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  #421  
Old 07.06.2020, 12:26
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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Anyone who riots or loots distracts from the cause. Shame on them.
So right.

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Looked to me more like a rescue. That cheese cake was in jeopardy.
Shall we have a protect the cheesecake rights riot..

Can you see this happen in CH? If not, what are we doing differently here than in the US?
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  #422  
Old 07.06.2020, 12:58
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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To be precise, that's a home invasion, where he put a pistol to a pregnant woman's belly and then proceeded to rob her.
I don't understand why this man is being made a martyr. He was a nasty piece of work, why would universities want to name scholarships after him?

(Just to be clear I think the policeman who killed him was utterly wrong and should be convicted. I do believe black lives matter. I don't care what colour, race, sexuality, religion etc someone is - all that matters is that someone is a good/nice person).
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  #423  
Old 07.06.2020, 13:04
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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So right.

Shall we have a protect the cheesecake rights riot..

Can you see this happen in CH? If not, what are we doing differently here than in the US?
Its obvious what we are doing differently! Who would steal a disgusing CH made cheese cake. I heard they give it to the dogs for their birthday!
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  #424  
Old 07.06.2020, 13:15
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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Its obvious what we are doing differently! Who would steal a disgusing CH made cheese cake. I heard they give it to the dogs for their birthday!
Omtatsat, sometimes I think you're a distant relative of Trump.
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  #425  
Old 07.06.2020, 13:18
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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Omtatsat, sometimes I think you're a distant relative of Trump.
Because he likes US cheesecakes?

I disagree with him. Tarte au citron made locally, here, trumps anything from prefab Cheesecake factory.

Last edited by MusicChick; 07.06.2020 at 23:10.
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  #426  
Old 07.06.2020, 13:26
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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He was chocked to death. For nine minutes. He was unconscious for about 7 or 8 of them. It really does not matter how healthy you are - if you are chocked till you black out and then for a significant time... you die. It’s really that simple. The attempts to dilute the story with the obvious attempts to shame the victim make me just as sick as the actual death.
For one, he wasn't choked to death. What happened was positional asphyxia, that's the same way Eric Garner died in New York City and from whom the term "Stop, I can't breathe" stems.

In a bulleting plublished by the U.S. department of justice in 1995 the following contributing risk factors have been stated:
Quote:
Certain factors may render some indi-
viduals more susceptible to positional
asphyxia following a violent struggle,
particularly when prone in a face-down
position:
■ Obesity.
■ Alcohol and high drug use.
■ An enlarged heart (renders an indi-
vidual more susceptible to a cardiac
arrhythmia under conditions of low
blood oxygen and stress).
Subesquently, it wasn't the knee on the neck which killed Geroge Floyd but rather the weight which was put on his back. The lack of immediate response by the officer only furthered the problem.

Meanwhile, more black people have died as a direct result from the riots and the looting than from the original incident. I would like to digress and take this moment and highlight one of them. RIP Captain David Dorn. A 77 year old retired Captain of the St. Louis Police force who answered a call to a pawn shop who was being looted. He died from a gunshot wound to his torso. He was a father, a grandfather and an upstanding citizen.
You see, I was in Ferguson, Mo 2 days after the inital protest following Michael Brown's shooting took place and it was mayhem. The national guard were also deployed there and I found a whole city in shambles. It is absolutely disgusting and despicable how the media and a minority of people are praising and glorifying criminals. Eric Garner was arrested over 30 times since the 80s. Michael Brown was the gentle giant, who after robbing a convenience store, went on to attack a police officer. George Floyd is being depicted on murals with wings and the same dignity as a Mona Lisa hanging at the Louvre. So be it.
Should George Floyd have died? Absolutely not. Could George Floyd have prevented his own death? I believe he could have.


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So basically you’re saying if he’d come from different demographic he’d have had a better chance of surviving the ordeal, better education, employment prospects, healthcare etc...

Well you could be right in the sense that if he had all those privileges he probably would not have been it that position in the first place. But once in the situation it was irrelevant.

Now I could be wrong but I think the protests cover all aspects of racism in society not just policing and in that context your response is a failure.
A different demographic from what, a drug adict and a criminal? In that case, I agree.
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  #427  
Old 07.06.2020, 13:37
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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Also with social media it's much easier to spread bad cop stories and skew the narrative.
Nah, they are corrupt.

Ive been assaulted and falsely accused of assault by a racist Hawaiian cop. All of his coworkers knew it was complete BS, though of course nobody did anything about it. The blue wall...And those are the 'good cops':roll eyes:

I once saw two cops cars in a beachside park, 4 am, parked opposite one another, with the driver's windows next to each other. Lighters were flashing, and the acrid stench of burning crystal meth filled the air. I had to hide in the bushes for a minute,then do a sneaky backtrack to not be seen by them. They know how to make witnesses disappear, and where the sharks feed on the coastline.

Then there was that time I was riding my bicycle home from work late one Jan. night when a cop passed me, turned around at the next opportunity, then put on his flashing cop lights and floored it at me, though i was 'luckily' able to ditch my bike as i dove over a snowbank (recently plowed snow) on the side of the road. I assume that's considered assault with a deadly weapon?

