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  #101  
Old 01.07.2020, 18:17
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Re: Jonathan Pie on "Woke Utopia"

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The fact Trump hasn't been "cancelled" renders your points moot.
Feel free to look up the difference between being elected and being appointed.

You can list as many people who haven't been canceled as you want, that doesn't take away the fact that many have been, and many more will follow, "thanks" to the mob.
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But for some reason there is some kind of branding going on. Both ways: the sjw and all the rest (the racists, psychopaths and sociopaths - ie those who think differently or use different terms, as is perceived by sjw). Branding -> elitism -> the opposite of inclusion that we see people campaigning for.
I don't think it's that. By labeling the other as some kind of -ist, the necessity for dialog is removed. "look how good, powerful and righteous I am, and will you please applaud", it's the equivalent of virtue signaling.
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  #102  
Old 01.07.2020, 20:33
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Re: Jonathan Pie on "Woke Utopia"

Except I do not see anyone asking us for applause. There is violence, vandalism and destruction going on, in the name of people who want their rights being defended actually in a better way. I would guess that majority of muslims do not want to have their faith defended by terorists either.

I think only toned down, sane, nuanced and fair exchange of points of view can actually do some progress. And before somebody jumps in to rub in my privilege or cites some paragraps from pop psychology - you do not know me.

Let us make space for ideas. Not assumptions.
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  #103  
Old 01.07.2020, 20:49
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Re: Jonathan Pie on "Woke Utopia"

There seems to be a lot of people who aren't able to distinguish between protestors and "looters." Someone marching and chanting with a sign isn't the same as someone who is lighting cars on fire or breaking out windows of buildings, etc. I think the "looters" clearly aren't or weren't really there for the right reasons in the first place. It's more like a situation that they took advantage of (which is sickening). So I don't think it's fair to equate them with those who are or were peacefully protesting. It's really sad, though, that many of the peaceful protestors were being pepper-sprayed or hit with rubber bullets, etc. due to the police being so pissed off about the looters.

But the media was certainly focusing more on the riots and looting than it was on the peaceful protests that were going on. I can't help but wonder if one of the reasons the US has become so extremely divided in the past X amount of years is due to the media, which seems to have become more and more one-sided and sensationalist over the years. It's all about keeping those ratings up, I guess.
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  #104  
Old 01.07.2020, 21:51
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Re: Jonathan Pie on "Woke Utopia"

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I think the "looters" clearly aren't or weren't really there for the right reasons in the first place.
Yep. No argument there.

Furthermore, you get certain types who will encourage looting and general rioting in order to try to foment rebellion, and/or take advantage of the chaos. It's a tried and tested technique.

Doesn't always work. C.f. Arthur Scargill.
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  #105  
Old 02.07.2020, 08:24
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Re: Jonathan Pie on "Woke Utopia"

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There seems to be a lot of people who aren't able to distinguish between protestors and "looters." Someone marching and chanting with a sign isn't the same as someone who is lighting cars on fire or breaking out windows of buildings, etc. I think the "looters" clearly aren't or weren't really there for the right reasons in the first place. It's more like a situation that they took advantage of (which is sickening). So I don't think it's fair to equate them with those who are or were peacefully protesting. It's really sad, though, that many of the peaceful protestors were being pepper-sprayed or hit with rubber bullets, etc. due to the police being so pissed off about the looters.

But the media was certainly focusing more on the riots and looting than it was on the peaceful protests that were going on. I can't help but wonder if one of the reasons the US has become so extremely divided in the past X amount of years is due to the media, which seems to have become more and more one-sided and sensationalist over the years. It's all about keeping those ratings up, I guess.
Many just see the Black Lives Matter movement for what it is, and yes that includes the protests. Friendly protesting with their antisemitic chants friendly protests that have quickly turned violent. Rioting and looting that has spread to Stuttgart, Brussels and London. It is a movement that should be rejected, utterly and wholeheartedly!
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  #106  
Old 02.07.2020, 10:05
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Re: Jonathan Pie on "Woke Utopia"

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Feel free to look up the difference between being elected and being appointed.

You can list as many people who haven't been canceled as you want, that doesn't take away the fact that many have been, and many more will follow, "thanks" to the mob.
I think you are letting emotion cloud your judgment here.

Absolutely nobody has been cancelled because of “mobs” but many people have been cancelled as their opinions are controversial and seen as a liability by the company that previously employed them. Mobs do not own their contracts, nor offer them new ones, this is entirely at the employers’ discretion.

If they are actually popular and the employer has made a grave mistake in not renewing their work, they will find it elsewhere. Market forces and all that.
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  #107  
Old 02.07.2020, 10:09
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Re: Jonathan Pie on "Woke Utopia"

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Many just see the Black Lives Matter movement for what it is, and yes that includes the protests. Friendly protesting with their antisemitic chants friendly protests that have quickly turned violent. Rioting and looting that has spread to Stuttgart, Brussels and London. It is a movement that should be rejected, utterly and wholeheartedly!
Excellent conflation of many groups into the BLM banner, bravo.

