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  #1241  
Old 30.01.2023, 15:33
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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Is there actually a statistic how many people are killed per year by police and the racial composition of this group as compared to racial composition of all charged/convicted (edit: arrests would be best) offenders? Looking from my Swiss armchair, I would think you are more likely to die from police force if you are black, but indeed as crime is much more prevalent among blacks, this might statistically be questionable.

I think this case does highlight the fact that when police brutality occurs, it isn't necessarily always about racism when the victim is black. But it would be interesting to know how common police use of unnecessary force is when the victim is white, compared to when the victim is black.

I'm sure the essence of the problem is multi-faceted, but what I see as being a big part of the problem is cops' tendency to dehumanize criminals. Perhaps they are even trained to dehumanize them.

I watched the Tyre Nichols video a bit ago, which shows him being beaten by the cops. It's hard to see some of it or know what exactly is going on, but at one point he runs away, and I couldn't help but wonder if he ran away because he knew the cops were using unnecessary force, rather than simply trying to not get arrested. I think that when the amaygdala in someone's brain kicks in (which activates the fight or flight response), any normal person would try to flee from a group of five men trying to beat them, regardless of whether or not those men are cops.

"The amygdala activates this fight-or-flight response without any initiative from you. When that part of your brain senses danger, it signals your brain to pump stress hormones, preparing your body to either fight for survival or to flee to safety."
https://www.healthline.com/health/st...mygdala-hijack
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  #1242  
Old 30.01.2023, 15:37
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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While you've got police officers wearing obvious and open cameras about their person, and it STILL doesn't deter them, the violence will persist in this way. It's astounding that they don't appear to think twice about inflicting deadly force when it's obvious it is absolutely not necessary, and it's all caught on THEIR OWN camera.

...and it's really shit the batteries run out at the critical moment or the footage gets contaminated whilst downloading the camera.


Just lucky everybody got a camera today i guess !!
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  #1243  
Old 30.01.2023, 15:38
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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I think this case does highlight the fact that when police brutality occurs, it isn't necessarily always about racism when the victim is black. But it would be interesting to know how common police use of unnecessary force is when the victim is white, compared to when the victim is black.
Exactly. And if - big if - an arrest of a white person would be just as likely to result in death or injury as an arrest of a black person, then you could arguably remove racism from the discussion all together. Again, without data it's just opinion.
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  #1244  
Old 30.01.2023, 15:49
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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I watched the Tyre Nichols video a bit ago, which shows him being beaten by the cops. It's hard to see some of it or know what exactly is going on, but at one point he runs away, and I couldn't help but wonder if he ran away because he knew the cops were using unnecessary force, rather than simply trying to not get arrested. I think that when the amaygdala in someone's brain kicks in (which activates the fight or flight response), any normal person would try to flee from a group of five men trying to beat them, regardless of whether or not those men are cops.
That's exactly why he was running away - they were killing the guy and not giving him any chance to do the right thing or survive.

The NY Times gave a good break down:

71 Commands in 13 Minutes: Officers Gave Tyre Nichols Impossible Orders
A Times analysis found that officers gave dozens of contradictory and unachievable orders to Mr. Nichols. The punishment was severe — and eventually fatal.


https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/29/u...ault-cops.html
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  #1245  
Old 30.01.2023, 15:52
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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Exactly. And if - big if - an arrest of a white person would be just as likely to result in death or injury as an arrest of a black person, then you could arguably remove racism from the discussion all together. Again, without data it's just opinion.
Yeah, but I do think there are probably a LOT of racist white cops in the US. And of course, if someone is white and racist, that makes it all the easier for them to dehumanize someone who is black. All you have to do is read through the comments sections on the Fox News website to be reminded of how common racism against blacks still is in the US.

But when it comes to situations involving the police's use of unnecessary force, I think that every incident needs to be examined and judged independently, rather than relatively. I see soo many people jumping to assumptions now, instinctively throwing the word "racism" around any time a black person is arrested by the cops and the cops use force to detain him. Like the case mentioned eariler here, where someone had posted a video. That incident had nothing to do with him being black but had everything to do with him resisting arrest.
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  #1246  
Old 30.01.2023, 15:56
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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That's exactly why they were running away - they were killing the guy and not giving him any chance to do the right thing or survive.

The NY Times gave a good break down:

71 Commands in 13 Minutes: Officers Gave Tyre Nichols Impossible Orders
A Times analysis found that officers gave dozens of contradictory and unachievable orders to Mr. Nichols. The punishment was severe ó and eventually fatal.


https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/29/u...ault-cops.html
Thanks. Yeah, I could tell from the video that the cops were not being clear as to what exactly they wanted him to do and were also not making it easy for him to do it. (e.g. it's not easy to roll onto your stomach when you're pressed up against a car, with handcuffs on behind your back).

