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  #61  
Old 29.06.2020, 17:29
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Re: Jonathan Pie on "Woke Utopia"

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I'm watching amused in my own sphere of interest: "The new language for SPI pin labeling recommends the use of SDO/SDI (Serial Data Out/In) for single-role hardware, and COPI/CIPO for “Controller Out, Peripheral In” and “Controller In, Peripheral Out” for devices that can be either the controller or the peripheral. The change also updates the “SS” (Slave Select) pin to use “CS” (Chip Select)."

I'm too old and tired now. The Phil_MCR of years ago would have trolled them by complaining that "Controller out" is too dominating and should be replaced by "Suggester provider " and "Perpheral in" is too denigrating and passive and should be replaced with "Highly-valued input accepter".
I just read that three times and still can't manage to make any sense of it.
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  #62  
Old 29.06.2020, 17:56
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Re: Jonathan Pie on "Woke Utopia"

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I just read that three times and still can't manage to make any sense of it.
That's due to lack of domain knowledge.
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  #63  
Old 29.06.2020, 17:58
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Re: Jonathan Pie on "Woke Utopia"

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Wow, this sort of utterly one sided analysis
Which part of "an alternative view" do you fail to understand. Of course it's one sided.
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  #64  
Old 29.06.2020, 18:33
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Re: Jonathan Pie on "Woke Utopia"

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So who is it exactly that gets to determine what is and isn't racist? Who has that ultimate right? White people?
As much as black, yellow, red, blue or green people.

The fact that you deny a group of people an ability based on an immutable characteristic is on the same level as someone claiming that, for instance, black people are less intelligent. You have posted multiple classifications of the same kind, demonstrating your own racism.

You really couldn't make this stuff up.
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  #65  
Old 29.06.2020, 18:40
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Re: Jonathan Pie on "Woke Utopia"

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As much as black, yellow, red, blue or green people.

The fact that you deny a group of people an ability based on an immutable characteristic is on the same level as someone claiming that, for instance, black people are less intelligent. You have posted multiple classifications of the same kind, demonstrating your own racism.

You really couldn't make this stuff up.
Please show me some some examples of where I have (quote) "posted multiple classifications of the same kind, demonstrating [my] own racism." And then please explain how, exactly, what I posted is racist.
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  #66  
Old 29.06.2020, 18:42
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Re: Jonathan Pie on "Woke Utopia"

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That's due to lack of domain knowledge.
Or a case of input overload.
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  #67  
Old 29.06.2020, 19:13
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Re: Jonathan Pie on "Woke Utopia"

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Did a survey online from a dutch newspaper investigating racism in NL. One of the questions was, if there are only two empty seats on the bus, who would you sit next to:

A) white person
B) black person
C) dont know
Whichever was closet to the exit.

Tom
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  #68  
Old 29.06.2020, 19:19
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Re: Jonathan Pie on "Woke Utopia"

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Please show me some some examples of where I have (quote) "posted multiple classifications of the same kind, demonstrating [my] own racism." And then please explain how, exactly, what I posted is racist.
You deny ability, or exclude, based on skin color. Or assume that POV's are caused by the poster's skin. That's basically the definition racism - yours. And no, I won't quote more than I already did, feel free to scroll up.
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  #69  
Old 29.06.2020, 19:43
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Re: Jonathan Pie on "Woke Utopia"

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I don’t buy this, you see, no ones speech has been removed, in fact, the trouble is, you see, that people are actually speaking back to people who never thought people should ever question the things they say, this they equate to anti free speech, because they’re used to the opposite, they’re used to saying sexist and racist things and people should just nod or laugh politely, but should just keep quiet and not point it out
That's not what the clip is about.

It's about destroying careers, about canceling public persons, because someone dares to voice an opinion that doesn't exactly match the liberal narrative. The effect is, obviously, that of removing freedom of speech - not by the state(*) but by society - because people will think twice and prefer to not say anything going forward. Reportedly some people even go so far as to remove terms like "Asian recipes" from their blog or site.

It boils down to the same issue as MeTwo: Both have jumped the shark.
By doing so they undermine what used to be a justified cause. Consequentially they're doing themselves and their cause more harm than any outsider or counter-argument ever could.



(*) of course, legally speaking, the state is the only legal person freedom of speech affects, plus the citizens. But that's no longer how it's interpreted, it goes much further and even is expected to include private for-profit companies nowadays
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  #70  
Old 29.06.2020, 20:22
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Re: Jonathan Pie on "Woke Utopia"

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You deny ability, or exclude, based on skin color. Or assume that POV's are caused by the poster's skin. That's basically the definition racism - yours. And no, I won't quote more than I already did, feel free to scroll up.
Again, I asked you to show me some examples. You said that I have "posted multiple classifications of the same kind, demonstrating [my] own racism." And now you are saying that I "deny ability, or exclude, based on skin color. Or assume that POV's are caused by the poster's skin."