As a teenager i worked at a country club, owned by the Italian(American) mafia. I was a groundskeeper (think Bill Murray in Caddyshack, lol). My boss was an old Irish(American) guy, and all the local cops were Irish (American). Tickets and legal problems against important CC members would be brought to my boss, who would let the cops know which tickets they needed to make disappear. The cops got the whole golf course to themselves for free on Mondays.

I could go on..

I haven't been around here in CH long enough to notice all of the corruption, but from what my Swiss friends and coworkers tell me, the cops are racist AF.
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  #428  
Old 07.06.2020, 13:49
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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Because he likes US cheesecakes?

I disagree with him. Tart au citron made locally, here, trumps anything from prefab Cheesecake factory.
Yes. She could have at least put it in a bagSo inhygenic

Its called " self service"
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  #429  
Old 07.06.2020, 13:54
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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Should George Floyd have died? Absolutely not. Could George Floyd have prevented his own death? I believe he could have.
There is some truth in what you've written, LiB. We shouldn't make saints out of criminals BUT we should trust our police NOT to kill them unprovoked.
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  #430  
Old 07.06.2020, 13:57
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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Yes. She could have at least put it in a bagSo inhygenic
You mean because of the covid?

I am getting messages from my NYC and LA buddies worried about the CV numbers rising in a couple of days. But it may not be true, rioters wear masks.
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  #431  
Old 07.06.2020, 13:59
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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You mean because of the covid?

I am getting messages from my NYC and LA buddies worried about the CV numbers rising in a couple of days. But it may not be true, rioters wear masks.
No. So dusty on the streets in USA.
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Old 07.06.2020, 14:55
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Re: Bufallo NY, 75 year old assault by Police

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People join the army. If they get sent to war zones and fear for their life then they should not have joined the army. And the same goes for the police. War zone USA .
Itís the people who donít fear for their lives that I fear! Every time you draw arms from the armory, go through the process of dealing with live rounds and confirm you understand the rules of engagement you should take it seriously because you are being given the conditions under which you are authorized to take a human life and that is a very serious matter.

If you donít fear for your life when you are going into a situation where you are likely to meet someone who would willingly take your life, you are not normal. But you learn to deal with it. Itís the guys that donít fear, that donít take it seriously the usually make the FU.
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  #433  
Old 08.06.2020, 08:59
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

Where do you come from?

Rassism?
Curiosity?
Small talk?
Flirt?
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  #434  
Old 08.06.2020, 10:10
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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To be precise, that's a home invasion, where he put a pistol to a pregnant woman's belly and then proceeded to rob her.
I think this is the issue that the majority of non-blacks have with the Black Lives Matter movement. This heinous crime probably didn't even get reported in any newspapers, and was very likely committed against a black woman. That's the crux of the problem, Black Lives DO matter, but in that case ALL Black Lives should matter, and not only when taken by a white cop. The vast majority of Black Lives lost are to other black men, however it's the murder of George Floyd that sparks protests followed by looting and riots. It's very difficult to reconcile these two issues.
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  #435  
Old 08.06.2020, 12:13
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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I think this is the issue that the majority of non-blacks have with the Black Lives Matter movement. This heinous crime probably didn't even get reported in any newspapers, and was very likely committed against a black woman. That's the crux of the problem, Black Lives DO matter, but in that case ALL Black Lives should matter, and not only when taken by a white cop. The vast majority of Black Lives lost are to other black men, however it's the murder of George Floyd that sparks protests followed by looting and riots. It's very difficult to reconcile these two issues.
No.

Black lives lost to other black men are followed by prosecution: investigation, hearing, trial, sentencing, etc. Black lives lost to the police are followed by nothing.

It's not about the numbers, it's the perception of justice by the living ones.
Should a murder be prosecuted or not?
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Old 08.06.2020, 12:56
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

incredibly long post ahead.


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For one, he wasn't choked to death. What happened was positional asphyxia, that's the same way Eric Garner died in New York City and from whom the term "Stop, I can't breathe" stems.
In a bulleting plublished by the U.S. department of justice in 1995 the following contributing risk factors have been stated:

Subesquently, it wasn't the knee on the neck which killed Geroge Floyd but rather the weight which was put on his back. The lack of immediate response by the officer only furthered the problem.
that is an incredibly uninformed comment. almost as much as me trying to lecture Grumpy on cheeses, that much. This is important to point out as there is , by now, what seems to be a deliberate attempt by you to engage in apologetical rethoric towards what is murder; not "unbecoming behaviour", not "immediate lack of response",etc .



The weight on his back is a factor cause it prevents you from adjust your position and wear your muscles down for resistance, it does not equal pressing on the neck for 8 minutes. Even worse, the fact that he kept it after he lost consciousness.


