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  #721  
Old 14.06.2020, 14:24
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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Yeah, I can see why omtatsat made that remark. It probably looks like intellectual BS to many. IMHO, without debate there's no real progress. I don't think they approached that particular theme you are interested in though.

I have a feeling those 4 activist women* had never have to deal with police the way those they try to protect are....classic.

* and despite of what they all may think, each and every single one is highly privileged.
I have no idea who these four women are and what their individual experience has been. I do know that a lot of people in activist circles have higher qualifications or come from privileged backgrounds. So what? It does not necessarily mean they live in a bubble separate from the "real" world.

I have never understood why "intellectual" is a negative term. Nerd maybe, but not if you want to develop high tech products.
Just because you have a higher qualification/are an academic does not in itself mean that your opinion is any better or worse than anyone elses. If you think this, it is no different than writing off all Porsche owners as arrogant b.......s
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  #722  
Old 14.06.2020, 14:32
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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I have no idea who these four women are and what their individual experience has been. I do know that a lot of people in activist circles have higher qualifications or come from privileged backgrounds. So what? It does not necessarily mean they live in a bubble separate from the "real" world.

I have never understood why "intellectual" is a negative term. Nerd maybe, but not if you want to develop high tech products.
Just because you have a higher qualification/are an academic does not in itself mean that your opinion is any better or worse than anyone elses. If you think this, it is no different than writing off all Porsche owners as arrogant b.......s
I think you meant to address this post to omtatsat or doropfiz.....

You quoted me, but probably meant to quote someone else or haven't read my posts very carefully. I found the article you mentioned here relatively interesting. Far away from intellectual actually, just some common sense debate between four different activists.

And yes, I agree many of them come from a privileged background, which sometimes can make their points of view seem a tad unrealistic. Hence doropfiz's and omtatsat's rather harsh remarks.

I'll quote doropfiz, just so you can follow better our dialogue

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Thanks, greenmount, for your extra explantions. I wrote because it seemed to me to be a teaching website.



The part I do understand, of Georgette, is that 1) and 2) are "mistakes" and therefore to be avoided, at least by "white activists" (whether self-named, or so described by others).

I think I just genuinely didn't (and perhaps still don't) know what "having a franchise on comfort" (or thinking that one has such a franchise?) means, nor "setting an agenda with the illusion of inclusion". Although I re-read parts of it, especially those you quote, I don't know how one (who?) would, by ommission or commision, be making those mistakes, what they would entail, nor how one would, likewise, avoid so doing.

Maybe that's why I feel like Omtatsat, on this, not because I agree or don't agree with Georgette, but because I really don't know what she is saying.


On another visit to online, when I get back here from Real Life, I might have another look.

Particularly, I wonder if there is something in that discussion which could prevent yet more deaths, or might have helped to kept Rayshard Brooks alive.

Last edited by greenmount; 14.06.2020 at 14:42.
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  #723  
Old 14.06.2020, 14:44
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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I have no idea who these four women are and what their individual experience has been. I do know that a lot of people in activist circles have higher qualifications or come from privileged backgrounds. So what? It does not necessarily mean they live in a bubble separate from the "real" world.
It seems that a privilege is a matter of definition, as much as gender identity, these days. So...unlesss people pause for min to establish how much privilege is ok - the riots will keep going.

Just my 2c.

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I have never understood why "intellectual" is a negative term.
Unlike the commie statues, marxist-leninist books are still around. Or Bourdieu - they will tell you what peeves them about these "intellectuals". Confiscate and redistribute, even intellectual potential. Nothing should be private or original. Or accountable for.
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  #724  
Old 14.06.2020, 15:27
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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I have never understood why "intellectual" is a negative term. Nerd maybe, but not if you want to develop high tech products.
s
Neither of them has a negative connotation in my book. I do understand why "intellectual" could be a negative term for some people. Hope I'm crystal clear now.
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  #725  
Old 14.06.2020, 15:38
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

Really wonder what affect the lockdown had on the people. Could all these demonstrations be the backlash-pent up energy and pent up emotions.And people want to be together again. Stinky finger to all this social distancing neurosis
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  #726  
Old 14.06.2020, 16:02
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

Hypothetical-imagine in 200 years they put up a statue to Hitler
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  #727  
Old 14.06.2020, 16:23
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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Lets look at it this way. If there were 12% Afro Americans in CH like in USA then the discrination would be exactly the same if not worse than USA
How do you know that you are not being discriminated against??? My Swiss in-laws arrived very late one evening at a hotel in Ticino. They were told the hotel had only one small room left... when registering the manager say their Swiss ID cards: Oh your not Germans, well we have this other nice double room........
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Old 14.06.2020, 22:00
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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It seems that a privilege is a matter of definition, as much as gender identity, these days. So...unlesss people pause for min to establish how much privilege is ok - the riots will keep going.
How would you define privilege then? I think most people believe one is (relatively) privileged when coming from the middle classes, or has a good education and is relatively wealthy or all three of the aforementioned qualities/descriptors. I don't believe it's such a "fluid" concept.

