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  #121  
Old 02.07.2020, 14:52
Ato Ato is offline
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Re: Jonathan Pie on "Woke Utopia"

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Everyone can get accused of being a fascist or a "woke" one, either successively or simultaneously ... Now that would make a good comedy topic.
I've been called both, sometimes during the same conversation by different people. I hate it when someone sticks a label on you and then acts as if they've won something.

For comedy I'd say you need to go for the classic odd couple thing with both people trying to show support for the other and failing miserably. It would insult both sides so easily it'd be cancelled in a week.
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  #122  
Old 02.07.2020, 15:26
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Re: Jonathan Pie on "Woke Utopia"

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I've been called both, sometimes during the same conversation by different people. I hate it when someone sticks a label on you and then acts as if they've won something.
.
You mean in real life or on EF? I can't imagine a situation irl when people would call each other these names (other than in jest). On EF....that's a different matter.

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I don’t buy this, you see, no ones speech has been removed, in fact, the trouble is, you see, that people are actually speaking back to people who never thought people should ever question the things they say, this they equate to anti free speech, because they’re used to the opposite, they’re used to saying sexist and racist things and people should just nod or laugh politely, but should just keep quiet and not point it out
I suppose this is comedy for some. It seems it's getting old and people are tired of old jokes, however, I don't doubt that some comedians still have their audience....however small.

Last edited by greenmount; 02.07.2020 at 15:50.
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  #123  
Old 02.07.2020, 15:44
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Re: Jonathan Pie on "Woke Utopia"

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You mean in real life or on EF? I can't imagine a situation irl when people would call each other these names (other than in jest). On EF....that's a different matter.
On EF more than once, in real life when I should have just kept my mouth shut!
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  #124  
Old 02.07.2020, 16:33
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Re: Jonathan Pie on "Woke Utopia"

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I think this is an example what the thread is about, a minority labeling people and expecting everything to change to suit them and applying guilt if they don't get it. I've been guilty of this in some situations as well.
Yes.

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Nothing of course. Tony Clifton is just trolling you as we all know that communism leads us to equality, prosperity, freedom and happiness. There are so many historical examples for it. Really, it can't go wrong.
Fun aside (and you are right, of course, I lived it) - have you seen the news from Russia lately or Hong Kong..Big brother might not be about freedom and happiness but he will make you think so.

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It's a shame when differing opinions get referred to as vile.

People on this forum should really be a bit more open and tolerant.
Do you travel all fora with this message?
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  #125  
Old 02.07.2020, 16:33
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Re: Jonathan Pie on "Woke Utopia"

I see Cecil Rhodes has been cancelled by Oxford Uni
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  #126  
Old 02.07.2020, 17:40
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Re: Jonathan Pie on "Woke Utopia"

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Except I do not see anyone asking us for applause. There is violence, vandalism and destruction going on, in the name of people who want their rights being defended actually in a better way. I would guess that majority of muslims do not want to have their faith defended by terorists either.
The applause, positive feedback in general, comes from the peers. What you get from within the bubble is positive feedback, little to none negative. After all, people who aren't fully in line are usually demonised and cast out. Incidentally, that also removes the need for nuance, black and white (figuratively) is all that remains.
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We have plenty of fascists on this forum it seems, and their opinions seem to be tolerated, so not sure what you're getting at there really.
This is the "tolerance" the above fosters. What opposes a certain group's view is almost automatically labeled as some kind of negative -ist.

Thank you, HM, for proving my point.
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  #127  
Old 02.07.2020, 17:49
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Re: Jonathan Pie on "Woke Utopia"

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This is the "tolerance" the above fosters. What opposes a certain group's view is almost automatically labeled as some kind of negative -ist.

Thank you, HM, for proving my point.
And I'd like to thank all the red mark givers from that post for signposting who the people with the fascist tendencies are. Remarkable how easy that was to elicit. Thanks to the greater number of green people who clearly share this viewpoint too.

Not sure why you are getting wound up by such a statement unless you feel it applies to you UM - I certainly didn't mention you by name ever.
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  #128  
Old 02.07.2020, 18:37
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Re: Jonathan Pie on "Woke Utopia"

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And I'd like to thank all the red mark givers from that post for signposting who the people with the fascist tendencies are. Remarkable how easy that was to elicit. Thanks to the greater number of green people who clearly share this viewpoint too.

Not sure why you are getting wound up by such a statement unless you feel it applies to you UM - I certainly didn't mention you by name ever.
Congrats, you've just won the internets. All of them.
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  #129  
Old 02.07.2020, 19:22
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Re: Jonathan Pie on "Woke Utopia"

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I've been called both, sometimes during the same conversation by different people.
#metoo

According to some, I'm a woke left-wing liberal. To others, I'm a raving fascist who thinks Hitler was a bit wet. Only online though. IRL, people tend to be more nuanced... coupled with the fact I don't generally hang out with opinionated idiots.
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  #130  
Old 02.07.2020, 19:28
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Re: Jonathan Pie on "Woke Utopia"

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The applause, positive feedback in general, comes from the peers. What you get from within the bubble is positive feedback, little to none negative. After all, people who aren't fully in line are usually demonised and cast out. Incidentally, that also removes the need for nuance, black and white (figuratively) is all that remains.

This is the "tolerance" the above fosters. What opposes a certain group's view is almost automatically labeled as some kind of negative -ist.

