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  #1141  
Old 25.04.2021, 18:51
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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What level of success do you expect? I was surprised by the 2nd and 3rd degree murder charges coming back guilty. I expected manslaughter and that's it.
Same, given that 3x "not guilty" is simply unthinkable here.

It will be also interesting to see whether the prosecution offers Floyd's drug dealer (he was the passenger in Floyd's car) immunity for his testimony this time around (assuming that's even possible at a later stage). Such a deal seems to be pretty much standard procedure, and to be expected right off the bat. This alone shows how despicably partisan (or utterly incompetent, or both) the prosecution has acted.

I'm still waiting for the lefties to get all outraged about Biden's interference and disregard of the separation of powers. He showed complete disrespect for the separation of powers, and as such for the constitution itself.
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  #1142  
Old 25.04.2021, 20:22
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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Same, given that 3x "not guilty" is simply unthinkable here.

It will be also interesting to see whether the prosecution offers Floyd's drug dealer (he was the passenger in Floyd's car) immunity for his testimony this time around (assuming that's even possible at a later stage). Such a deal seems to be pretty much standard procedure, and to be expected right off the bat. This alone shows how despicably partisan (or utterly incompetent, or both) the prosecution has acted.

I'm still waiting for the lefties to get all outraged about Biden's interference and disregard of the separation of powers. He showed complete disrespect for the separation of powers, and as such for the constitution itself.
Actually Mr. Biden was quite correct in keeping his view and opinion to himself until after the jury had deliberated and given their verdict to the judge. And until after the judge had issued the final verdict. Of course he, like everyone on the planet has his own views, but he didn’t allow his opinion to influence the court.
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  #1143  
Old 25.04.2021, 20:25
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

At the end of the day, unless you are USian, WHO CARES?

Tom
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  #1144  
Old 25.04.2021, 20:54
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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Actually Mr. Biden was quite correct in keeping his view and opinion to himself until after the jury had deliberated and given their verdict to the judge. And until after the judge had issued the final verdict.
Except that he didn't. Check yer facts.
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  #1145  
Old 25.04.2021, 21:36
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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Of course the prosecution will line up witnesses that confirm its story. They wouldn't be their witness otherwise.
There is a video of his killing for all to see. Witnesses weren’t even needed...
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  #1146  
Old 25.04.2021, 21:45
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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There is a video of his killing for all to see. Witnesses weren’t even needed...
Well, cause of death is somehow relevant to determine in order to decide on a murder charge.
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  #1147  
Old 25.04.2021, 21:48
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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There is a video of his killing for all to see. Witnesses weren’t even needed...
Videos can be interpreted many ways, so no prosecutor worth his or her salt would leave it at just that. They need all 12 jurors to agree. The defense only needs to put reasonable doubt in the mind of 1 juror.
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  #1148  
Old 25.04.2021, 23:22
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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Actually Mr. Biden was quite correct in keeping his view and opinion to himself until after the jury had deliberated and given their verdict to the judge. And until after the judge had issued the final verdict. Of course he, like everyone on the planet has his own views, but he didn’t allow his opinion to influence the court.
Biden has been open about his position essentially from day one. Here he is a couple days after Floyd's death, declaring it a racist murder. What does the racial justice he demanded on the day of Floyd's funeral two weeks after the incident mean if not a refreshing of his previous claim? He repeated that at his inauguration speech for a reason, it's what you have to expect for the next 4-8-10-16 years if the duo gets their way (unlikely but you never know).

The speech you're probably referring to was Biden's last occasion to openly profess his position (I hesitate to call it opinion) without contradicting the facts (i.e. the most recent verdict), and to make it clear what the POTUS demands from his underlings including each and every judge, and that there can be no other verdict than a guilty at the later stages of Chauvin's chain of trials/appeals.

His "systemic racism is a stain on our nation's soul" while the jury was in recess was of course not addressing the jury, he was virtue signaling (yet again) to the black people and the woketivists, perhaps to the deeply religious christians ("I pray") as well.

@Susie-Q
The video shows his death (apparently, confirmed by the authorities so it's fact). Someone's death is a precondition but not proof of murder.
When have you last been fooled by (and hopefully thoroughly enjoyed) an illusionist's tricks? It can be treacherous to trust your eyes.
On top of that there's the movies ....

