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  #1121  
Old 23.04.2021, 12:30
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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I think it's the other meaning of sentence: words put together with a subject, verb and predicate. Maybe...
I was referring to "guilty on all three counts". He can appeal it, of course. How should I call it in English - resolution? Why so sarcastic?
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  #1122  
Old 23.04.2021, 12:32
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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No, "guilty on all counts". He can appeal it, of course. Why so sarcastic?
Overthinking...I'm guilty!
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  #1123  
Old 23.04.2021, 12:40
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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How should I call it in English - resolution?
The verdict(s).

Tom
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  #1124  
Old 23.04.2021, 12:44
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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The verdict(s).

Tom
Haha, you're right. Quite a banal word. I forget. But thanks anyway. It is a matter of time till he'll get his sentence - have read somewhere it's a couple or a few weeks only.
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  #1125  
Old 23.04.2021, 12:45
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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Haha, you're right. Quite a banal word. I forget. But thanks anyway. It is a matter of time till he'll get his sentence - have read somewhere it's a couple or a few weeks only.
8 weeks, actually.

It will probably be 15 years.

Tom
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  #1126  
Old 23.04.2021, 12:50
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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It will probably be 15 years.

Tom
Probably.
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  #1127  
Old 23.04.2021, 12:52
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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8 weeks, actually.

It will probably be 15 years.

Tom
Which he is likely going to spend in solitary unless he is keen to play hoops with the homies.

I didn't follow the trial, so have no views how clear a murder case this was. What I know is that the guy belongs in prison. Not entirely intuitive how one can get two murder counts though plus manslaughter for killing one person.

And Maxine Waters is a disgraceful witch.
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  #1128  
Old 23.04.2021, 12:55
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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Overthinking...I'm guilty!
Or nit-picking. No worries, you'll not be sentenced.

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And Maxine Waters is a disgraceful witch.
I had to google who Maxine Waters is. Thanks for sharing your opinion.

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Which he is likely going to spend in solitary unless he is keen to play hoops with the homies.

I didn't follow the trial, so have no views how clear a murder case this was. What I know is that the guy belongs in prison. Not entirely intuitive how one can get two murder counts though plus manslaughter for killing one person.
.
I think one must lack the willingness to live in order to follow this guy's trial!...no matter how fascinating the American system with jurors and everything is. And yes, I agree he belongs to prison.
Note to myself: careful at false friends. Next time I'll use "process" instead of "trial" and I'll probably get banned.. lol

Last edited by greenmount; 23.04.2021 at 14:10.
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  #1129  
Old 23.04.2021, 15:43
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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I didn't follow the trial, so have no views how clear a murder case this was. What I know is that the guy belongs in prison.
On what grounds?

The first time Floyd said "I can't breathe" he was sitting upright on the backseat of the police car. The police bodycam footage leaked last year by one of the British tabloids shows this unmistakeably. No knee on the shoulder but he probably had the lethal dosis of Fentanyl in the blood already.
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  #1130  
Old 23.04.2021, 16:00
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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On what grounds?

The first time Floyd said "I can't breathe" he was sitting upright on the backseat of the police car. The police bodycam footage leaked last year by one of the British tabloids shows this unmistakeably. No knee on the shoulder but he probably had the lethal dosis of Fentanyl in the blood already.
A cop kneeling on a person's neck with breathing difficulty and posing zero threat for 8 minutes until this person is dead belongs in prison. And I don't have to sympathize with Mr Floyd to know this.

Whether it was murder, manslaughter, failure to assist a person in danger etc. is another matter. But I believe that is what the trial was for, right?
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  #1131  
Old 23.04.2021, 16:04
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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On what grounds?

The first time Floyd said "I can't breathe" he was sitting upright on the backseat of the police car. The police bodycam footage leaked last year by one of the British tabloids shows this unmistakeably. No knee on the shoulder but he probably had the lethal dosis of Fentanyl in the blood already.
I can understand how the jury could come to a guilty verdict for the manslaughter charge, maybe even murder in the third degree, but the second degree murder verdict together with the comments from Maxine Waters and the President prior to the outcome being known firmly puts this trial in same category as the OJ Simpson circus!
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  #1132  
Old 23.04.2021, 17:12
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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I can understand how the jury could come to a guilty verdict for the manslaughter charge, maybe even murder in the third degree, but the second degree murder verdict together with the comments from Maxine Waters and the President prior to the outcome being known firmly puts this trial in same category as the OJ Simpson circus!
Not a good comparison as O.J.Simpson was found not guilty.
According to Fox News "OJ Simpson says Derek Chauvin 'deserves' to be convicted for George Floyd's death".
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  #1133  
Old 23.04.2021, 17:44
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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A cop kneeling on a person's neck with breathing difficulty and posing zero threat for 8 minutes until this person is dead belongs in prison. And I don't have to sympathize with Mr Floyd to know this.
The police had been instructed to do exactly that. It was only a few weeks after Floyd's death that this position, along with all forms of chokehold, got officially banned.

Since he had said his "I can't breathe" even before resisting, how much credibility would you ascribe to that later on?
Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.
And that doesn't even take into account that some people will do anything to avoid arrest.

