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  #341  
Old 05.06.2020, 13:23
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Re: Bufallo NY, 75 year old assault by Police

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The guy is an idiot.
He tried to stop, confront or remonstrate with a group of 40 riot police who were on route trying to disperse a crowd.

What did he think was going to happen? They'd stop for a chat?
He'd alter their point of view? They'd all take to the knee?
Why were the police trying to disperse a crowd? The 1st amendment gives the crowd the right to be there. No sign of any looting.

Had a member of the public had done that to a policeman they would be in jail quicker than you can say flash mob. And probably beaten to a pulp.
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  #342  
Old 05.06.2020, 13:28
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Re: Bufallo NY, 75 year old assault by Police

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The guy is an idiot.
He tried to stop, confront or remonstrate with a group of 40 riot police who were on route trying to disperse a crowd.

What did he think was going to happen? They'd stop for a chat?
He'd alter their point of view? They'd all take to the knee?
I've had several encounters with police. It ended in several fines or handcuffs and passing the night in jail until a responsible adult pick me up next morning. Luckily no records. That was me as a drunk twenty something, my worst problem was a bit of shoulder pain after being shoved in the police car.

There's also the duty of care. Let's assume cracking his skull was an inevitable accident. If you accidentally ran over a person with your car, what happens if you leave?
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  #343  
Old 05.06.2020, 13:38
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Re: Bufallo NY, 75 year old assault by Police

PS. the one that stops to help the old man is a guy in green, that's why people respects the military.
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  #344  
Old 05.06.2020, 13:40
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Re: Bufallo NY, 75 year old assault by Police

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Of all the craziness in the US right now, this really got me angry. :
How about this guy going after a little girl hanging flyers to support the protesters. I'm sure we will find out who he is soon enough.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/cyclist-as...c_strip_sq_hed
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  #345  
Old 05.06.2020, 13:45
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Re: Bufallo NY, 75 year old assault by Police

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Doesn't matter what he thought.

Breaking someones skull because they're in your way is not acceptable and that's the issue here. Plus, what crowd? There were more cops then protesters there.

There was no intent to hurt him.
Of course there was a crowd. That's why the police were there, as well as what looks like the National Guard, they were just out of camera shot.
It's all on the buffalonews website.
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  #346  
Old 05.06.2020, 13:52
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Re: Bufallo NY, 75 year old assault by Police

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There was no intent to hurt him.
Of course there was a crowd. That's why the police were there, as well as what looks like the National Guard, they were just out of camera shot.
It's all on the buffalonews website.

That's my point above. Accidents happen: I ran over a child with my car. There was no intent to harm. What are my duties?
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  #347  
Old 05.06.2020, 13:53
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Re: Bufallo NY, 75 year old assault by Police

Well aI prefer my news from the BBC

The Buffalo video shows a 75-year-old man approach police officers enforcing a curfew. They then move forward, pushing him back and causing him to fall over and hit his head.
As he lies on the ground, blood is seen pouring from his ear.
The man was taken away in an ambulance and was later found to have suffered a severe head injury.
An initial statement from Buffalo Police Department said the man had "tripped" and fallen during a "skirmish involving protesters", compounding outrage at the incident on social media.
Police spokesman Jeff Rinaldo later attributed the statement to officers not directly involved in the incident, adding that when the video had emerged the two policemen who pushed the demonstrator had been suspended without pay.
On the same evening, a delivery driver in New York City was arrested 27 minutes after the city's curfew had started, despite being a key worker exempt from the curfew.

And in the Williamsburg area of the city, police were filmed charging demonstrators, throwing at least one person to the ground.
Other videos showed a man lying on the ground bleeding from the head, and being arrested.
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  #348  
Old 05.06.2020, 13:56
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Re: Bufallo NY, 75 year old assault by Police

At first glance it looked horrific, watching back a few times one sees that there was nothing in the push and it's an unfortunate accident. How bad it is depends whether one is judging by outcome or intention.
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  #349  
Old 05.06.2020, 13:57
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Re: Bufallo NY, 75 year old assault by Police

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The guy is an idiot.
He tried to stop, confront or remonstrate with a group of 40 riot police who were on route trying to disperse a crowd.

What did he think was going to happen? They'd stop for a chat?
He'd alter their point of view? They'd all take to the knee?
You're seriously not able to understand that the cop(s) could have just walked by that 75-year old man and didn't have to push him to the ground?

And you're seriously not able to understand the problem with none of those cops stopping to help that 75-year old man as he was lying on the ground, bleeding from his head and unresponsive, because of pushing him?

If not, then you are basically condoning fascism.

Are you at least able to understand THAT?
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  #350  
Old 05.06.2020, 14:05
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Re: Bufallo NY, 75 year old assault by Police

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That's my point above. Accidents happen: I ran over a child with my car. There was no intent to harm. What are my duties?
...and if the child was walking on the freeway in heavy traffic?

If I saw a group of heavily armed police marching towards me in the USA in the current uproar, IĎd walk away and go quietly home...
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  #351  
Old 05.06.2020, 14:12
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Re: Bufallo NY, 75 year old assault by Police

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You're seriously not able to understand that the cop(s) could have just walked by that 75-year old man and didn't have to push him to the ground?

And you're seriously not able to understand the problem with none of those cops stopping to help that 75-year old man as he was lying on the ground, bleeding from his head and unresponsive, because of pushing him?

If not, then you are basically condoning fascism.