Last edited by Urs Max; 25.04.2021 at 23:38.
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  #1149  
Old 26.04.2021, 07:56
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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Biden has been open about his position essentially from day one. Here he is a couple days after Floyd's death, declaring it a racist murder. What does the racial justice he demanded on the day of Floyd's funeral two weeks after the incident mean if not a refreshing of his previous claim? He repeated that at his inauguration speech for a reason, it's what you have to expect for the next 4-8-10-16 years if the duo gets their way (unlikely but you never know).

The speech you're probably referring to was Biden's last occasion to openly profess his position (I hesitate to call it opinion) without contradicting the facts (i.e. the most recent verdict), and to make it clear what the POTUS demands from his underlings including each and every judge, and that there can be no other verdict than a guilty at the later stages of Chauvin's chain of trials/appeals.

His "systemic racism is a stain on our nation's soul" while the jury was in recess was of course not addressing the jury, he was virtue signaling (yet again) to the black people and the woketivists, perhaps to the deeply religious christians ("I pray") as well.

@Susie-Q
The video shows his death (apparently, confirmed by the authorities so it's fact). Someone's death is a precondition but not proof of murder.
When have you last been fooled by (and hopefully thoroughly enjoyed) an illusionist's tricks? It can be treacherous to trust your eyes.
On top of that there's the movies ....
I see you take this very seriously.

May I ask, do you consider it normal that 1000 people per year do not survive their encounters with police in the US? For Switzerland, that would mean about 25 per year. 2 per month who get shot at traffic stops etc. For some reason, this does not happen here, and that is a good thing.

Or is this just a problem for them blackies and good people don't have to worry?
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  #1150  
Old 26.04.2021, 08:41
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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I see you take this very seriously.
Everybody needs a hobby..
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  #1151  
Old 26.04.2021, 09:41
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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Videos can be interpreted many ways, so no prosecutor worth his or her salt would leave it at just that. They need all 12 jurors to agree. The defense only needs to put reasonable doubt in the mind of 1 juror.
I really do not understand how anyone could have interpreted this video in any other way ... of course a trial needed to be had, but the evidence followed with the coroner report is clear. The defence wasn't able to put doubt into any juror's mind for good reason.

You can argue that BLM & statements made by Biden etc. had an influence on the trial...and that shouldn't have occurred. But they still don't make a guilty man innocent.

I also understand criticism on the whole "woke" movement, but again, they do not make a guilty man innocent.

I honestly see my former country as broken beyond repair. What a mess!

Last edited by Susie-Q; 26.04.2021 at 15:15.
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  #1152  
Old 26.04.2021, 10:23
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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The video shows his death (apparently, confirmed by the authorities so it's fact). Someone's death is a precondition but not proof of murder. When have you last been fooled by (and hopefully thoroughly enjoyed) an illusionist's tricks? It can be treacherous to trust your eyes.
On top of that there's the movies ....
The video does show a dozen people looking at what the police is doing: witnesses. Have fun interpreting the video, but the witnesses' testimony during the trial counts a bit more.
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  #1153  
Old 26.04.2021, 13:01
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

The State of Maryland has ordered a review of the conclusions of all in custody deaths during the time that Dr Fowler (the defense witness) was chief Medical Examiner for that State. His testimony was extremely controversial among other medical examiners as well.
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  #1154  
Old 26.04.2021, 13:57
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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The State of Maryland has ordered a review of the conclusions of all in-custody deaths during the time that Dr Fowler (the defense witness) was chief Medical Examiner for that State. His testimony was extremely controversial among other medical examiners as well.
They are also studying one case closely.
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That case has to do with Fowler's handling of the medical records of Anton Black, a 19-year-old Black man who died in police custody in Maryland in 2018.

Maryland civil rights attorneys have said that video of the incident shows three white police officers and a white civilian chasing, Tasing and pinning Black face down on the ground until he eventually stopped breathing. Fowler ruled Black's death an accident and named his heart condition and bipolar disorder as contributing factors.

Black's family alleges that Fowler and others "covered up and obscured police responsibility for Anton Black's death."
There are also more details of the review in the link above.
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Old 26.04.2021, 15:08
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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I really do not understand how you could have interpreted this video in any other way ... of course a trial needed to be had, but the evidence followed with the coroner report is clear. The defence wasn't able to put doubt into any juror's mind for good reason...
Where did I say I interpreted the video differently? All I said is that a good prosecutor wouldn't simply say "here's the video, job done".

