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  #81  
Old 05.05.2021, 13:28
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Re: Keir Starmer elected as new Labour Leader

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Not sure its the Private school is the right target. The private school is where people go to learn, they also go to oxford, cambridge but no one complains about that. If its the networking after private school, where family connections get them into business, thats a concern then its the network, not the school thats the fault.

It's not a criticism, but its just you hear that the common point amongst various positions is that they all went to a private school, but so do business titans, many top end professors and academics, all sorts of people, but its only the politicians and in particular the conservative ones, that seem to get this singularly pointed out.
That's fair and I agree that it's not only the Tory party but Business boards, broadcasters, professions such as law etc that also don't have diverse backgrounds - case in point being the continued lack of women on boards despite clearly having valuable skills. All in all gives the impression of the top of society being elitist boys club with a glass ceiling affect difficult to break down, Tory party is part of that same problem to my mind.

I responded to the original post criticising Starmer for living in Islington - surely to be fair and balanced we should then be critical of other politicians, especially those in government. It shouldn't be a different rule for Starmer because he represents the working class labour movement and doesn't come from a working class northern background and another rule for the Tories. Let's also criticise others like SNP who are getting themselves in knots about gender equality and diversity.

Seems though on the forum it's often difficult to even get some to criticise Johnson or the conservatives for anything without a blanket defence coming down as if written by Tory HQ - UK looking like it's heading for one party state in England and another one party state in Scotland. It's all very depressing!
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  #82  
Old 05.05.2021, 13:51
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Re: Keir Starmer elected as new Labour Leader

The second female pm was/is a waste of space mind.
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  #83  
Old 05.05.2021, 14:46
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Re: Keir Starmer elected as new Labour Leader

Hhmmm very mysterious....I am certain I read a post not long ago but it has now disappeared....

Perhaps that person had a change of heart or had reflected on what they had said, hopefully....

Anyway I will stick up for Angela Rayner. While I don't always agree with her policies, I admire that she is able as a woman in the 21st century to have a family and achieve a political career, overcoming difficulties to become deputy leader of one of the main parties. We very much need a more diverse parliament.
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  #84  
Old 05.05.2021, 14:58
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Re: Keir Starmer elected as new Labour Leader

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Hhmmm very mysterious....I am certain I read a post not long ago but it has now disappeared....

Perhaps that person had a change of heart or had reflected on what they had said, hopefully....

Anyway I will stick up for Angela Rayner. While I don't always agree with her policies, I admire that she is able as a woman in the 21st century to have a family and achieve a political career, overcoming difficulties to become deputy leader of one of the main parties. We very much need a more diverse parliament.
There a lot worse out there than Rayner. Tbf there's also better northern women too. Lisa Nandy (who should have been elected leader not Starmer).
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  #85  
Old 05.05.2021, 15:03
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Re: Keir Starmer elected as new Labour Leader

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There a lot worse out there than Rayner. Tbf there's also better northern women too. Lisa Nandy (who should have been elected leader not Starmer).
Yes I'd say so too, she seems a lot more in touch with local communities and generally more down to earth, she'd definitely offer a clear contrast to Johnson. Who knows Nandy might well get another shot at it soon!
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  #86  
Old 05.05.2021, 15:09
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Re: Keir Starmer elected as new Labour Leader

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Yes I'd say so too, she seems a lot more in touch with local communities and generally more down to earth, she'd definitely offer a clear contrast to Johnson. Who knows Nandy might well get another shot at it soon!
If I was Labour I wouldn't really want to go into a GE with Starmer. Nandy would be unlikely to get a majority - but I think she'd have a shot at stopping Johnson getting his. Starmer - I don't see that happening.

Rayner is a bit tainted by the hard left connection. If he gets her head down everyone will have forgotten that in 5-10 years. But for now she has no hope of the leadership for that reason alone.
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  #87  
Old 05.05.2021, 15:26
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Re: Keir Starmer elected as new Labour Leader

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If I was Labour I wouldn't really want to go into a GE with Starmer. Nandy would be unlikely to get a majority - but I think she'd have a shot at stopping Johnson getting his. Starmer - I don't see that happening.