I saw a video of Tyre Nichols' parents asking for only peaceful protests and for no violence, which I really respect them for.
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  #1247  
Old 30.01.2023, 16:26
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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Is there actually a statistic how many people are killed per year by police and the racial composition of this group as compared to racial composition of all charged/convicted (edit: arrests would be best) offenders? Looking from my Swiss armchair, I would think you are more likely to die from police force if you are black, but indeed as crime is much more prevalent among blacks, this might statistically be questionable.
The published number usually are based on the cases where the police have identified the culprit, i.e. where the prosecution thinks they have a case ready for the courts. Only about half of all (presumed to be) murders and other homicides of whichever degree reach that stage.

I've never come across published arrest data, though they must exist. Perhaps only on the state level. Police kills are readily available, grouped by various obvious categories but also whether the victim was armed or not. Maybe start with Wiki.

The most cynical aspect of this all, is that 99% of the victims are ignored simply because they don't fit, or may even contradict, the woke narrative. Only a tiny number of cases get pushed, like Tyre Nichols.

If you have 30mins to waste and are willing to get your heart broken in the process take a look at this. The story is, a gang of teenagers intentionally shot and killed another teenager, shooting six others in the process, including 13yr old gang member Deshon Dubose who was left to die on the sidewalk. The killers couldn't care any less about the victims, all they cared about was their "successful" murder. These are career criminals already, at the age of 15. "Unfortunately" the suspected criminals are non-white teenagers so there's nothing to be gained for the media, therefore it gets ignored.

Deshon's mother says she called the cops on her own son at least 30 times in the last two years, including one week before he was murdered, but they couldn't do anything.

Still there's no need for the population to be concerned because Atlanta's government has invoked a curfew on teenagers, clearly they'll be mightily impressed and obey that to the dot on the "i".
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  #1248  
Old 30.01.2023, 17:20
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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The most cynical aspect of this all, is that 99% of the victims are ignored simply because they don't fit, or may even contradict, the woke narrative. Only a tiny number of cases get pushed, like Tyre Nichols.

If you have 30mins to waste and are willing to get your heart broken in the process take a look at this. The story is, a gang of teenagers intentionally shot and killed another teenager, shooting six others in the process, including 13yr old gang member Deshon Dubose who was left to die on the sidewalk. The killers couldn't care any less about the victims, all they cared about was their "successful" murder. These are career criminals already, at the age of 15. "Unfortunately" the suspected criminals are non-white teenagers so there's nothing to be gained for the media, therefore it gets ignored.
That's gang crime. What does that have to do with people not surviving police arrests?
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  #1249  
Old 30.01.2023, 17:47
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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That's gang crime. What does that have to do with people not surviving police arrests?
It's one of the elephants in the room that keep being ignored.

It's almost three years between George Floyd and Tyre Nichols, that's some 15k murders that get brushed aside while the focus is on a few very rare cases. Simply because the many can't be used for clickbait and the racism narrative.
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  #1250  
Old 31.01.2023, 08:36
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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Just read this earlier today regarding the Memphis case. I have no views on this, just thought I share it.
Read that, no mention that the lack of a racial angle however, which I would say is the biggest reason for the lack of a outcry. Hence why I resurrected this thread.

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I watched the Tyre Nichols video a bit ago, which shows him being beaten by the cops. It's hard to see some of it or know what exactly is going on, but at one point he runs away, and I couldn't help but wonder if he ran away because he knew the cops were using unnecessary force, rather than simply trying to not get arrested.
Time to repost this. In NO WAY should it excuse police brutality and what happened to Tyre Nichols, George Floyd or anyone else harmed in police custody, however if one knows that resisting arrest could have consequences, really best not to do it!



https://www.englishforum.ch/3191436-post766.html
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  #1251  
Old 31.01.2023, 08:39
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

Isn't the correct US spelling of Tyre "Tire"?

Tom
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  #1252  
Old 31.01.2023, 09:03
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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It's one of the elephants in the room that keep being ignored.

It's almost three years between George Floyd and Tyre Nichols, that's some 15k murders that get brushed aside while the focus is on a few very rare cases. Simply because the many can't be used for clickbait and the racism narrative.
No, it's the "elephant in the room" that is used to try to deflect away from the problem of police brutality and that some racist people use to try to defend the police's use of unnecessary force.

The fact that gang-related crime or black-on-black crime exists doesn't somehow negate or invalidate a problem with police using unnecessary force. There are plenty of white people who commit crimes as well, but does that somehow justify a police officer(s) beating a white person to death?

