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Old 08.06.2020, 13:41
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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The looters and rioters have certainly killed more people than the police.

Tom
The problem is bigger than only last week.
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  #442  
Old 08.06.2020, 13:50
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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No.

Black lives lost to other black men are followed by prosecution: investigation, hearing, trial, sentencing, etc. Black lives lost to the police are followed by nothing.

It's not about the numbers, it's the perception of justice by the living ones.
Should a murder be prosecuted or not?
Do you have any link to back that up?

What is the rate of succesful prosecutions in black on black crime?

Do you see BLM protesters put pressure on police investigators or stand outside the courthouses to try and change that?

Or is it more something they don't want to know about, that they find excuses for and talk away.
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  #443  
Old 08.06.2020, 14:16
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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Are criminals worse than cops therefore cops are good? In simpler terms: using the same rule to measure criminals and the police? Something doesn't add here.

People expects a higher standard of conduct from the cops keeping order than from criminals since cops have literally one job: protect people and property. One job.
I can't see what the point is that you're trying to make. In the eyes of the law, everyone should be treated equally.
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  #444  
Old 08.06.2020, 14:19
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

I read this thread and wonder why so many people have left recently.
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  #445  
Old 08.06.2020, 14:42
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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Are criminals worse than cops therefore cops are good? In simpler terms: using the same rule to measure criminals and the police? Something doesn't add here.

People expects a higher standard of conduct from the cops keeping order than from criminals since cops have literally one job: protect people and property. One job.
Yeah, it's like they're basically saying: "Well, some black people kill other black people. Therefore, what's the problem if a white cop suffocates a black person while they're handcuffed and pleading for their life?"

It makes no sense.

That is... Unless you're racist, I guess.
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  #446  
Old 08.06.2020, 14:43
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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I can't see what the point is that you're trying to make. In the eyes of the law, everyone should be treated equally.
Exactly. And the black community in the US feels thatís currently not the case. They specifically feel that cops donít seem to need to follow the law and even when they completely overstep it hardly ever pay a fair price for it. The measurable facts seem to support that feeling.

The big problem with the repeated protests is really simple: there is no leader, no Martin Luther King who formulates concrete demands to fix it. The US has been extremely creative to protect the privilege of the white middle class while making sure it looks not racist. From school financing to the university system to employment laws - the situation of minorities isnít improving and wonít as long as the election system relies so much on donations. There is no way to make the privileged give up their wealth... and the republicans have a century and a half of track record trying to exclude people from elections. If owning a gun is a right but voting is a privilege do at some point people who are pushed down for generations use violence.

I think most politicians prefer a race riot every few years over making actual changes that would significantly hurt their voters.
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Old 08.06.2020, 14:48
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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the republicans have a century and a half of track record trying to exclude people from elections
How did you come up with that fantasy number?

Tom
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  #448  
Old 08.06.2020, 15:06
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

Although not excluding people from elections, gerrymandering exists on both sides. So they've both got an impressive record of it. The democratic party has been around longer but I wouldn't go giving them the title of almost 200 years of excluding your views from making a difference.
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Old 08.06.2020, 15:42
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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Yeah, it's like they're basically saying: "Well, some black people kill other black people. Therefore, what's the problem if a white cop suffocates a black person while they're handcuffed and pleading for their life?"

It makes no sense.

That is... Unless you're racist, I guess.
So, for you, black person kills black person, sort of OK.
White person kills black person. Definitely not OK.

So in your view, the acceptability of the crime depends on the skin colour of the murderer?

But you aren't racist, right?
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  #450  
Old 08.06.2020, 15:45
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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Although not excluding people from elections, gerrymandering exists on both sides. So they've both got an impressive record of it. The democratic party has been around longer but I wouldn't go giving them the title of almost 200 years of excluding your views from making a difference.
The Democratic party was still suppressing the black vote at a time that the GOP was already on the side of equality. The Democratic party has a dirty past over its entwinement with the KKK. The Democratic party was the party that defended slavery well into a time that the rest of the civilized world had banned it. If you want to take a historic perspective, the Dems have no moral high grand on this matter.
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  #451  
Old 08.06.2020, 15:59
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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The Democratic party was still suppressing the black vote at a time that the GOP was already on the side of equality. The Democratic party has a dirty past over its entwinement with the KKK. The Democratic party was the party that defended slavery well into a time that the rest of the civilized world had banned it. If you want to take a historic perspective, the Dems have no moral high grand on this matter.
...something that has almost totally flipped over the last 80-odd years.