Rayner is a bit tainted by the hard left connection. If he gets her head down everyone will have forgotten that in 5-10 years. But for now she has no hope of the leadership for that reason alone.
I don't see Rayner as a future leader or PM nevertheless I'm happy to stand up for her when someone posts then deletes a derogatory comment about her....

Perhaps that's one of labour's many problems, they lack an obvious transformative leader who can really turn things around and win back lost support, it seems like they're only pointing out the government's flaws without offering alternatives. They win the occasional battle over things like free school meals but cannot lay any knockout blows to the government.
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  #88  
Old 06.05.2021, 09:05
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Re: Keir Starmer elected as new Labour Leader

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Seems though on the forum it's often difficult to even get some to criticise Johnson or the conservatives for anything without a blanket defence coming down as if written by Tory HQ - UK looking like it's heading for one party state in England and another one party state in Scotland. It's all very depressing!
I tend to stay out of political debate, here and in general, because I think they are all broadly as bad as each other (in the UK at least) and none of the parties represent my views.

However, to claim that this forum is a hotbed of Tories is risible. There are certainly a few posters with more right of centre, but I would say libertarian views (the classic „small c“ conservative no longer represented in UK politics.). Here though, typical urban Labour types stand out much more to me. Indeed, the posters engaging with you in recent pages come from traditional Labour heartlands, as do I, and they are explaining why Labour are losing there.

Last edited by eyebeebe; 06.05.2021 at 10:08.
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  #89  
Old 06.05.2021, 13:12
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Re: Keir Starmer elected as new Labour Leader

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I tend to stay out of political debate, here and in general, because I think they are all broadly as bad as each other (in the UK at least) and none of the parties represent my views.

However, to claim that this forum is a hotbed of Tories is risible. There are certainly a few posters with more right of centre, but I would say libertarian views (the classic „small c“ conservative no longer represented in UK politics.). Here though, typical urban Labour types stand out much more to me. Indeed, the posters engaging with you in recent pages come from traditional Labour heartlands, as do I, and they are explaining why Labour are losing there.
Just for the record I am not and haven't claimed that the English forum is a "hotbed of Tories". That statement doesn't represent what I think. From my observations on responses on various threads, I was pointing out that there is often little criticism of Johnson. Sure, some people have posted messages against the current PM but the feeling I got was that there was little criticism of him. Just a feeling I got by reading various threads and posts.
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  #90  
Old 06.05.2021, 14:30
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Re: Keir Starmer elected as new Labour Leader

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Just for the record I am not and haven't claimed that the English forum is a "hotbed of Tories". That statement doesn't represent what I think. From my observations on responses on various threads, I was pointing out that there is often little criticism of Johnson. Sure, some people have posted messages against the current PM but the feeling I got was that there was little criticism of him. Just a feeling I got by reading various threads and posts.
Hmmm

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Seems though on the forum it's often difficult to even get some to criticise Johnson or the conservatives for anything without a blanket defence coming down as if written by Tory HQ
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  #91  
Old 06.05.2021, 15:05
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Re: Keir Starmer elected as new Labour Leader

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Hmmm
"hotbed of Tories" are your words, not mine. I'll repeat again for the sake of clarity that's not what I'm saying, again my point is that during the thread there seemed to be plenty of criticism of Starmer, for example, of where he lived and very little if any criticism of Johnson, some of which seemed very scripted or similar to talking points Tory ministers use on TV interviews. Re-read all of the posts if you wish.
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  #92  
Old 07.05.2021, 09:24
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Re: Keir Starmer elected as new Labour Leader

So much for Sir Keir saving labour - routed at Hartlepool...

https://news.sky.com/story/election-...-ever-12298989
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  #93  
Old 07.05.2021, 09:32
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Re: Keir Starmer elected as new Labour Leader

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So much for Sir Keir saving labour - routed at Hartlepool...

https://news.sky.com/story/election-...-ever-12298989
That's the worst opposition defence of a by election ever. Well at least since the war.

