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  #21  
Old 05.04.2020, 18:44
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Re: Keir Starmer elected as new Labour Leader

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Iíll take your word for it that you really do have plenty of friends who are staunch Tories, and that all of them are "appalled" by Boris Johnson and his handling of the pandemic. Your survey, and I totally accept that you undertook it, is completely at odds with my own observations.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1245654712356974595

Listen to Ferrari, arch Tory, arch Brexiter
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  #22  
Old 05.04.2020, 21:45
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Re: Keir Starmer elected as new Labour Leader

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Where do you get your news from? The Tories are currently polling above 50%, the highest at any time in their history. Not bad for a party making a “total balls up”
''For now, and on paper, Johnson has the people with him: his poll ratings have surged north of 50%, a feat last managed by a Tory government at the height of the Falklands war nearly 40 years ago. But the wisest heads in Downing Street will not be turned by those numbers. They know that there’s always a “rally around the flag” effect at moments of extreme crisis: when citizens are frightened, they want to believe their leaders have got things under control.''

From the Guardian. So yes- but the truth and reality will soon hit those figures on the head - wait, and see. The proof will be in the pudding ...

Last edited by Odile; 05.04.2020 at 22:00.
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  #23  
Old 05.04.2020, 21:49
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Re: Keir Starmer elected as new Labour Leader

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Great news, and very convincing majority. Bravo. Some say he lacks charisma- but I reply s*d charisma- give me experience, intelligence, strength of character and so much more ... Bravo. Great speech too

https://www.facebook.com/KeirStarmer...4913762698795/
I think he's bloody fantastic. Human rights lawyer, yes please.
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  #24  
Old 05.04.2020, 23:32
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Re: Keir Starmer elected as new Labour Leader

Coronavirus: PM admitted to hospital over virus symptoms
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  #25  
Old 05.04.2020, 23:53
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Re: Keir Starmer elected as new Labour Leader

Are we ready for Raab (I hope on a temporary basis).
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  #26  
Old 06.04.2020, 13:17
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Re: Keir Starmer elected as new Labour Leader

oh FGS noooo, not Raab, not Gove- none of them - please
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  #27  
Old 06.04.2020, 13:19
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Re: Keir Starmer elected as new Labour Leader

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oh FGS noooo, not Raab, not Gove- none of them - please
Both weasels. I'd still like five minutes alone with Gove and a pin, from when he was a piss-poor education sec.
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  #28  
Old 06.04.2020, 13:32
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Re: Keir Starmer elected as new Labour Leader

The tide will turn when people realise that 1000s of deaths were preventable, including that of doctors, nurses and carers on the front line

https://www.facebook.com/alan.todd.7...6695449206652/

This guy is not some ranting left-wing Labourite- but the Head of the Lancet Medical Publication, an association which is traditionally more conservative than the BMJ. (British Medical Journal). Established in 1823: ''The Lancet is considered an authoritative voice in global medicine, with 1.8 million registered users worldwide. ... Only 5% of submitted manuscripts accepted for publication in the Lancet family of nine general medicine specialty journals. Research published in The Lancet is considered ethical and credible.''
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  #29  
Old 06.04.2020, 13:38
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Re: Keir Starmer elected as new Labour Leader

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The tide will turn when people realise that 1000s of deaths were preventable, including that of doctors, nurses and carers on the front line

https://www.facebook.com/alan.todd.7...6695449206652/

This guy is not some ranting left-wing Labourite- but the Head of the Lancet Medical Publication, an association which is traditionally more conservative than the BMJ. (British Medical Journal).
The lack of PPE is appalling. It should be criminal negligence. My friend works in a pretty famous hospital. She attending a meeting last week. Masks were mandatory. When they got there, big sign on meeting room door read "You must all supply your own masks for this meeting". There were none. She has none.
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  #30  
Old 06.04.2020, 13:41
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Re: Keir Starmer elected as new Labour Leader

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The lack of PPE is appalling. It should be criminal negligence. My friend works in a pretty famous hospital. She attending a meeting last week. Masks were mandatory. When they got there, big sign on meeting room door read "You must all supply your own masks for this meeting". There were none. She has none.
Why don't they hold their meetings by Zoom like everybody else?
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Old 06.04.2020, 13:58
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Re: Keir Starmer elected as new Labour Leader

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Why don't they hold their meetings by Zoom like everybody else?
What kind of non-brainwave comments is that? She's a doctor, the meeting was in the hospital and then they go back to treating patients. How does Zoom come into play, they don't work from home.
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  #32  
Old 06.04.2020, 13:59
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Re: Keir Starmer elected as new Labour Leader

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Why don't they hold their meetings by Zoom like everybody else?
Probably because

https://www.theguardian.com/technolo...QriGRa9JlUX4-Q
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  #33  
Old 06.04.2020, 14:06
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Re: Keir Starmer elected as new Labour Leader

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What kind of non-brainwave comments is that? She's a doctor, the meeting was in the hospital and then they go back to treating patients. How does Zoom come into play, they don't work from home.
If they don't have masks, they are not Dr's.
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  #34  
Old 06.04.2020, 14:22
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Re: Keir Starmer elected as new Labour Leader

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Even our staunchiest Tory voting relatives and friends- are appalled by the handling of this crisis by Johnson and team.

Wait and see - but I truly and sincerely believe that Starmer will be shown to be a true Statesman in a way Johnson could never be.

And those in traditional Labour areas in the NE and NW - will soon see that the promises made to them by Johnson are not going to make their lives better and that they have been played- sh*fted big time.