I often see white people trying to blame all black people or blacks in general for crime among blacks. But of course when white people commit crimes, all white people aren't blamed for it. But this is the essence of racism -- perceiving someone of a different skin color as "the other" and then making generalizations and extending the behavior of black person A onto all black people in general and blaming all black people in general for the behavior of some. But black person A should not be responsible or blamed for the actions of black person B. And yet that's what I see a lot of racist people doing -- trying to hold all black people accountable for crime committed by other black people. And somehow in their minds that justifies the police using unnecessary force against a black person.
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  #1253  
Old 31.01.2023, 10:02
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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Isn't the correct US spelling of Tyre "Tire"?

Tom
In this case it seems to be pronounced "Ty-ree". I think more than one UK news reader pronounced it as "Tire" in the last week or so, though.
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Old 31.01.2023, 10:15
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

In my view this incident has little to do with race. Itís about police brutality. Cops seriously overreacting and then doing the macho egging each other on. In the NYT article linked above they report that the officers were fist-bumping towards the end.

Was it really necessary, when he was first pulled over, for a cop to run screaming something and pointing a gun at his head.

Apparently there were seven police officers involved with this. Seven?
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Old 31.01.2023, 11:05
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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In my view this incident has little to do with race. Itís about police brutality. Cops seriously overreacting and then doing the macho egging each other on. In the NYT article linked above they report that the officers were fist-bumping towards the end.

Was it really necessary, when he was first pulled over, for a cop to run screaming something and pointing a gun at his head.

Apparently there were seven police officers involved with this. Seven?
Was it really necessary to pull him over at all?
Most traffic stops are an inherent consequence of systemic racism shown in policies. This incident is just the end result of such.
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  #1256  
Old 31.01.2023, 11:08
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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In this case it seems to be pronounced "Ty-ree". I think more than one UK news reader pronounced it as "Tire" in the last week or so, though.
But Tyre is pronounced as Tire.

Tom
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Old 31.01.2023, 11:37
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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But Tyre is pronounced as Tire.

Tom
Not itís not Tom Ö it is pronounced like - Tie - reee

African Americans have their own special way of spelling and pronouncing their names.
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  #1258  
Old 31.01.2023, 11:56
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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No, it's the "elephant in the room" that is used to try to deflect away from the problem of police brutality and that some racist people use to try to defend the police's use of unnecessary force.
Do you think personal attacks are productive?

Perhaps learn to refrain from personal attacks if you want a rational discussion.
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I often see white people trying to blame all black people or blacks in general for crime among blacks.
You don't know me, nor do you even know my skin color, yet you immediately conclude that I'm white and that this is the only possible reason for my position. At the very best this is stereotypical, realistically though your own smear where you accuse others of racism falls back on you.
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Old 31.01.2023, 12:00
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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Not it’s not Tom … it is pronounced like - Tie - reee

African Americans have their own special way of spelling and pronouncing their names.
As spelled, it is pronounced "Tire".

Having only read the name, and not heard it spoken, that is how I would naturally pronounce it.

How illiterate USians misspell, mispronounce and generally abuse the English language is not my problem.

Tom
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Old 31.01.2023, 12:49
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Re: The racial time bomb-USA

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Do you think personal attacks are productive?

Perhaps learn to refrain from personal attacks if you want a rational discussion.

You don't know me, nor do you even know my skin color, yet you immediately conclude that I'm white and that this is the only possible reason for my position. At the very best this is stereotypical, realistically though your own smear where you accuse others of racism falls back on you.
Where exactly is my personal attack against you in my post below?

The things I mentioned in that post are things you learn if you take a Psychology of Racism class in university.

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No, it's the "elephant in the room" that is used to try to deflect away from the problem of police brutality and that some racist people use to try to defend the police's use of unnecessary force.

The fact that gang-related crime or black-on-black crime exists doesn't somehow negate or invalidate a problem with police using unnecessary force. There are plenty of white people who commit crimes as well, but does that somehow justify a police officer(s) beating a white person to death?

I often see white people trying to blame all black people or blacks in general for crime among blacks. But of course when white people commit crimes, all white people aren't blamed for it. But this is the essence of racism -- perceiving someone of a different skin color as "the other" and then making generalizations and extending the behavior of black person A onto all black people in general and blaming all black people in general for the behavior of some. But black person A should not be responsible or blamed for the actions of black person B. And yet that's what I see a lot of racist people doing -- trying to hold all black people accountable for crime committed by other black people. And somehow in their minds that justifies the police using unnecessary force against a black person.

Last edited by Pancakes; 31.01.2023 at 13:01.
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