Conservative: 15,529
Labour: 8,589

Even Jeremy Corbyn managed to win the seat. This wasn't remotely close.
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  #94  
Old 07.05.2021, 10:09
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Re: Keir Starmer elected as new Labour Leader

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I don't like Johnson either but there's no more palatable alternative (blame FPTP for that). I don't give a monkeys if he is from a posh background - and his views are relatively appealing (not overly ideological and moderate socially) His character isn't.
I don' think a leader needs to be nice and cuddly. The last time the British electorate went for somebody who ticked that box they got Tony Blair, and although they liked him at first they bitterly regretted it later.
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  #95  
Old 07.05.2021, 10:16
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Re: Keir Starmer elected as new Labour Leader

I think social media has basically killed off the Labour Party. Before the likes of Twitter and Facebook, they were hide their utter contempt for the working class. Social media has removed that mask for good.

It's more remarkable is given the number of scandals that have hit the Conservatives in recent week. The Tories haven't done anything to earn these seats, people are just turned off Labour thanks to their self implosion.

Last point that just came into my head, to read social media postings by those on the left anyone would think Boris Johnson's government is a far right authoritarian one. It's not though, it's a right of center one nation conservative one. He's basically Tony Blair.
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Old 07.05.2021, 10:24
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Re: Keir Starmer elected as new Labour Leader

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I think social media has basically killed off the Labour Party. Before the likes of Twitter and Facebook, they were hide their utter contempt for the working class. Social media has removed that mask for good.
I disagree. I think they themselves have changed.

When I was a kid growing up in UK my parents were on friendly terms with several Labour councilors and they would come over and have a chat here and there. They were all salt of the Earth people who were genuinely interested in making things better for normal regular people, whether or not these people had actually voted for them. They didn't come in and talk about changing the world into some sort of self defined utopia, but would talk about small stuff that was actually needed, such as fixing the roof on the primary school.

It's maybe a good thing none of those people are alive today, because they would be deeply ashamed of what their party has become.
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Old 07.05.2021, 10:32
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Re: Keir Starmer elected as new Labour Leader

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I disagree. I think they themselves have changed.

When I was a kid growing up in UK my parents were on friendly terms with several Labour councilors and they would come over and have a chat here and there. They were all salt of the Earth people who were genuinely interested in making things better for normal regular people, whether or not these people had actually voted for them. They didn't come in and talk about changing the world into some sort of self defined utopia, but would talk about small stuff that was actually needed, such as fixing the roof on the primary school.

It's maybe a good thing none of those people are alive today, because they would be deeply ashamed of what their party has become.
And those that are alive are just appalled by what they're seeing for example Alan Johnson and Kate Hoey.

I think it depends on what the timeframe is. The rot certainly set in during the Blair years, but there was no social media then to amplify what these people really thought. This sneering attitude has just gotten progressively worse since then. Social media allows such people to bounce thoughts off each other in their echo chambers and the result is that they've completely lost touch with the average voter.
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Old 07.05.2021, 13:09
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Re: Keir Starmer elected as new Labour Leader

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And those that are alive are just appalled by what they're seeing for example Alan Johnson and Kate Hoey.

I think it depends on what the timeframe is. The rot certainly set in during the Blair years, but there was no social media then to amplify what these people really thought. This sneering attitude has just gotten progressively worse since then. Social media allows such people to bounce thoughts off each other in their echo chambers and the result is that they've completely lost touch with the average voter.
The sheer, blinkered arrogance of labour to select a remainer in one of the countries strongest leave seats coupled with sneering comments about how the working class electorate are in the main racist xenophobes does not seem to have gone down well with the punters.Lady Nugee and her ilk need to be put out to grass pdq otherwise love them or hate them the conservatives are going to be in power for the next 20 years.
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Old 07.05.2021, 13:35
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Re: Keir Starmer elected as new Labour Leader

I think the worst part about all this is that the Tories will start thinking they're doing a really great job
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Old 07.05.2021, 13:48
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Re: Keir Starmer elected as new Labour Leader

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I think the worst part about all this is that the Tories will start thinking they're doing a really great job
As someone who has stood (and lost!) for the party, I definitely don't.
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