So again, please show me some examples. And if you don't, I can only assume that it's because you don't have any to show.
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  #71  
Old 29.06.2020, 21:11
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Re: Jonathan Pie on "Woke Utopia"

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Did a survey online from a dutch newspaper investigating racism in NL. One of the questions was, if there are only two empty seats on the bus, who would you sit next to:

A) white person
B) black person
C) dont know

To me a question like this tells me more about the level of racism from the person making up the questionaire...
Coming to think about it, seeing the white person and the black person are not sitting next to one another, they must both be racists by today's standards. Why then should I chose to sit next to a racist of any colour?
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  #72  
Old 29.06.2020, 21:21
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Re: Jonathan Pie on "Woke Utopia"

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Coming to think about it, seeing the white person and the black person are not sitting next to one another, they must both be racists by today's standards. Why then should I chose to sit next to a racist of any colour?
Or maybe they had simply each chosen to sit next to an empty seat while there were some available?
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  #73  
Old 29.06.2020, 21:34
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Re: Jonathan Pie on "Woke Utopia"

What do the woke people think about chess? After all, white starts
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  #74  
Old 29.06.2020, 22:42
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Re: Jonathan Pie on "Woke Utopia"

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What do the woke people think about chess? After all, white starts
Apparently, that wasn't always the case.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_and_Black_in_chess

When I play chess, I don't care who (or what color) goes first. I also don't view chess pieces as being symbolic of race.
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  #75  
Old 29.06.2020, 22:48
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Re: Jonathan Pie on "Woke Utopia"

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If having a statue of a racist slave owner in place is more important to you than black people being offended by it,
A white person can also be offended by a statue honouring a man who made money out of the Africa->US slave trade. But that's not the kind of offence I think you mean. I think you mean an emotional, visceral hurt. I can understand that and sympathise. Yeah - get rid of the statue. His kind were vilified way back. Before Twitter was invented. What idiot decided to put it up in the first place?

The question is why does the black person feel that hurt? My guess is that if there weren't such ongoing, egregious examples of maltreatment of black people in the US, which has been going on for so long, it wouldn't matter. It would be ancient history. The statue reminds that things are still really not where they should be.

And that is what needs to be addressed. I can't help feeling that felling statues, while perhaps a good way of achieving some anger release and personal satisfaction, is really just putting a plaster over the main issue of ongoing discrimination in many places due to skin colour. (And other things, but one step at a time). Could it be, if we remove the statues first, we're just removing the reminders, and actually making reform more difficult?
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  #76  
Old 29.06.2020, 23:29
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Re: Jonathan Pie on "Woke Utopia"

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What do the woke people think about chess? After all, white starts
This is already an issue for some, along with Kellog´s Choco Pops.

By the way, on a school bus at the time of Jim Crow.
The children are calling each other racist names and running up and down the bus, this goes on for a while until the bus driver has had enough and stops the bus.
He turns round and shouts: "You are all GREEN!" The children are quiet in awe at this new revelation...
"Right, now all sit down...
...the Light green to the front and the dark green to the back!"
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  #77  
Old 30.06.2020, 00:40
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Re: Jonathan Pie on "Woke Utopia"

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A white person can also be offended by a statue honouring a man who made money out of the Africa->US slave trade. But that's not the kind of offence I think you mean. I think you mean an emotional, visceral hurt. I can understand that and sympathise. Yeah - get rid of the statue. His kind were vilified way back. Before Twitter was invented. What idiot decided to put it up in the first place?

The question is why does the black person feel that hurt? My guess is that if there weren't such ongoing, egregious examples of maltreatment of black people in the US, which has been going on for so long, it wouldn't matter. It would be ancient history. The statue reminds that things are still really not where they should be.

And that is what needs to be addressed. I can't help feeling that felling statues, while perhaps a good way of achieving some anger release and personal satisfaction, is really just putting a plaster over the main issue of ongoing discrimination in many places due to skin colour. (And other things, but one step at a time). Could it be, if we remove the statues first, we're just removing the reminders, and actually making reform more difficult?
Good point.

There is a statue of Zwingli in the middle of Zurich. Zwingli fought Catholics and said a good many unpleasant things about them and killed a good many. As a nominal catholic I should feel terribly offended by his statue, but actually I don't care. I don't think any Catholic in Zürich cares.

So if you fix the underlying issues, people will stop being offended by statues.
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  #78  
Old 30.06.2020, 08:18
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Re: Jonathan Pie on "Woke Utopia"

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That's not what the clip is about.

It's about destroying careers, about canceling public persons, because someone dares to voice an opinion that doesn't exactly match the liberal narrative. The effect is, obviously, that of removing freedom of speech - not by the state(*) but by society - because people will think twice and prefer to not say anything going forward. Reportedly some people even go so far as to remove terms like "Asian recipes" from their blog or site.

It boils down to the same issue as MeTwo: Both have jumped the shark.
By doing so they undermine what used to be a justified cause. Consequentially they're doing themselves and their cause more harm than any outsider or counter-argument ever could.



(*) of course, legally speaking, the state is the only legal person freedom of speech affects, plus the citizens. But that's no longer how it's interpreted, it goes much further and even is expected to include private for-profit companies nowadays
I used to enjoy being politically incorrect. Then Jeremy Clarkson came along.
Maybe political incorrectness can used to camouflage inherently fascist, racist, sexist, ageist, whatever beliefs. If you have those beliefs then you have to take the consequences.
It is still possible to retain a sense of both humour and balance, speak ones mind and at the same time just avoid unnecessary triggers.
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  #79  
Old 30.06.2020, 20:08
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Re: Jonathan Pie on "Woke Utopia"

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I used to enjoy being politically incorrect. Then Jeremy Clarkson came along.
Maybe political incorrectness can used to camouflage inherently fascist, racist, sexist, ageist, whatever beliefs. If you have those beliefs then you have to take the consequences.
Do you really think Clarkson's sacking is comparable to Long-Bailey's?
And are you saying that her linking an article that criticizes Israel in passing constitutes anti-semitism?
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It is still possible to retain a sense of both humour and balance, speak ones mind and at the same time just avoid unnecessary triggers.
Define "unnecessary".

In a crowd of 100 people you will get many differing, often contradicting, definitions. To complicate things further, of course they are likely to depend both on the topic and on the person's POV on it.
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  #80  
Old 30.06.2020, 20:14
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Re: Jonathan Pie on "Woke Utopia"

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Define "unnecessary".
Possibly along these lines


"What I consider is unnecessary, is unnecessary."
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