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Old 07.06.2020, 04:30
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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No, you're right. I am not negating the fact, that the police didn't behave in a manner unbecoming an officer. Absolutely. I'm just saying that if the person involved, hadn't been a criminal under the influence of drugs and suffering from several health conditions, that the outcome most likely would have been different.
So basically you’re saying if he’d come from different demographic he’d have had a better chance of surviving the ordeal, better education, employment prospects, healthcare etc...

Well you could be right in the sense that if he had all those privileges he probably would not have been it that position in the first place. But once in the situation it was irrelevant.

Now I could be wrong but I think the protests cover all aspects of racism in society not just policing and in that context your response is a failure.
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  #402  
Old 07.06.2020, 07:00
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Re: Bufallo NY, 75 year old assault by Police

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I believe that you can’t have a functioning democracy without a police force that polices at the will of the people and you don’t have that in the US today. But it also means the police men and women should not have to fear for their lives every time they go on the beat and you don’t have that either.

I expect that this problem can only be solved if the entire issue of gun control is addressed in addition to police reform. Unarmed policing works in Ireland and the UK because neither side expects to encounter lethal situations on a daily basis.
This. While I don't condone any criminal or even discriminatory behaviour coming from police officers, I do see their issues and their side of the story too.

I'm actually shocked by some posts here, have never seen so much disdain against police. (I did wonder though - is it police as an institution in general, all USA police forces or to whom exactly are people extending their judgements). Of course there are "good cops and bad cops", corrupted and honest, etc etc, in general. But from acknowledging that to painting them all with the same brush....I wonder where that comes from.

Besides, it's the prosecutors and other people higher up in the penal system that are mostly responsible for many of the injustices some people are talking about here. Ironically. Justice system is not so just. But I sincerely doubt it's an American only problem.

Last edited by greenmount; 07.06.2020 at 09:49. Reason: grammar
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  #403  
Old 07.06.2020, 08:19
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

In the US the racism begins at the very top. In Congress, in the Supreme Court and in The Administration.

In Switzerland it doesn’t start that high. However it is much too prevalent as this Swissinfo story demonstrates.

https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/racism-...ling-/45806410
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  #404  
Old 07.06.2020, 08:32
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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Unbecoming? He's a murderer
Lol. Spot on. There's even substantial evidence for that.....luckily.

I had to look up "unbecoming" again, see what on earth does it mean in English....imho that's a word some parents tell the children when they react not very gracefully to whatever injustice comes their way, perceived injustice or otherwise.
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  #405  
Old 07.06.2020, 09:03
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Re: Bufallo NY, 75 year old assault by Police

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I believe that you can’t have a functioning democracy without a police force that polices at the will of the people and you don’t have that in the US today. But it also means the police men and women should not have to fear for their lives every time they go on the beat and you don’t have that either.

I expect that this problem can only be solved if the entire issue of gun control is addressed in addition to police reform. Unarmed policing works in Ireland and the UK because neither side expects to encounter lethal situations on a daily basis.
People join the army. If they get sent to war zones and fear for their life then they should not have joined the army. And the same goes for the police. War zone USA.

And violent cops were probably violent before they became cops. They maybe think that in the police force their violence will be tolerated( which is true to a great extent ). They simply have to choose better what people they put in the police force.

Last edited by omtatsat; 07.06.2020 at 09:13.
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  #406  
Old 07.06.2020, 09:50
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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To be precise, that's a home invasion, where he put a pistol to a pregnant woman's belly and then proceeded to rob her.
I wonder if she also considers him to be a 'gentle giant'
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  #407  
Old 07.06.2020, 09:56
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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What's that supposed to mean? That we should doubt any conviction because 'America'?


Anyway, he served 5 years for aggravated robbery. That's robbery with a deadly weapon.
Anyway, he served 5 years for aggravated robbery. That's robbery with a deadly weapon.

Whats your point ? That he was a criminal anyhow so its OK what the cop did?
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  #408  
Old 07.06.2020, 10:02
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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Anyway, he served 5 years for aggravated robbery. That's robbery with a deadly weapon.

Whats your point ? That he was a criminal anyhow so its OK what the cop did?


Most probably.....unfortunately this is the only way some people can see this episode.
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  #409  
Old 07.06.2020, 10:05
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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In the US the racism begins at the very top. In Congress, in the Supreme Court and in The Administration.

In Switzerland it doesn’t start that high. However it is much too prevalent as this Swissinfo story demonstrates.

https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/racism-...ling-/45806410

Regrettably, those examples are far from exclusive to Suisse or US.

I have this debate with my wife from time to time, women universally suffer from sexism but I continue to assert people of color are particularly & consistently the object of the most intolerable prejudices. Then imagine women of color

Wife is Suisse and has a close relative who is police (formerly as was thankfully, fired), also an alcoholic, guilty of domestic violence, DUI among other many egregious traits & of course racism - for me, it illustrates a composite for a stereotype of police I've noted across countries & cultures. I think the job, power/authority and violence underscores the infamous adage of 'absolute power corrupting absolutely'.

