The racial time bomb-USA - Page 19

amogles · #**361** 05.06.2020, 15:58

	Quote:	AbFab
	...and if the child was walking on the freeway in heavy traffic?

Your duty would still be to help, provide first aid, call an ambulance, whatever.

Even if the person needing help acted irresponsibly, foolishly, and knowlingly put themselves in danger, that doesn't lessen the obligation to help.

Ato · #**362** 05.06.2020, 16:16

	Quote:	amogles
	Your duty would still be to help, provide first aid, call an ambulance, whatever. Even if the person needing help acted irresponsibly, foolishly, and knowlingly put themselves in danger, that doesn't lessen the obligation to help.

It looks like he had people checking him in about 20 seconds, not the same people who pushed him but there were people there. I'd like to know what the radio call was for, was it for a medic or was it for the arrest in front?

I think the police lines first concern was whatever was happening in front of them and maintaining a forward line. In the video there does not appear to be much happening in front but people are reduced to their training in times like this. Whether that training is up to scratch is very questionable with the videos we're seeing.

It's a stressful situation where their focus is on what's in front, not on the man on the ground, the following police/soldiers have the ability to check on the man without worrying as much about what's going on in front of them.

#**363** 05.06.2020, 16:26

	Quote:	CodPeace
	Well I prefer to scour the web and get a few different view points and more context.

Like Breitbart or the Hatemail you mean?

MusicChick · #**364** 05.06.2020, 16:39

I grew up somewhere where no police was anyone's friend or even supposed to provide safety, so take this with a grain of salt. But when western police hurt regular civilians, it seems to me like they are left to fend for themselves without orders...don't know what to do nor who to protect (themselves, or civilians or who exactly). An unfortunate mess.

THere should be charges coming.

bowlie · #**365** 05.06.2020, 17:36

From the daily beast:

	Quote:
	Thao has had a spotty career with law enforcement since he started with the Minneapolis Police Department as a community service officer. After going through the police academy in 2009, he was laid off a year later. In 2012, he returned to the department. According to Minneapolis’ Communities United Against Police Brutality, six complaints have been filed against the now-former police officer—but no disciplinary action was ever taken. The details of the six complaints were not immediately clear. In 2017, Thao and another officer were sued by Lamar Ferguson, 26, after Ferguson alleged the two officers used excessive force during an Oct. 7, 2014 arrest. According to the lawsuit obtained by The Daily Beast, Ferguson said the officers “punch[ed], kick[ed], and kn[eed]” him “to the face and body” while he was handcuffed. The incident was so violent he suffered “broken teeth as well as other bruising and trauma.”

Four days on the job? Bullsh!t

Treverus · #**366** 05.06.2020, 18:14

	Quote:	bowlie
	From the daily beast: Four days on the job? Bullsh!t

Thai was the fourth guy, the other two are the rookies.

bowlie · #**367** 05.06.2020, 18:29

	Quote:	Treverus
	Thai was the fourth guy, the other two are the rookies.

And a serial abuser.

Urs Max · #**368** 05.06.2020, 18:46

	Quote:	bowlie
	Granted it isn't the only problem confronting Americans, but it is a big one. The police are there to 'serve and protect' not to 'serve and protect white people'.

That's just the LAPD's motto, not a legally binding order. Still: whom or what are they to serve and protect, and from whom or what?

Kindly point me to the law, regulation, or similar, on the federal or state level, that says the police are to protect the public, the people.

omtatsat · #**369** 05.06.2020, 18:58

Its primitive the use of these things by the police. They injure people very badly. Why are they not banned?

https://www.euronews.com/2020/01/17/...er-bullet-guns

Pancakes · #**370** 05.06.2020, 19:19

	Quote:	Urs Max
	That's just the LAPD's motto, not a legally binding order. Still: whom or what are they to serve and protect, and from whom or what? Kindly point me to the law, regulation, or similar, on the federal or state level, that says the police are to protect the public, the people.

Well, then... that's (part of) the problem right there. If it's not the job of the police to help protect people, then what exactly IS their job? Making money for the government by handing out parking tickets?

So if a cop is walking by and sees a guy beating up an elderly woman and stealing her purse, he is under no obligation -- and it isn't considered his duty as a police officer -- to help her?

k_and_e · #**371** 05.06.2020, 19:54

	Quote:	Pancakes
	Well, then... that's (part of) the problem right there. If it's not the job of the police to help protect people, then what exactly IS their job? Making money for the government by handing out parking tickets? So if a cop is walking by and sees a guy beating up an elderly woman and stealing her purse, he is under no obligation -- and it isn't considered his duty as a police officer -- to help her?

The police is typically responsible for maintaining public order and safety, enforcing the law, and preventing, detecting, and investigating criminal activities. These functions are known as policing. (according to Brittanica).

If you would take that literally, the cop's task would be first to make sure that the guy is caught.

amogles · #**372** 05.06.2020, 20:29

	Quote:	Urs Max
	That's just the LAPD's motto, not a legally binding order. Still: whom or what are they to serve and protect, and from whom or what? Kindly point me to the law, regulation, or similar, on the federal or state level, that says the police are to protect the public, the people.