For anyone that wished to know what BLM really stands for, here is their manifesto (hint, it isn’t smashing up shops):

https://blacklivesmatter.com/what-we-believe/
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  #108  
Old 02.07.2020, 10:51
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Re: Jonathan Pie on "Woke Utopia"

I'm sure that if you dig around on the BNP website you'll find a place where they say they're not racist.

Do you believe them?

Better to judge them by what they do rather than what they say.

Ditto for BLM.
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  #109  
Old 02.07.2020, 10:57
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Re: Jonathan Pie on "Woke Utopia"

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Excellent conflation of many groups into the BLM banner, bravo.

For anyone that wished to know what BLM really stands for, here is their manifesto (hint, it isn’t smashing up shops):

https://blacklivesmatter.com/what-we-believe/
I have read what they stand for, there and and elsewhere through their online posts. They are nothing more than neo-Marxists antisemites, typical of the far left. Their website and social media posts have included defunding the police, the dismantling of capitalism, slavery reparations and disruption of the nuclear family structure (which ironically is the cause of many problems for black people!). It's a vile organisation that is exploiting genuine tragedies!
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  #110  
Old 02.07.2020, 11:04
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Re: Jonathan Pie on "Woke Utopia"

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I have read what they stand for, there and and elsewhere through their online posts. They are nothing more than neo-Marxists antisemites, typical of the far left. Their website and social media posts have included defunding the police, the dismantling of capitalism, slavery reparations and disruption of the nuclear family structure (which ironically is the cause of many problems for black people!). It's a vile organisation that is exploiting genuine tragedies!
Which of those things in your list is vile, supposed anti-semitism aside.
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  #111  
Old 02.07.2020, 11:20
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Re: Jonathan Pie on "Woke Utopia"

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Which of those things in your list is vile, supposed anti-semitism aside.

Nothing of course. Tony Clifton is just trolling you as we all know that communism leads us to equality, prosperity, freedom and happiness. There are so many historical examples for it. Really, it can't go wrong.
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  #112  
Old 02.07.2020, 11:36
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Re: Jonathan Pie on "Woke Utopia"

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Nothing of course. Tony Clifton is just trolling you as we all know that communism leads us to equality, prosperity, freedom and happiness. There are so many historical examples for it. Really, it can't go wrong.
It's a shame when differing opinions get referred to as vile.

People on this forum should really be a bit more open and tolerant.
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  #113  
Old 02.07.2020, 12:44
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Re: Jonathan Pie on "Woke Utopia"

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It's a shame when differing opinions get referred to as vile.

People on this forum should really be a bit more open and tolerant.
You wouldn't entertain a fascist for having "differing opinions". Likewise, nor should Black Lives Matter be given any tolerance for promoting a divisive, aggressive and anarchistic agenda!
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  #114  
Old 02.07.2020, 12:46
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Re: Jonathan Pie on "Woke Utopia"

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Which of those things in your list is vile, supposed anti-semitism aside.
I'd say all of them.
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Old 02.07.2020, 13:39
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Re: Jonathan Pie on "Woke Utopia"

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You wouldn't entertain a fascist for having "differing opinions". Likewise, nor should Black Lives Matter be given any tolerance for promoting a divisive, aggressive and anarchistic agenda!
I don't think BLM are particularly. I think you believe they are, for whatever reason, and won't be told otherwise.

We have plenty of fascists on this forum it seems, and their opinions seem to be tolerated, so not sure what you're getting at there really.
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  #116  
Old 02.07.2020, 14:06
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Re: Jonathan Pie on "Woke Utopia"

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We have plenty of fascists on this forum it seems, and their opinions seem to be tolerated, so not sure what you're getting at there really.
I think this is an example what the thread is about, a minority labeling people and expecting everything to change to suit them and applying guilt if they don't get it. I've been guilty of this in some situations as well.
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  #117  
Old 02.07.2020, 14:16
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Re: Jonathan Pie on "Woke Utopia"

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I think this is an example what the thread is about, a minority labeling people and expecting everything to change to suit them and applying guilt if they don't get it. I've been guilty of this in some situations as well.
I think I've been fairly clear on my expectations of anyone here changing anything.
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  #118  
Old 02.07.2020, 14:18
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Re: Jonathan Pie on "Woke Utopia"

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Don’t agree whole heartedly with people tearing down statues, for example, then you are labelled a racist and white supremist etc etc.
Nah, I still think it's stupid. I don't care about the labels some people would throw around.Expressing an opinion is riskier than ever, however, for the love of God - do it and be prepared to defend it.

Expecting to meet no opposition, from either left or right, it's simply naive though. It sounds more like self-entitlement to me.
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  #119  
Old 02.07.2020, 14:20
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Re: Jonathan Pie on "Woke Utopia"

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Nah, I still think it's stupid. I don't care about the labels some people would throw around.Expressing an opinion is riskier than ever, however, for the love of God - do it and be prepared to defend it.
Precisely this.
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  #120  
Old 02.07.2020, 14:40
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Re: Jonathan Pie on "Woke Utopia"

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I think this is an example what the thread is about, a minority labeling people and expecting everything to change to suit them and applying guilt if they don't get it. I've been guilty of this in some situations as well.
Everyone can get accused of being a fascist or a "woke" one, either successively or simultaneously ... Now that would make a good comedy topic.
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