Thank you, HM, for proving my point.
In the incinerator, you must go
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  #131  
Old 02.07.2020, 19:57
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Re: Jonathan Pie on "Woke Utopia"

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#metoo

According to some, I'm a woke left-wing liberal. To others, I'm a raving fascist who thinks Hitler was a bit wet. Only online though. IRL, people tend to be more nuanced... coupled with the fact I don't generally hang out with opinionated idiots.
Well you know what they say, if nobody in your group of friends is the opinionated idiot...
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  #132  
Old 02.07.2020, 21:53
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Re: Jonathan Pie on "Woke Utopia"

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Well you know what they say, if nobody in your group of friends is the opinionated idiot...
Well, that might apply to your social circle, sure. But perhaps consider this.

Oh, and I have no friends, so your point is moot.

Last edited by NotAllThere; 03.07.2020 at 11:41.
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  #133  
Old 02.07.2020, 22:16
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Re: Jonathan Pie on "Woke Utopia"

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Well, that might apply to your social circle, sure. But perhaps consider this.

Oh, and I have no friends, so your point is moot.
It was friendly banter. I even used an emoticon.
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  #134  
Old 03.07.2020, 08:02
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Re: Jonathan Pie on "Woke Utopia"

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Only online though. IRL, people tend to be more nuanced... coupled with the fact I don't generally hang out with opinionated idiots.
#metoo
Certain comments/rants are definitely good criteria to keep the "opinionated idiots" out of one's circle. You can nod and laugh politely, however, giving access is a different matter.

To each their own.

Btw, had no idea who "Jonathan Pie" was before I saw this thread. Frankly I can't say I'll watch him from now on but thanks anyway.

Last edited by greenmount; 03.07.2020 at 08:26.
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  #135  
Old 03.07.2020, 10:35
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Re: Jonathan Pie on "Woke Utopia"

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And I'd like to thank all the red mark givers from that post for signposting who the people with the fascist tendencies are.
What are 'fascist tendencies'?
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  #136  
Old 03.07.2020, 11:08
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Re: Jonathan Pie on "Woke Utopia"

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What are 'fascist tendencies'?
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It seems a bit creepy to want to have children if you're not interested in having sex with a woman to create one.
I dunno, wanting to legislate against minorities whose lifestyles you disagree with?
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  #137  
Old 03.07.2020, 11:43
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Re: Jonathan Pie on "Woke Utopia"

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It was friendly banter. I even used an emoticon.
So is mine. But I've edited it now, so you don't have to feel bad.

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Btw, had no idea who "Jonathan Pie" was before I saw this thread. Frankly I can't say I'll watch him from now on but thanks anyway.
I'd heard of him and see some of other videos, but the polemic in this particular rant was rather exquisite.
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  #138  
Old 03.07.2020, 11:58
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Re: Jonathan Pie on "Woke Utopia"

Yes, European and American White people were not the only ones engaged in the slave trade. People should at least be informed what was happening in West Africa and Zanzibar on the East African coast from the 1500's on.

Slaves sold into the Middle East were (generally) castrated, so they would not "breed." Conditions were often even worse than in the Americas.

So plenty of guilt to spread around. BLMs motives and timing are questionable, at best.

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But why do we have to come in terms with that past? And why only with a specific part of it? And why should only the white guy feel quilt over something that was practiced generations ago and worldwide by all? It is as stupid and misplaced as that in hundred years my small-small children would demand things from the Germans for invading the Netherlands 180 years ago.

They can kiss my ass with their quilt bull-shit.
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  #139  
Old 03.07.2020, 12:19
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Re: Jonathan Pie on "Woke Utopia"

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Yes, European and American White people were not the only ones engaged in the slave trade. People should at least be informed what was happening in West Africa and Zanzibar on the East African coast from the 1500's on.

Slaves sold into the Middle East were (generally) castrated, so they would not "breed." Conditions were often even worse than in the Americas.

So plenty of guilt to spread around. BLMs motives and timing are questionable, at best.
I'm not sure guilt should be the main driving force for white europeans in this debate - I think anyone with that takeaway has got it wrong.

If we take the USA as our example, what it does take is an acknowledgement of the inferior conditions black people had for a significant amount of time, and an empathy to try and equalise their position today.

The best way to do this is of course a complicated debate, however, sticking your fingers in your ears shouting "it wasn't me, it was my grandad" isn't really moving the debate along. Whether people care to admit it or not, their privileged positions have often been built up off the back of slavery and keeping black people down since slavery was abolished.

Until everyone can be introspective and honest enough to recognise this, we'll always have heated debates on the topic of race.
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Old 03.07.2020, 12:35
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Re: Jonathan Pie on "Woke Utopia"

OK - Let's use the term culpability in my post, though I was responding to EdwinNL's post where he used "guilt."

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I'm not sure guilt should be the main driving force for white europeans in this debate - I think anyone with that takeaway has got it wrong.

If we take the USA as our example, what it does take is an acknowledgement of the inferior conditions black people had for a significant amount of time, and an empathy to try and equalise their position today.

The best way to do this is of course a complicated debate, however, sticking your fingers in your ears shouting "it wasn't me, it was my grandad" isn't really moving the debate along. Whether people care to admit it or not, their privileged positions have often been built up off the back of slavery and keeping black people down since slavery was abolished.

Until everyone can be introspective and honest enough to recognise this, we'll always have heated debates on the topic of race.
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