So yeah positional asphixia did it, as in a knee on a neck (i.e a ventricular constriction while prone IS positional axphixia, even the wikil tells you that.). you are misusing the term, the way it would not be positional asphixia would be someone applying a standing guillotine.

you don't need to take my word for it though, all of us who trained grappling have understood that position in one way or another. here is Joe Rogan explaining it.
https://youtu.be/Ot_TDGuXX7g?t=438
for those who want to figure out what similar positions we run into that are "light versions" of what George Floyd went through
https://youtu.be/c_3OqoLfQnU?t=65
but maybe that is not sufficient, maybe you are like Dave Hollenback thinking that is not a real position . Here is Dan Camarillo. who is Dan? Dan is the guy who restrained a guy running away from a car crash by mounting the fugitive and restraining him until cops arrived.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qA5uRCKF5Ww
but ok.. i saw how he seems to be able to declare the intent of the police officer, etc.
here is Ryan Tillman and Rener Gracie who explains (Gracie) with all the caveats of other pressure why this is wrong and focusing on the neck issue.
https://youtu.be/IvqPMaLC8Rw?t=337
And here is Freddy Trillo, 25 vet and black belt.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0HGqZzd5l2o


So for you, to come and believe that it was the weight on the back alone did it, because it somehow reinforces your idea of no "ill intent" or whatever it is somewhat cringeworthy.


Here is the nuanced opinoin of a Lung Doctor


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0oqE...yv66rnfK9Vvq2k

In the end, this post isn't so much for you, your constant use of turningpoint USA like points already makes it seem to me that you are not a willing interlocutor but an apologist, or even about dunking on you.
This is for people who might fall for that amount of misdirection and misuse of facts.
so a short summary on your points and replies for it

black on black crime is 90%. -> white on white crime is 81%. Do you think this is a racial component or the fact that crime is most likely to happen intraracially given how communities are constructed?

why don't " this" people protest/worry/complain about black on black crime -> They do, and that is a concerted effort to get black representation on legislative bodies, city councils, etc to apply those standards. Also, it isn't like black people don't report crime to the police to seek justice on the System. So this is leads us to:


why do they only complain about cops killing/brutality/racism-> Because the way to seek justice doesn't work when you are in possibility of being being phisically/legally hurt or worse by the system you are calling on for help.

but the crime stats show... -> yes, there is a disproportianely amount of crime committed by black people. Is that also the result of policies (i.e redlining) that had led to being in such conditions as to have no other recourse. The fact that Police are required to fullfil quotas so they go to sectors they now have had legal problems and keep the cycle going?. Stats show a disproportionate amount of stops for traffic citations on black people too. and that isn't a crime. Or are they also bad drivers?

the rioters/looters and the cop that died ->
arrest them and prosecute them. It is an attestment to the system itself how many cop killers are found and convicted vs cops that go down on minorities.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zp5ht8ZwTaY

oh and just so there is no doubt what George Floyd went through, criminal or not,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cf3RdaYlru0

if somebody thinks that ANYONE deserves that and not the proper handling and a day in court despite being an Nth time criminal, then A Moral compass Check is in order
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Last edited by Ouchboy; 08.06.2020 at 13:24. Reason: added lung doc link. Goddamn youtube tags dont work
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  #437  
Old 08.06.2020, 13:03
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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No.

Black lives lost to other black men are followed by prosecution: investigation, hearing, trial, sentencing, etc. Black lives lost to the police are followed by nothing.

It's not about the numbers, it's the perception of justice by the living ones.
Should a murder be prosecuted or not?
Also illogical, the number of unsolved black on black homicides far exceeds any instances of unjustified police killings against black people. Police are also held to account for unlawful killings, the trouble is not all cases are as clear cut as with George Floyd so it's hard to get a conviction.
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  #438  
Old 08.06.2020, 13:49
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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Also illogical, the number of unsolved black on black homicides far exceeds any instances of unjustified police killings against black people. Police are also held to account for unlawful killings, the trouble is not all cases are as clear cut as with George Floyd so it's hard to get a conviction.
Are criminals worse than cops therefore cops are good? In simpler terms: using the same rule to measure criminals and the police? Something doesn't add here.

People expects a higher standard of conduct from the cops keeping order than from criminals since cops have literally one job: protect people and property. One job.
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Old 08.06.2020, 14:25
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

I'm a bit bewildered by what appears to be thinly veiled attempts to somehow justify this crime. As I said from the beginning, it's like saying "totally fine you abused your kid, seeing you were abused yourself". It's not ok.

Should he be a martyr? Probably not. In my book, he isn't. Was he a saint? Probably not. What he is is a SYMBOL for something that has been a long way coming. Whether it's this guy or whether it would have been someone 2 weeks from now, it's a long overdue explosion and uncovering of deeply seated issues that have never really been addressed, or at best to an insufficient extent.

That this murder was particularly horrific just added fuel to a small flame that understandably turned into a roaring fire. To somehow lessen the crime by using irrelevant comparisons such as black-on-black crime with no attention to underlying factors (the whole point of the current protests) is moral relativism.
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Old 08.06.2020, 14:34
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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Why are you choosing to focus on the looters rather than the real problem? Does the killing of multiple innocent people not concern you?
The looters and rioters have certainly killed more people than the police.

Tom
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