Witnesses are key to helping each side present its story in a convincing manner. The prosecution in this case is lucky there's a video. Otherwise it would have been very easy to declare it as a simple case of a guy who ODd.

With the video, it's plain to see that Floyd had long since stopped resisting, Chauvin still knelt on him, bystanders begged to check for a pulse and call for help, etc. Yet Chauvin was indifferent the whole time, even after Floyd was taken away unresponsive. He truly didn't care whether Floyd survived or not. That's not a good cop.
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  #1156  
Old 26.04.2021, 15:14
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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Where did I say I interpreted the video differently? All I said is that a good prosecutor wouldn't simply say "here's the video, job done"
Apologies for my emphasis on "you", I meant it for the general audience of deniers of what actually happened - "you" was not directed at you personally.

Edit: I changed it to "anyone" - slow Monday for me.
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  #1157  
Old 26.04.2021, 18:55
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

I’ve followed this story for awhile and more video released today makes it even more horrid ... there is a serious issue with police brutality, unaccountability and poor training in my country - & that applies to all races.

https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreak...tm_name=iossmf

These policemen and women should have their badges immediately taken away & the department still denies it even happened. FFS - getting pumped about tackling a tiny old lady with dementia.
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  #1158  
Old 27.04.2021, 08:28
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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I see you take this very seriously.

May I ask, do you consider it normal that 1000 people per year do not survive their encounters with police in the US? For Switzerland, that would mean about 25 per year. 2 per month who get shot at traffic stops etc. For some reason, this does not happen here, and that is a good thing.

Or is this just a problem for them blackies and good people don't have to worry?
One could just as easily ask is it normal for around 50 police officers to be shot in the line of duty each year when in Switzerland it's zero. For some reason that doesn't happen here either. This is also a good thing.

Ultimately, such comparisons are unhelpful, as the problem is that the US has levels of violent crime, regardless of race, that are just unimaginable in Switzerland.
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  #1159  
Old 27.04.2021, 16:51
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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The video does show a dozen people looking at what the police is doing: witnesses. Have fun interpreting the video, but the witnesses' testimony during the trial counts a bit more.
They've seen Floyd die. That's not really the question though, the question is what caused his death.
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I see you take this very seriously.

May I ask, do you consider it normal that 1000 people per year do not survive their encounters with police in the US? For Switzerland, that would mean about 25 per year. 2 per month who get shot at traffic stops etc. For some reason, this does not happen here, and that is a good thing.

Or is this just a problem for them blackies and good people don't have to worry?
What do you base your insinuation of racist motives on my side on? Do you have have anything more than the obvious fact that I dare to not fall in line with the woke orthodoxy?

Please don't tell me your thinking is similarly simplicistic as the simpletons who claim that Floyd's death can't be caused by anything other than Chauvin's racist motives, simply because this was a white cop vs a black suspect, and nothing else is thinkable in such a situation. A line of thinking that's racist in itself by the way.

As for the question itself:
laws, regulations, instructions, schooling and training are entirely different here than there. For instance, try to find a few official demands (legal, regulatory, etc) that have police in the US protect the citizenry. Just as an example, the states I've checked (CA, TX, NY, plus a few) leave the population out of police oath, they only swear to protect the constitution and uphold the law. Bonus points if you find one that prioritises someone's life above arresting a suspect.

However that's not Floyd's fault. You can't blame a law officer for acting out the law and following his instructions. You're obviously mixing up two entirely different categories here. Further, the first question the process is to answer, is, what caused Floyd's death with certainty beyond a reasonable doubt. If the certain answer is anything other than "Chauvin", the first two charges are out the window.

Last edited by Urs Max; 27.04.2021 at 17:10.
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  #1160  
Old 27.04.2021, 17:39
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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They've seen Floyd die. That's not really the question though, the question is what caused his death.
An answer to that question was found on 2020: mechanical asphixiation. Since this a high profile case, all court docs are public: https://www.mncourts.gov/media/State...avDerekChauvin

initial autopsy + 2 independents reviews = exhibits: https://www.mncourts.gov/mncourtsgov...t608282020.pdf

Plus an armed forces medical examiner, another exhibit: https://www.mncourts.gov/mncourtsgov...1908282020.pdf
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