Wait and see ...
I'm from the NE, and I've been active in UK politics for 15 years before moving to CH. In the medium to long term, I'd be willing to bet that the region is only going to move one way. Labour will hold on to the Newcastle seats but I'd confidently predict that outside that its going to be a bloodbath over the next 20 years or so.

Also - Starmer is not the right candidate for a Labour resurgence there. They just don't want to hear from another London metropolitan. Its hard to break through when people aren't going to give you the time of day. London and Londoners are just on a different planet to the rest of the UK.

The reality in my mind is that Labour need to sound and act significantly more Brexity and less metropolitan-y or they just aren't get out of the hole they are currently in where they are winning nothing outside cities. I think they think ditching Corbyn and Corbynism will be sufficient. I think its necessary but far from sufficient.

I think we'd be far more concerned facing Nandy or a Caroline Flint type figure (appreciate shes lost her seat). What North-Easterners hear from the Starmer wing of Labour is that they are stupid people who don't know what they were doing in voting for Brexit. Whatever your views on Brexit I think its clear that that's not a way to win people over. Its become a tribal and values issue that people aren't going to change their minds on. If you are firmly in the opposite tribe you will lose those people, probably forever. I stood in London and saw the Conservatives lose voters for the opposite reason. The difference is that we can afford to lose Putney and Richmond etc. as there aren't that many of that type of seat.

In retrospect, Labour made a big strategic error in not supporting the May deal. Sooner or later the angry remainers considering the liberals would have returned as there is no where else to go if they want their vote to count. Is there the political will within Labour to move towards Brexit to win? I doubt it, but we will see.

My main worry for UK politics is not the Tories winning for the forseeable but rather the direction of the party. I'm a much better fit with the FDP here.

Last edited by jorido; 06.04.2020 at 15:02.
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  #35  
Old 06.04.2020, 14:45
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Re: Keir Starmer elected as new Labour Leader

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If they don't have masks, they are not Dr's.
Sigh.

She's a nurse. Nurses wear masks too.
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  #36  
Old 06.04.2020, 14:49
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Re: Keir Starmer elected as new Labour Leader

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The lack of PPE is appalling.
What the hell is PPE?

Tom
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  #37  
Old 06.04.2020, 14:50
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Re: Keir Starmer elected as new Labour Leader

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I'm from the NE, and I've been active in UK politics for 15 years before moving to CH. In the medium to long term, I'd be willing to bet that the region is only going to move one way. Labour will hold on to the Newcastle seats but I'd confidently predict that outside that its going to be a bloodbath over the next 20 years or so.

Also - Starmer is not the right candidate for a Labour resurgence there. They just don't want to hear from another London metropolitan. Its hard to break through when people aren't going to give you the time of day. London and Londoners are just on a different planet to the rest of the UK.

The reality in my mind is that Labour need to sound and act significantly more Brexity and less metropolitan-y or they just aren't get out of the hole they are currently in where they are winning nothing outside cities. I think they think ditching Corbyn and Corbynism will be sufficient. I think its necessary but far from sufficient.

I think we'd be far more concerned facing Nandy or a Caroline Flint type figure (appreciate shes lost her seat). What North-Easterners hear from the Starmer wing of Labour is that they are stupid people who don't know what they were doing in voting for Brexit. Whatever your views on Brexit I think its clear that that's not a way to win people over. Its become a tribal and values issue that people aren't going to change their minds on. If you are firmly in the opposite tribe you will lose those people, probably forever. I stood in London and saw the Conservatives lose voters for the opposite reason. The difference is that we can afford to lose Putney and Richmond etc. as there aren't that many of those types of seat.

In retrospect, Labour made a big error in not supporting the May deal.
I don't agree. I think Starmer is a change most will welcome. I don't think it is "tribal" either or else traditional labour strongholds wouldn't have lost in the last GE. I think it's the opposite: governments are increasingly appealing to the individual, what the individual can get, rather than a community.
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  #38  
Old 06.04.2020, 14:59
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Re: Keir Starmer elected as new Labour Leader

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What the hell is PPE?

Tom
Personal Performance Evaluation - Although nobody get a pat on the back these days, social distancing.

Peronsal Protection Equipment - Although it doesn't belong to you personally and is of dubious protection without following instructions.

Power Processing Element - Pretty much does what it says on the tin.
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  #39  
Old 06.04.2020, 15:02
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Re: Keir Starmer elected as new Labour Leader

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What the hell is PPE?

Tom
personal protective equipment. It's become really hip to call it PPE in the media. Also uses fewer characters when typing.
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  #40  
Old 06.04.2020, 15:03
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Re: Keir Starmer elected as new Labour Leader

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I don't agree. I think Starmer is a change most will welcome. I don't think it is "tribal" either or else traditional labour strongholds wouldn't have lost in the last GE. I think it's the opposite: governments are increasingly appealing to the individual, what the individual can get, rather than a community.
You don't think Brexit was a tribal issue? Really?

Put it this way. Most New Yorkers, Calfornians etc. (and some would argue rational people in general), would argue that poor Southern states benefit from Obamacare. But most Southerners ferociously oppose Obamacare even if they would individually benefit. I think Brexit is similar. There are a lot of northerners who are in favour of Brexit, and will remain so regardless of almost anything. (You likewise get hysterical londoners who think its ruined their life when they will be almost entirely unaffected). I talked to people who were almost tears on the doorstep. Rationality doesn't come into it for a lot of people. Its about identity.

Just having a tribal identity doesn't mean that places can't flip parties. The deep south was solidly democratic until a couple of decades ago. Most people are tribal to values not to political parties.

Obviously, some people think about the issues, but in my experience, most go with their feelings first and foremost.

Last edited by jorido; 06.04.2020 at 15:35.
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