Years ago I also dated a sister of a cop back in my Chicago days and the police culture there is something really frightening
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  #410  
Old 07.06.2020, 10:08
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

Downtown Seattle got looted - including Cheesecake Factory.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.krm...bMcGL/amp.html
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  #411  
Old 07.06.2020, 10:13
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

Brilliant, took the most prized version - the strawberry one
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  #412  
Old 07.06.2020, 10:15
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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Downtown Seattle got looted - including Cheesecake Factory.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.krm...bMcGL/amp.html
Yeaahh. I would also loot for such a cheesecake!
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  #413  
Old 07.06.2020, 10:26
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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Yeaahh. I would also loot for such a cheesecake!
The reaction of people I read was hilarious. Interesting phenomenon. "You go, girl!", "Get yourself another". You got it all, in the US. Professional militant campaigners, looters, cake thieves..
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  #414  
Old 07.06.2020, 10:29
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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The reaction of people I read was hilarious. Interesting phenomenon. "You go, girl!", "Get yourself another". You got it all, in the US. Professional militant campaigners, looters, cake thieves..
" let them eat cake!" Trump
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  #415  
Old 07.06.2020, 10:30
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

The protest and riots worldwide are different now, in a sense that they were not seen resembling such a caliber since 1960’s.

Large anti-racism protests also took place in a number of other countries. In the UK, Parliament Square in central London was filled with people despite calls by the government to avoid mass gatherings for fear of spreading the coronavirus.
In Australia, there were major protests in the cities of Sydney, Melbourne and Brisbane that focused on the treatment of indigenous Australians. There were also demonstrations in France, Germany and Spain.


George Floyd: Huge protests against racism held across US https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52951093

It very much summarizes it all in one sentence: Decades of government-sanctioned segregation have also seen inequalities across school systems, housing and other public resources.
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  #416  
Old 07.06.2020, 10:32
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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Downtown Seattle got looted - including Cheesecake Factory.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.krm...bMcGL/amp.html
Anyone who riots or loots distracts from the cause. Shame on them.

The cheesecake looks good though... could be used as inadvertent marketing for the company.
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  #417  
Old 07.06.2020, 10:33
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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The protest and riots worldwide are different now, in a sense that they were not seen resembling such a caliber since 1960’s.

Large anti-racism protests also took place in a number of other countries. In the UK, Parliament Square in central London was filled with people despite calls by the government to avoid mass gatherings for fear of spreading the coronavirus.
In Australia, there were major protests in the cities of Sydney, Melbourne and Brisbane that focused on the treatment of indigenous Australians. There were also demonstrations in France, Germany and Spain.


George Floyd: Huge protests against racism held across US https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52951093

It very much summarizes it all in one sentence: Decades of government-sanctioned segregation have also seen inequalities across school systems, housing and other public resources.
These are nothing compared to the 60's riots
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  #418  
Old 07.06.2020, 10:33
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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The reaction of people I read was hilarious. Interesting phenomenon. "You go, girl!", "Get yourself another". You got it all, in the US. Professional militant campaigners, looters, cake thieves..
Looked to me more like a rescue. That cheese cake was in jeopardy.
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  #419  
Old 07.06.2020, 11:06
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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...I'm actually shocked by some posts here, have never seen so much disdain against police. (I did wonder though - is it police as an institution in general, all USA police forces or to whom exactly are people extending their judgements). Of course there are "good cops and bad cops", corrupted and honest, etc etc, in general. But from acknowledging that to painting them all with the same brush....I wonder where that comes from.

Besides, it's the prosecutors and other people higher up in the penal system that are mostly responsible for many of the injustices some people are talking about here. Ironically. Justice system is not so just. But I sincerely doubt it's an American only problem.
The American problem is perhaps more visible, simply because it's a big country and their news goes around the world like wildfire. Meanwhile no one outside of Europe (or maybe even in it) cares much what happens in Sweden Switzerland. Also with social media it's much easier to spread bad cop stories and skew the narrative. You are right about the entire system being messed up. Cops on video are simply easier for the public to have as a target instead of unknown prosecutors or biased juries that might not even recognize their own bias.

I don't know about the rest of the world, but cops in the States don't receive much formal education or training. You don't need a degree to be a cop. You can have a prior criminal record. Each department has its own police training program and you can be certified as a cop with full rights to use deadly force in any situation in less than a year. One of the cops that stood by while Floyd died had 7 convictions and a bunch of traffic violations on his record but still got hired.

And no, two of the bystanders weren't "only on the job 4 days". They'd been through the department's training program since 2019. They'd been "full officers" for 4 days, but even then they should have known the right thing to do was to get Chauvin off Floyd, particularly once the suspect was not moving or breathing any more.
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  #420  
Old 07.06.2020, 11:20
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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The American problem is perhaps more visible, simply because it's a big country and their news goes around the world like wildfire. Meanwhile no one outside of Europe (or maybe even in it) cares much what happens in Sweden Switzerland. Also with social media it's much easier to spread bad cop stories and skew the narrative. You are right about the entire system being messed up. Cops on video are simply easier for the public to have as a target instead of unknown prosecutors or biased juries that might not even recognize their own bias.

I don't know about the rest of the world, but cops in the States don't receive much formal education or training. You don't need a degree to be a cop. You can have a prior criminal record. Each department has its own police training program and you can be certified as a cop with full rights to use deadly force in any situation in less than a year. One of the cops that stood by while Floyd died had 7 convictions and a bunch of traffic violations on his record but still got hired.

And no, two of the bystanders weren't "only on the job 4 days". They'd been through the department's training program since 2019. They'd been "full officers" for 4 days, but even then they should have known the right thing to do was to get Chauvin off Floyd, particularly once the suspect was not moving or breathing any more.
Lets look at . The police are becoming rapidly " militarized " like everywhere.
Police aren't supposed to think ( in general ). They are only to follow orders. Like a machine!
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