You need causation for the first two charges (third degree murder and second degree unintentional murder). Not just plausibility or even possibility but "causation beyond a reasonable doubt". With the lethal dose of fentanyl (plus IIRC some other drug) in Floyd's blood, and the partially dissolved drug pill with Floyd's DNA on it that was found in the police car back footroom, that seems impossible to meet. And there is of course his weak heart on top of it all.

Given the situation in general, in particular the peaceful(® marton) riots last year that cost 30+ lives despite their "peacefulness", I can see how a guilty of "second degree manslaughter" is necessary to at least somewhat please the bloodthirsty mob. Perhaps that would even be the just outcome. But a necessity to appease the mob would mean that a fair trial is impossible. Which could mean that Chauvin can't be tried at all.

The alternative to what happened would have been to taser Floyd, apparently lawful after his resistance, but given his weak heart that might well
have been lethal as well - cue the riots.
For whatever reason they decided to wait for the ambulance instead - cue the riots.
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  #1134  
Old 23.04.2021, 17:47
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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A cop kneeling on a person's neck with breathing difficulty and posing zero threat for 8 minutes until this person is dead belongs in prison. And I don't have to sympathize with Mr Floyd to know this.

Whether it was murder, manslaughter, failure to assist a person in danger etc. is another matter. But I believe that is what the trial was for, right?
Exactly this. You don't need to sympathise with Mr. Floyd or to be Afro-American/woke or whatever.
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  #1135  
Old 23.04.2021, 20:46
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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The police had been instructed to do exactly that. It was only a few weeks after Floyd's death that this position, along with all forms of chokehold, got officially banned.

Since he had said his "I can't breathe" even before resisting, how much credibility would you ascribe to that later on?
Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.
And that doesn't even take into account that some people will do anything to avoid arrest.

You need causation for the first two charges (third degree murder and second degree unintentional murder). Not just plausibility or even possibility but "causation beyond a reasonable doubt". With the lethal dose of fentanyl (plus IIRC some other drug) in Floyd's blood, and the partially dissolved drug pill with Floyd's DNA on it that was found in the police car back footroom, that seems impossible to meet. And there is of course his weak heart on top of it all.

Given the situation in general, in particular the peaceful(® marton) riots last year that cost 30+ lives despite their "peacefulness", I can see how a guilty of "second degree manslaughter" is necessary to at least somewhat please the bloodthirsty mob. Perhaps that would even be the just outcome. But a necessity to appease the mob would mean that a fair trial is impossible. Which could mean that Chauvin can't be tried at all.

The alternative to what happened would have been to taser Floyd, apparently lawful after his resistance, but given his weak heart that might well
have been lethal as well - cue the riots.
For whatever reason they decided to wait for the ambulance instead - cue the riots.
I just read up a bit on the case, and I don't see much evidence for what you write. Basically the all MPD witnesses testified that his actions were not in line with policing guidelines. Also there is separate expert testimony that fentanyl concentration was not lethal and he died from a lack of oxygen. So whilebthere may be other testimony on cause of death, at least it is not clear that he died from fentanyl as you seem to know for a fact.

What is really awful, and likely contributed to the 2nd degree murder charge is the fact that he kept kneeling on Floyd for another two full minutes after Floyd showed last signs of life.
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  #1136  
Old 23.04.2021, 21:38
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

Here's a snippet from NYT that talks about the charges:

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1) causing the death of a human being, without intent, while committing or attempting to commit an assault (second-degree murder);

2) unintentionally causing a death by committing an act that is eminently dangerous to other persons while exhibiting a depraved mind, with reckless disregard for human life (third-degree murder);

3) and creating an unreasonable risk, by consciously taking the chance of causing death or great bodily harm to someone else (manslaughter).
And a USA Today article that explains also: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...th/7307746002/
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  #1137  
Old 23.04.2021, 22:27
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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I just read up a bit on the case, and I don't see much evidence for what you write. Basically the all MPD witnesses testified that his actions were not in line with policing guidelines. Also there is separate expert testimony that fentanyl concentration was not lethal and he died from a lack of oxygen. So whilebthere may be other testimony on cause of death, at least it is not clear that he died from fentanyl as you seem to know for a fact.

What is really awful, and likely contributed to the 2nd degree murder charge is the fact that he kept kneeling on Floyd for another two full minutes after Floyd showed last signs of life.
Of course the prosecution will line up witnesses that confirm its story. They wouldn't be their witness otherwise.

A lethal dose doesn't necessarily kill every individual with that blood concentration, nor would that be necessary to invalidate the prosecution's claim. It's not the defense's job to disprove anything, it's the prosecution's job to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, hence it's enough for the defense to raise sufficient uncertainty.

It'll be interesting to see the appeal.
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  #1138  
Old 23.04.2021, 22:31
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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It's not the defense's job to disprove anything, it's the prosecution's job to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, hence it's enough for the defense to raise sufficient uncertainty.
Correct. And according to the jury, the prosecution did prove it.
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Old 23.04.2021, 22:44
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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Correct. And according to the jury, the prosecution did prove it.
We shall se after the appeal, which I expect to succeed.

Tom
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Old 25.04.2021, 17:34
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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We shall se after the appeal, which I expect to succeed.

Tom
What level of success do you expect? I was surprised by the 2nd and 3rd degree murder charges coming back guilty. I expected manslaughter and that's it.
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