Are you at least able to understand THAT?
I'm not condoning the actions of the officers, but it is general policy when moving as a group to not let an outsider into the group freely for safety and security. They use the group as a bastion and pull people through for arrests.
I think that's why when one of them stopped to check on the man, another (possibly senior) grabs his arm to move him forward and then gets on the radio. I would have thought there'd be paramedics following the police group in case of injuries.
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  #352  
Old 05.06.2020, 14:44
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Re: Bufallo NY, 75 year old assault by Police

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You're seriously not able to understand that the cop(s) could have just walked by that 75-year old man and didn't have to push him to the ground?

And you're seriously not able to understand the problem with none of those cops stopping to help that 75-year old man as he was lying on the ground, bleeding from his head and unresponsive, because of pushing him?

If not, then you are basically condoning fascism.

Are you at least able to understand THAT?
That's quite a leap to make from justifying a small push to condoning fascism. Basically the problem with current western discourse in a nutshell!

Police brutality takes place the world over, even in Switzerland. The cops are clearly attending to the man at the end of the video.
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  #353  
Old 05.06.2020, 14:55
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Re: Bufallo NY, 75 year old assault by Police

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That's quite a leap to make from justifying a small push to condoning fascism. Basically the problem with current western discourse in a nutshell!

Police brutality takes place the world over, even in Switzerland. The cops are clearly attending to the man at the end of the video.
What you perceive as a small push was clearly enough to cause a 75-year old man to fall backward and hit the ground hard enough to cause his head to bleed and for him to be rendered unresponsive. He was, by the way, eventually taken away to a hospital, where he was diagnosed with a severe head injury.

I think you need to watch the video again. No, the cops are not helping him. They are more concerned with trying to arrest another protestor in front of them, who appears to be trying to rush in to help the old man. It was two men in brown military uniforms (NOT cops) who finally stop to try to help the old man.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/05/u...er-unrest.html

Also, no it is not "quite a leap." What do you THINK fascism looks like?
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  #354  
Old 05.06.2020, 14:55
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Re: Bufallo NY, 75 year old assault by Police

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The entire system is broken. Why on earth were four police officers sent to arrest a man due to a suspicious $20 note?
Because two of them were brand new on the job, one on his third day I believe. The murderer was supposed to be the senior officer tutoring them and showing them how to do their jobs... yeah, I know. I must say I somehow do feel for the rookies - they witness their boss killing a suspect in a stress situation that was new for them. Not ch an excuse to not act for nine minutes, but clearly shell shocked.
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  #355  
Old 05.06.2020, 14:57
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Re: Bufallo NY, 75 year old assault by Police

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The police need to be de-militarised and trained to do their jobs. That doesn't include learning the best ways to kill people.
I believe that you canít have a functioning democracy without a police force that polices at the will of the people and you donít have that in the US today. But it also means the police men and women should not have to fear for their lives every time they go on the beat and you donít have that either.

I expect that this problem can only be solved if the entire issue of gun control is addressed in addition to police reform. Unarmed policing works in Ireland and the UK because neither side expects to encounter lethal situations on a daily basis.
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  #356  
Old 05.06.2020, 15:00
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Re: Bufallo NY, 75 year old assault by Police

There's a duty to help even if a investigation establishes zero liability for the accident.

That's what the guy in military uniform do. Help an injured person.
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Old 05.06.2020, 15:06
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Re: Bufallo NY, 75 year old assault by Police

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I believe that you can’t have a functioning democracy without a police force that polices at the will of the people and you don’t have that in the US today. But it also means the police men and women should not have to fear for their lives every time they go on the beat and you don’t have that either.

I expect that this problem can only be solved if the entire issue of gun control is addressed in addition to police reform. Unarmed policing works in Ireland and the UK because neither side expects to encounter lethal situations on a daily basis.
I agree with everything you wrote. But clearly the problem is not simply that police are fearing for their lives. The cop that killed Floyd was not fearing for his life at the time, as he was kneeling on his neck and Floyd was already hand-cuffed. The cop who pushed that 75-year old protestor was not fearing for his life at the time. I think the problem is cops not being able to control their own behavior and aggression. And if you're so paranoid that you're not able to do your job without shooting or killing innocent people who don't have a gun, etc., then you shouldn't be a police officer in the first place.
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  #358  
Old 05.06.2020, 15:07
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Re: Bufallo NY, 75 year old assault by Police

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Well aI prefer my news from the BBC
Well I prefer to scour the web and get a few different view points and more context.
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  #359  
Old 05.06.2020, 15:31
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

https://www.nytimes.com...opinion/police-riots.htmL

Last edited by Ace1; 05.06.2020 at 15:36. Reason: Edited to better show URL, as you've given no context.
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  #360  
Old 05.06.2020, 15:50
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Re: Bufallo NY, 75 year old assault by Police

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Because two of them were brand new on the job, one on his third day I believe.
Ja aber...

According to this Minneapolis Star Tribue article, while they were indeed rookie officers, the three men were not exactly completely inexperienced at policing:

https://www.startribune.com/judge-75...ath/571020052/

Gray and Kueng's defense attorney, Tom Plunkett, asked the court for lower bail, saying their clients had been police officers for just four days when Floyd was killed. Police records indicate that while the men were rookies, they had more experience than a handful of days on the force. According to their records, they joined the department in February 2019 and became full officers in December. Minneapolis officers must serve a year on probation and spend time in field training with a more senior officer before they are fully qualified.
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