Although gerrymandering has been an issue in the US for over 200 years (and the product of an idiotic electoral system that allows it), it was never previously practised on the industrial scale the Republicans have been operating since about 2000 and particularly since 2010.

A nice summary here
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  #452  
Old 08.06.2020, 16:58
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

Democrats/ Republicans. They are all bad. Letís not divert the topic into another slagfest. There are already lots of threads where you can express your opinions.
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Old 08.06.2020, 17:11
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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So, for you, black person kills black person, sort of OK.
White person kills black person. Definitely not OK.

So in your view, the acceptability of the crime depends on the skin colour of the murderer?

But you aren't racist, right?
No, I never said that a black person killing a black person is okay. And I don't know why you would choose to interpret it as that.

It's not mutually exclusive. It can be wrong for a black person to kill another black person AND wrong for a white cop to suffocate a black guy. The fact that some (not most) black people kill other blacks doesn't negate the problem of police brutality against blacks. And acknowledging the problem of police brutality and racism against blacks is not somehow negating the problem of black-on-black crime. Again, it's not mutually exclusive. And I don't think that black people in general (the majority of whom never kill anyone) should be blamed for when a white cop suffocates and kills a black guy.

And just because some blacks have killed other blacks, Floyd doesn't deserve to be suffocated by a cop while begging for his life. It's truly mind-blowing that some people don't seem to be able to understand that. White people kill other white people all the time.
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  #454  
Old 08.06.2020, 17:20
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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Floyd doesn't deserve to be suffocated by a cop while begging for his life. It's truly mind-blowing that some people don't seem to be able to understand that.

Everyone understands that, so I don't know where you are getting this from.
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  #455  
Old 08.06.2020, 17:27
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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Everyone understands that, so I don't know where you are getting this from.

Because of posts such as this one (but you have to consider everything that I wrote, not only the bit that you had quoted):

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I think this is the issue that the majority of non-blacks have with the Black Lives Matter movement. This heinous crime probably didn't even get reported in any newspapers, and was very likely committed against a black woman. That's the crux of the problem, Black Lives DO matter, but in that case ALL Black Lives should matter, and not only when taken by a white cop. The vast majority of Black Lives lost are to other black men, however it's the murder of George Floyd that sparks protests followed by looting and riots. It's very difficult to reconcile these two issues.
So my point was that just because black people aren't protesting against black-on-black crime doesn't mean that they should refrain from protesting about what happened to Floyd and about racism and police brutality against blacks in general.
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Old 08.06.2020, 17:40
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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No, I never said that a black person killing a black person is okay. And I don't know why you would choose to interpret it as that.
Welcome to the internet.
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  #457  
Old 08.06.2020, 20:41
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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Because of posts such as this one (but you have to consider everything that I wrote, not only the bit that you had quoted):

So my point was that just because black people aren't protesting against black-on-black crime doesn't mean that they should refrain from protesting about what happened to Floyd and about racism and police brutality against blacks in general.
People are correct to protest George Floyd's killing (not so much the looting, violence, pulling down of statues, vandalism etc.).

The question I posed is very simple, why do black lives matter *more* when a white person is involved?
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  #458  
Old 08.06.2020, 21:19
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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People are correct to protest George Floyd's killing (not so much the looting, violence, pulling down of statues, vandalism etc.).

The question I posed is very simple, why do black lives matter *more* when a white person is involved?
Black lifes don’t matter more when a white guy is involved per se. However, the fact that the victim is black does matter more when it seems that they had to die because of their race. So the protesters simply believe that the cop kneeled for nine minutes on his victim because he was black. Clearly the life of a black guy didn’t matter much to him... that’s “black lifes matter” in a nutshell. It doesn’t mean other life’s don’t, it’s just a very specific conversation that seems absolutely necessary in the US.
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  #459  
Old 08.06.2020, 21:30
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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Black lifes donít matter more when a white guy is involved per se. However, the fact that the victim is black does matter more when it seems that they had to die because of their race. So the protesters simply believe that the cop kneeled for nine minutes on his victim because he was black. Clearly the life of a black guy didnít matter much to him... thatís ďblack lifes matterĒ in a nutshell. It doesnít mean other lifeís donít, itís just a very specific conversation that seems absolutely necessary in the US.
Then we come back to the point that the number of black people killed by police (or whites) is dwarfed by the number of black people killed by other black people - so shouldn't that be the 'very specific conversation that seems absolutely necessary in the US'?
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Old 08.06.2020, 21:35
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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Black lifes donít matter more when a white guy is involved per se. However, the fact that the victim is black does matter more when it seems that they had to die because of their race.
So, a black cop murdering a white woman isn't racial?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooti...Justine_Damond

Tom
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