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  #481  
Old 09.06.2020, 12:35
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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Nobody is saying he deserved to die. Nobody is defending what those police officers did. It was terrible and inexcusable abuse of power and authority. Period.

Some of us are questioning the political instrumentalization of the tragedy. Some of us are questioning the big-picture narrative that is emerging here. the way some people are seeking to cynically use a tragedy to forward their own agenda.

This is a totally different matter.
Surely the big picture isn't some people using it cynically, it is the institutionalised racism endemic in many countries.

Diminishing this protest to a few cynical actors is at best woefully misguided and at worst deliberate obfuscation of a hugely important issue.
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  #482  
Old 09.06.2020, 12:47
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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There are not only quotas on hiring but also quotas for college admission and scholarships granted. . .all done in the name to help out the underpriviledged.
So just to be clear: high schools in the US are funded by the income tax of the local community. As a result do poor areas with lots of kids have far worse schools and less teachers per kid than rich areas with fewer kids. Not obviously racist, just incredible unfair to children.
However, if we know that black people weren’t allowed to buy property in the good areas till not too long ago does this simply mean that privileges are fortified and protected.
To make school funding fair in the way all other first world countries do it would translate to many billions of budgets moved to minorities. Yes, there are scholarships for minorities- but from the total of scholarships granted are they even there disadvantaged: https://www.racialequitytools.org/re...holarships.pdf
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  #483  
Old 09.06.2020, 13:14
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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So just to be clear: high schools in the US are funded by the income tax of the local community.
Property taxes, not income taxes. Not all states have income taxes.

Anyway, only partially, slightly less than 50%, the rest is federal and state.

Like here, except that here it IS income taxes.

Tom
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  #484  
Old 09.06.2020, 13:16
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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There are not only quotas on hiring but also quotas for college admission and scholarships granted. . .all done in the name to help out the underpriviledged.
Yes, white students are massive beneficiaries of this at top establishments. Were it not for these quotas, they would barely get a student in above the American Asians applying.
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  #485  
Old 09.06.2020, 14:43
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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IMO, you can't have non-violent cops in a violent, armed-up, almost militarized society like the US.

Partially agree, the brutality though , like almost everywhere, starts at the top.

Last edited by Guest; 09.06.2020 at 15:38. Reason: Fixed broken quote
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  #486  
Old 09.06.2020, 16:01
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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Partially agree, the brutality though , like almost everywhere, starts at the top.
I disgaree. Leadership is about pacing and leading (to quote a neurological concept). A leader who is fundamentally different to the people he leads doesn't gain much traction. Leaders mimic the thinking and actions of those who follow them, maybe subconsciously and maybe intentionally. Leaders maybe coin the words to eloquently (or otherwise) justify, rationalize and codify what people further down are thinking and doing but cannot themselves put into words. Violent and divided societies are so, because first of all, the violence and division ferments and finds acceptance at the grass roots level and rises from there, to the point that followers become blind to the same faults in their leaders.

Today we see the violent masses expressing their tendency for violence and division in a violent way, while blaming their leaders for being such bad examples. Are we supposed to buy that?

This is why I keep on repeating, that healing needs to start at the grassroots level too. If people could reach out more while seeking to understand rather than judge.
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  #487  
Old 09.06.2020, 17:04
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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IMO, you can't have non-violent cops in a violent, armed-up, almost militarized society like the US.
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Partially agree, the brutality though , like almost everywhere, starts at the top.
Top, middle and bottom. It seems almost to be something inherent in the American mass psyche. It's nothing new, though, and the fact that we're talking about race-related violence isn't new either. Violence against, and oppression of, racial minorities, and taking pride therein, dates back to the founding fathers and is evident all the way through US history.
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  #488  
Old 09.06.2020, 17:28
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

Regretfully it’s not just the uS.

https://worldradio.ch/article/swiss-...r-9-june-2020/
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  #489  
Old 09.06.2020, 19:22
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

Let's be frank, equality is never going to happen. Equality will only occur if all kids have the same start in life, that gives them the same chance at education and the same chance at gaining whatever job as every other person. That is not possible.

Regardless of race, kids born into families with money and educated parents are always going to have a better start in life than poor kids.

Even if you can make sure that all poor kids get the same educational opportunities as each other, you still can't control the home environment. A kid growing up with racist or homophobic or criminal (for example) parents is likely to be influenced by them. A kid with support and encouragement from a parent will have a better start than one with none.

.....

And then there is the question of whether minorities actually truly want equality.

Equality means no "minority quotas" for jobs or university. The best candidate gets selected. Male, female, black, white, gay or straight.

Equality means no gay bars. No ladies only sports classes. No african-american student clubs. No male only golf clubs. Any situation limited to one group of people is discrimination against another. Equality is just bars, sports classes and clubs that ANYONE can go to.

So do we/minorites want diversity or true equality?
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  #490  
Old 09.06.2020, 19:54
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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.....

And then there is the question of whether minorities actually truly want equality.

