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  #561  
Old 10.06.2020, 15:56
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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I suppose it might be useful to know if there was any incendiary or explosive materials that could go off if treated poorly.

Yours is a pretty poor analogy, but i suspect you knew that.
I sort of liked my analogy so I'll double down!

By the time everyone has figured out who's built it and what's in it, you'll be able to sift through the embers confident in your decision to not take action.

Note: I want to see change in the USA, I just don't see how dragging painful history to the forefront helps change things.
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  #562  
Old 10.06.2020, 16:00
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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I sort of liked my analogy so I'll double down!

By the time everyone has figured out who's built it and what's in it, you'll be able to sift through the embers confident in your decision to not take action.

Note: I want to see change in the USA, I just don't see how dragging painful history to the forefront helps change things.
This fire has been smouldering for hundreds of years. Just because something went bang now doesn't eradicate all the burning before it.
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  #563  
Old 10.06.2020, 16:01
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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I mention that she protested against the problems of her time. Maybe if people spent more time trying to solve the problems of today instead of attempting to proportion blame for what happened in the past progress could be made.
Rosa Parks made an intelligent protest that raised awareness of an injustice, and in some way, contributed to its solution.

She didn't threaten anybody or trash the bus or loot stuff, and neither did anybody else.

It was a powerful symbol.
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  #564  
Old 10.06.2020, 16:06
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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Rosa Parks made an intelligent protest that raised awareness of an injustice, and in some way, contributed to its solution.

She didn't threaten anybody or trash the bus or loot stuff, and neither did anybody else.

It was a powerful symbol.
Funny, when Colin Kaepernick took a knee during the national anthem, he was told his protest was an affront. When basketball players wore a t-shirt with "I can't breathe" they were told it was an affront. When preachers tell their congregations of what is going on, they are told it isn't appropriate.

Pray tell how are black people meant to protest in an appropriate way and do you wonder why things get heated given the dismissals of their other methods of protesting?
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  #565  
Old 10.06.2020, 16:18
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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Funny, when Colin Kaepernick took a knee during the national anthem, he was told his protest was an affront. When basketball players wore a t-shirt with "I can't breathe" they were told it was an affront
Isn't a protest supposed to be an affront?
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  #566  
Old 10.06.2020, 16:32
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

Weak attempt at semantics.

Engage with the issue and the question at hand. Black people aren't meant to protest in the ways mentioned above, so what should they do?
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  #567  
Old 10.06.2020, 16:38
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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When you need to put out a fire, do you ask who built the house?
Yes, you absolutely need to find out how it's constructed and what it's made of. And of course once you've watered it down you'll need to work out if it's properly extinguished, what caused it and how to prevent other houses with the same background from self-igniting as well.

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Yours is a pretty poor analogy, but i suspect you knew that.
Oh no, I think it's great for showing why the history needs to be studied and issues addressed before one can be sure that similar events won't continue to occur.
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Old 10.06.2020, 16:52
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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Yes, you absolutely need to find out how it's constructed and what it's made of. And of course once you've watered it down you'll need to work out if it's properly extinguished, what caused it and how to prevent other houses with the same background from self-igniting as well.



Oh no, I think it's great for showing why the history needs to be studied and issues addressed before one can be sure that similar events won't continue to occur.
How do we address the issues though.. What's the message to me, mr average, non racist white guy? What can I do?

I don't actually follow what is the message of the protest any more, all police are bad, abolish the police system? Who decides what statues to knock down and which TV shows we can't watch?

How do you explain all this to your kids?
There's more to it than a white cop killed a black guy.. Kids ask questions..
Why did the police stop him?
Why did he not just get in the police car?
Why was he fighting the police?
Did he do bad stuff before?
Why didn't the police let him stand up?
Why are the other police just standing there?
Why are all the famous people at the funeral, was he famous too?
Long list..
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  #569  
Old 10.06.2020, 16:53
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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Equality means that we should be able to poke fun, call names, dress up as, laugh at everybody equally .. even in bad taste.
Yup.

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Old 10.06.2020, 17:52
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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Equality means no gay bars. No ladies only sports classes. No african-american student clubs. No male only golf clubs.
And no EF?

(kidding)

I think we entered the "freedom of association" territory here. If we're equal, we all have this right.





But of course. Ironically, it was also the movie for which Hattie McDaniel was the first black artist to receive an Oscar (for best supporting actress).
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  #571  
Old 10.06.2020, 18:22
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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...Note: I want to see change in the USA, I just don't see how dragging painful history to the forefront helps change things.
I think society must face the ugly parts of history head-on, or it won't ever learn to move past them. Symbolism is important to humans. That's why we have castles and pyramids and statues.

For me, a structure such as a castle or the pyramids is more of an educational opportunity and less of a veneration, because it's not made in the likeness of any one person. Statues are crafted to venerate a specific person, making (usually him) look regal, powerful, important, etc. I don't think it's unreasonable to move certain statues to a museum for educational purposes.
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  #572  
Old 10.06.2020, 18:52
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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Statues venerate people. Taking down a statue doesn't erase history - you can't erase history - it merely acknowledges that the recipient of the statue is not worthy of veneration.

Realistically, I think this probably means most if not all statues to people on public land should be removed - very few people lead blameless lives.
No single person leads a blameless life. If that's the bar you're setting it's not only impossible to reach but uninteresting.