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Unlike the commie statues, marxist-leninist books are still around. Or Bourdieu - they will tell you what peeves them about these "intellectuals". Confiscate and redistribute, even intellectual potential. Nothing should be private or original. Or accountable for.
In fact, the article kiwisteve mentioned here tackled exact this theme. They (the "intelectualls" in the article) seem to agree with you if you ask me.

Last edited by greenmount; 14.06.2020 at 22:11.
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  #729  
Old 15.06.2020, 10:58
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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In fact, the article kiwisteve mentioned here tackled exact this theme. They (the "intelectualls" in the article) seem to agree with you if you ask me.
I did not write my opinion, if you reread. I answered the question the poster asked, "what is wrong with intellectuals" - with the answer of marxist-leninists, or Bourdieu. Both schools of thought are popular.

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Unlike the commie statues, marxist-leninist books are still around. Or Bourdieu - they will tell you what peeves them about these "intellectuals". Confiscate and redistribute, even intellectual potential. Nothing should be private or original. Or accountable for.
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  #730  
Old 15.06.2020, 15:21
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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Officer has been sacked. Seems even the police agree he did the wrong thing.
Has now been ruled homicide.
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  #731  
Old 15.06.2020, 15:54
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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Has now been ruled homicide.
Why? The guy was armed!

Tom
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  #732  
Old 15.06.2020, 16:06
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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Why? The guy was armed!
And there you go, neatly summing up a large part of what's wrong in America.

More civilised parts of the world have long embraced the principal that violence is never justified, although most accept that it may sometimes be unavoidable.

To suggest that just because the guy was armed the cop was entitled to shoot him dead is ridiculous, especially given your support for the right to bear arms.

Or is it only white people that are allowed to carry guns without running the risk of being gunned down in the street?
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Old 15.06.2020, 16:18
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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And there you go, neatly summing up a large part of what's wrong in America.

More civilised parts of the world have long embraced the principal that violence is never justified, although most accept that it may sometimes be unavoidable.

To suggest that just because the guy was armed the cop was entitled to shoot him dead is ridiculous, especially given your support for the right to bear arms.

Or is it only white people that are allowed to carry guns without running the risk of being gunned down in the street?
The right to bear arms is quite different from stealing a police officer's taser and firing it at him.
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  #734  
Old 15.06.2020, 16:21
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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More civilised parts of the world have long embraced the principal that violence is never justified, although most accept that it may sometimes be unavoidable.
How can we find the unavoidable to be unjustified? Even the legal system will when following the law not convict you if you did the unavoidable.
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  #735  
Old 15.06.2020, 16:49
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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Why? The guy was armed!

Tom
...with a non-lethal weapon.
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  #736  
Old 15.06.2020, 16:51
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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...with a non-lethal weapon.
Which he can use to taze the cop and then take his lethal weapon.

Tom
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Old 15.06.2020, 16:54
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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To suggest that just because the guy was armed the cop was entitled to shoot him dead is ridiculous, especially given your support for the right to bear arms.

Or is it only white people that are allowed to carry guns without running the risk of being gunned down in the street?
What does that have to do with this situation?

Guy resists arrest, steals cops weapon, and uses it against said cop.

Quite different situation than legally carrying a weapon!

Tom

P.S. Didn't even know that the guy wasn't white, not that it matters in this case.
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  #738  
Old 15.06.2020, 17:08
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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Which he can use to taze the cop and then take his lethal weapon.

Tom
..while the cop''s partner just stands and watches?
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  #739  
Old 15.06.2020, 17:58
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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P.S. Didn't even know that the guy wasn't white, not that it matters in this case.
Uh huh. Sure you didn't and sure it doesn't.
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  #740  
Old 15.06.2020, 18:45
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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What does that have to do with this situation?
Only that you're completely missing the point. The cop decided to avoid any further conflict by killing the guy. You seem to think it's OK.

It's the fact that you, and presumably many other Americans, think that lethal violence can be acceptable, that exemplifies the problem, and indeed the old 3rd amendment (or is it the second) makes it more or less built-in to the constitution.

A society that glorifies guns and makes heroes out of killers, real and fictional, will never be a peaceful society.
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