Equality means no "minority quotas" for jobs or university. The best candidate gets selected. Male, female, black, white, gay or straight.

Equality means no gay bars. No ladies only sports classes. No african-american student clubs. No male only golf clubs. Any situation limited to one group of people is discrimination against another. Equality is just bars, sports classes and clubs that ANYONE can go to.

So do we/minorites want diversity or true equality?
I'm not going to read this whole thread .. But this last bit made me think..

America had a black president for 8 years.. Many of the communities we see protesting and rioting have a black mayor, a black police chief, district attorney, community leaders..
People are screaming for change but where? There's indeed still no equality whilst POC are being given opportunities for the sake of it, forced diversity?

We need actual equality from all sides but it's a million miles away.. How many different organisations are now in these protests .. Is that really hurting the actual cause? Bandwagon? Fashionable to join in?
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  #491  
Old 09.06.2020, 20:13
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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Let's be frank, equality is never going to happen. Equality will only occur if all kids have the same start in life, that gives them the same chance at education and the same chance at gaining whatever job as every other person. That is not possible.

Regardless of race, kids born into families with money and educated parents are always going to have a better start in life than poor kids.

Even if you can make sure that all poor kids get the same educational opportunities as each other, you still can't control the home environment. A kid growing up with racist or homophobic or criminal (for example) parents is likely to be influenced by them. A kid with support and encouragement from a parent will have a better start than one with none.

.....

And then there is the question of whether minorities actually truly want equality.

Equality means no "minority quotas" for jobs or university. The best candidate gets selected. Male, female, black, white, gay or straight.

Equality means no gay bars. No ladies only sports classes. No african-american student clubs. No male only golf clubs. Any situation limited to one group of people is discrimination against another. Equality is just bars, sports classes and clubs that ANYONE can go to.

So do we/minorites want diversity or true equality?
Well diversity is a part of life. And equality belongs to our intrinsic nature.
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  #492  
Old 09.06.2020, 20:16
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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Well diversity is a part of life. And equality belongs to our intrinsic nature.

Mods!!!!! an intelligent and sensible person hacked omtatsat EF account
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  #493  
Old 09.06.2020, 20:17
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

Equality as in equality before the law, yes.

Taking joy in our diversity, yes

Positive discrimination measures are a racist solution to a racism problem. In an ideal world they would become unnecessary and counter productive. Unfortunately they are still required.
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  #494  
Old 09.06.2020, 20:19
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

And as Osho saw it


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  #495  
Old 09.06.2020, 22:55
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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"The police needs reform" is such an abstract notion that can not and will not solve this issue.
The issue I have is with overpowering armed forces when they feel like they have to compensate for the dysfunctional legal/judicial system.

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A child needs two things to succeed, a good family and a good school.
Yes. But there are kids who succeed without a good family and/or good school. Another thing is that a child doesn't need wealth to be happy. A French psychiatrist I really like has studied it last few decades and figured out how abundance doesn't give direction.

But society benefits when all members feel part of it. I think it is not the case in the US.

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I disgaree.
I think it is a bit of a mirroring process: a leader feeds a bit into expectations and masses need to identify to some extent.

Are we supposed to buy that somebody else is responsible for people's violence? No. But stealing that cheesecake I am sure was Trump's fault.

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Mods!!!!! an intelligent and sensible person hacked omtatsat EF account
Really? Because he said we are by nature egalitarian? Do you really believe we are?
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Old 09.06.2020, 23:54
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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Mods!!!!! an intelligent and sensible person hacked omtatsat EF account
Even a stopped clock...
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  #497  
Old 10.06.2020, 06:07
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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Really? Because he said we are by nature egalitarian? Do you really believe we are?
Egalitarianism is an historic idea relating to the nobility which one can replace by todays elites based on money and power. Yes, I do not belong to the elite and I think I am egalitarian largely by nature. However even some of the elite are egalitarian in believing we should make attempts to provide equality of opportunity

Humans are by nature a mixture of competition and cooperation. The evidence is all around you. It is up to society how to channel our instincts.

On Human Nature E.O. Wilson 1978 !!!/ Updated 2004


It is worth reading the original, not right-wing interpretations which distort his arguments horribly to promote their agenda.
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  #498  
Old 10.06.2020, 07:20
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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Humans are by nature a mixture of competition and cooperation. The evidence is all around you. It is up to society how to channel our instincts.
Of course. I did not say we shouldn't be egalitarian nor did I say that we think we aren't egalitarian. Try ask an ethologist how egalitarian other species are. If species were egalitarian, they would not need leaders. What is happening in the US now is also being very organized and lead. Unfortunately the definitions of equal rights that the leaders grant others seem to change with every leader.

Last edited by MusicChick; 10.06.2020 at 08:17. Reason: eta - ethology
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Old 10.06.2020, 08:52
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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You should make it a "Sticky".

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  #500  
Old 10.06.2020, 09:12
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

So depressing to see this madness to have reached such a level that Europeans are now aping ISIS in Palmyra, tearing down statues and damaging historical monuments
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