At the end of the day police officers are just civilians with a fancy uniform. They don't really have many actually legally founded priniciples conferring them special rights. I don't know if the US has this but in the UK there is something called a citizen's arrest. Any civilian may arrest any other civilian in a public space, including even a police officer, if they see a crime being committed.

This raises the sticky question of the people who filmed Floyd's death but didn't go in and place a citizen's arrest on the officer in question. Are they technically just as guilty as the police officers who didn't help?

The reason of course is, the law says one thing but in reality they'd be more likely to have their skulls smashed in if they tried to apply it.

3Wishes · #**373** 05.06.2020, 21:30

	Quote:	amogles
	...This raises the sticky question of the people who filmed Floyd's death but didn't go in and place a citizen's arrest on the officer in question. Are they technically just as guilty as the police officers who didn't help? The reason of course is, the law says one thing but in reality they'd be more likely to have their skulls smashed in if they tried to apply it.

There's a fine line for a bystander. With four officers present, any attempt to conduct a citizen's arrest would be construed as interfering with law enforcement doing their jobs and would at best wind up in said citizen being arrested him/herself by the other three officers. At worst, said citizen ends up on the ground with a knee to the neck too. Good quora discussion here, including a video of a person who confronts an officer in an unmarked car:
https://www.quora.com/What-are-the-r...police-officer

Urs Max · #**374** 05.06.2020, 22:41

	Quote:	amogles
	I don't know if the US has this but in the UK there is something called a citizen's arrest. Any civilian may arrest any other civilian in a public space, including even a police officer, if they see a crime being committed.

Citizens arrest exist here as well, but the way I understand it it's more of a detention. You need to
a) have basically caught the baddy in the act, or
b) have been asked to help by law enforcement themselves.
You can only use as much force as is really necessary, which is probably just a tad more than the baddy uses. That's why a shoplifter who's held up by shop security can't be pushed to the floor or handcuffed, maybe (not sure) not even if they run off. If the accused simply refuses a bag search and stays where they are, shop security basically can't touch them.

Urs Max · #**375** 05.06.2020, 23:00

	Quote:	k_and_e
	The police is typically responsible for maintaining public order and safety, enforcing the law, and preventing, detecting, and investigating criminal activities. These functions are known as policing. (according to Brittanica). If you would take that literally, the cop's task would be first to make sure that the guy is caught.

Mises Institute writes:

	Quote:
	“Neither the Constitution, nor state law, impose a general duty upon police officers or other governmental officials to protect individual persons from harm — even when they know the harm will occur,” said Darren L. Hutchinson, a professor and associate dean at the University of Florida School of Law. “Police can watch someone attack you, refuse to intervene and not violate the Constitution.” The Supreme Court has repeatedly held that the government has only a duty to protect persons who are “in custody,” he pointed out.

and

	Quote:
	“Courts have rejected the argument that students are in custody of school officials while they are on campus,” Mr. Hutchinson said. “Custody is narrowly confined to situations where a person loses his or her freedom to move freely and seek assistance on their own — such as prisons, jails, or mental institutions.”

Pancakes · #**376** 05.06.2020, 23:06

	Quote:	Urs Max
	Mises Institute writes: and

So, according to what you wrote / quoted above, the cops who had detained Floyd and had him handcuffed, etc. were indeed responsible for protecting him, by law.

Ouchboy · #**377** 05.06.2020, 23:42

	Quote:	Urs Max
	Mises Institute writes: and

he was arrested, that constitutes custody

omtatsat · #**378** 06.06.2020, 07:36

	Quote:	amogles
	At the end of the day police officers are just civilians with a fancy uniform. They don't really have many actually legally founded priniciples conferring them special rights. I don't know if the US has this but in the UK there is something called a citizen's arrest. Any civilian may arrest any other civilian in a public space, including even a police officer, if they see a crime being committed. This raises the sticky question of the people who filmed Floyd's death but didn't go in and place a citizen's arrest on the officer in question. Are they technically just as guilty as the police officers who didn't help? The reason of course is, the law says one thing but in reality they'd be more likely to have their skulls smashed in if they tried to apply it.

The thing is these type of police are not citizens. They are wild animals. Who ever heard if arresting a wild animal.There are other more direct ways to bring down a wild animal

FCBarca · #**379** 06.06.2020, 07:52

UN Human Rights Council statements on systemic racism in US

https://www.ohchr.org/EN/NewsEvents/...25927&LangID=E

Full Circle · #**380** 06.06.2020, 11:34

	Quote:	FCBarca
	Those claiming there is no systemic racism in the US are dissociated from reality, analogous to climate change deniers or flat earth theorists - ignoring all empirical evidence White privilege makes you either complicit, complacent or altogether ignorant - nevertheless, ultimately repugnant

Thank goodness we have these unquantifiable concepts we can blame, otherwise we may have to start questioning why a minority community commits such a disproportionate amount of crime.