That's why I love the Bible. It teaches us that human beings are not perfect, not even the greatest among us. That doesn't mean they did not do great things worthy of veneration.

Sadly nuance is disappearing as people seek 'purity' and 'perfection', two states human beings will never achieve. An example: I for one am happy to venerate Thomas Jefferson for his remarkable achievements, not least his contributions to the formation of American democracy, while still criticising his slave ownership.

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I don't think it's unreasonable to move certain statues to a museum for educational purposes.
I don't inherently disagree with this but imo it should come after public debate and discourse, and shouldn't be reactionary and destructive. Take my example above. I would be livid if anything were to happen to the Jefferson Memorial, one of my absolute favorite places in Washington, DC.
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  #573  
Old 10.06.2020, 19:02
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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Weak attempt at semantics.
It's not semantics.

Don't expact a precise answer to an imprecise question.

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Engage with the issue and the question at hand. Black people aren't meant to protest in the ways mentioned above, so what should they do?
Who says they are not meant to protest in any particular way? Is there a secret manual of intended and unintended modes of protests I'm not aware of?

I've said this before. If you protest you may have to deal with counter-protest, criticism, ridicule even. Some of it may be stupid or misguided. If you are not prepared to deal with it, you shouldn't be protesting. You can't send tough messages while at the same time expecting to be treated with silk gloves. This is where Käpernick went wrong.
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  #574  
Old 10.06.2020, 19:27
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

This is taking on a whole different level of stupid. Here are some snipplets. . . absolutely cringeworthy at best.

A UCLA lecturer was placed on leave after students criticized his response to a request to postpone a final exam because of protests over the death of George Floyd.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...tpone-n1228916


Police officers in North Carolina washed the feet of black religious leaders during a prayer walk that was aimed at ending racism.
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-sta...north-carolina

What on earth is going on, have they all lost their minds?
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  #575  
Old 10.06.2020, 19:33
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

Yes, it's modern day America for you.
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  #576  
Old 10.06.2020, 19:42
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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What on earth is going on, have they all lost their minds?
I am reassuring myself that all good and normal people are watching on in horror, the silent majority that we hear so much about. There will be some backlash, I'm of no doubt. The first being Donald Trump being reelected in November, just imagine what the slogan "Defund the police" will do for him!
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Old 10.06.2020, 19:53
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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This is taking on a whole different level of stupid. Here are some snipplets. . . absolutely cringeworthy at best.

A UCLA lecturer was placed on leave after students criticized his response to a request to postpone a final exam because of protests over the death of George Floyd.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...tpone-n1228916

Police officers in North Carolina washed the feet of black religious leaders during a prayer walk that was aimed at ending racism.
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-sta...north-carolina

What on earth is going on, have they all lost their minds?
1. Ugh, don't get me started on snowflake uni kids these days. Up until recently, uni was a place you went to expand your mind and your horizons and learn the world wasn't what you thought it was. Now we need safe spaces and can't talk about difficult but important topics.

2. This is a reference to the Bible, an act of humility. Jesus washed the feet of his disciples, and said "Very truly I tell you, no servant is greater than his master, nor is a messenger greater than the one who sent him." See John 13:1-17
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  #578  
Old 10.06.2020, 20:05
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

In all honesty, sometimes I think there is a very fine line between American culture and mental illness. And being tired of having to deal with crazy, irrational and unstable people is one of the reasons I was happy to move out of the US. What I see happening there is a lot of people with a warped sense of entitlement who are quick to point the finger at anyone they can but never really stop to "look in the mirror," so to speak. People who think it is their right to act like an a**hole but believe that no one else can. People who think that being aggressive and violent is just normal behavior and even something to be glorified.

The looting there absolutely disgusts me, but so does the behavior of some of these cops who are clearly unable to control their own behavior. I feel so sorry for the people who are peacefully protesting and who are in it for the right reasons (and keep in mind that most of what the media is showing us are the violent protests -- not all the peaceful protesting that has been going on).

Slavery may have ended over 150 years ago in the US, but racism and discrimination certainly have not. Disgustingly, both of my (white) parents are racist, as were their parents. And if people are ever going to finally get racism behind them and in the past, then that's going to take some work from people on all sides of the equation. If you want to be respected, act respectably and respectfully. If you want freedom, don't abuse it. Be responsible for your own actions and your own behavior.

I don't care if you're white, black or purple... Your skin color and/or socioeconomic status doesn't give you the right to be an a**hole. Pointing the finger isn't going to solve anything if everyone continues to refuse to look inward.
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Old 10.06.2020, 21:50
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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I am reassuring myself that all good and normal people are watching on in horror, the silent majority that we hear so much about. There will be some backlash, I'm of no doubt. The first being Donald Trump being reelected in November, just imagine what the slogan "Defund the police" will do for him!
Let's wait and see. So far he's lost ground in the polls since the riots began. But in the weeks and months to come that could well reverse as the Dems need to decide which of the protester's goals they want to unite behind and which they want to oppose, which will probably set them up fighting one another.
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  #580  
Old 10.06.2020, 22:21
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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1. Ugh, don't get me started on snowflake uni kids these days.
Back in college, one of my good friends was the most hated black radical on campus, as he was always pushing the limits and then some.

But a really great guy!

I hung out with odd people, to say the least.

Tom
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