up with it but as I deal with students and how much they miss school, it is a bit of a barometer of others, too. Other jobs too - there is a healthy compromise between the overbearing and numbing, Big Brother-ish open plan office and an improvised work from the kitchen tables we do now. I hope regular jobs with offices stay and people can leave work behind at 5pm. 6?
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Old 29.03.2020, 17:39
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Re: Corona - The aftermath

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I don't think one can compare working from home to working in a real team in a real place of work. People need real interraction, I don't think majority of people will enjoy doing work from home for a long time. There is a crisis so we put up with it but as I deal with students and how much they miss school, it is a bit of a barometer of others, too. Other jobs; too - there is a healthy comopromise between the overbearing and numbing, Big Brother-ish open plan office and an improvised work from the kitchen tables we do now. I hope regular jobs with offices stay and people can leave work behind at 5pm. 6?
yes people don't grow from being isolated from one another. They only go crazy
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Old 29.03.2020, 17:47
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Re: Corona - The aftermath

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yes people don't grow from being isolated from one another. They only go crazy
I disagree. People grow, improve and better themselves only in isolation. The combined and focused effort of an individual who is doing work when nobody is looking serves as a catalyst for great potential achievements.
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Old 29.03.2020, 18:00
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Re: Corona - The aftermath

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I disagree. People grow, improve and better themselves only in isolation. The combined and focused effort of an individual who is doing work when nobody is looking serves as a catalyst for great potential achievements.
I think so. But if you look at trends - a collective grade for a master thesis for a 'team paper' when you know only one of them actually worked and killed his mental health..this collectiveness is sold as our biological need and survival, motivator. I think it often covers up the weaknesses that before were easily held accountable.

The time of crisis is the same: a gentle reminder for collective solidarity might not actually work so well, we still see very different interpretations of the rules that puts others at risk! I don't think that is what "democracy" needs, it may be just alibism, unwillingness or laziness to check if the interpretations of rules aren't causing harm.
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