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  #141  
Old 03.07.2020, 12:42
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Re: Jonathan Pie on "Woke Utopia"

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OK - Let's use the term culpability in my post, though I was responding to EdwinNL's post where he used "guilt."
Sure, not arguing with you, just trying to explain to Edwin and others, the other side of the argument.
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  #142  
Old 03.07.2020, 12:45
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Re: Jonathan Pie on "Woke Utopia"

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I'm not sure guilt should be the main driving force for white europeans in this debate - I think anyone with that takeaway has got it wrong.

If we take the USA as our example, what it does take is an acknowledgement of the inferior conditions black people had for a significant amount of time, and an empathy to try and equalise their position today.
Equality is a myth.
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  #143  
Old 03.07.2020, 12:55
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Re: Jonathan Pie on "Woke Utopia"

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Equality is a myth.
Equality of what? Races? Individuals? Social Classes?

Could you expand a bit?
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  #144  
Old 04.07.2020, 10:58
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Re: Jonathan Pie on "Woke Utopia"

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Equality is a myth.
I think it is a great idea.
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  #145  
Old 16.07.2020, 11:36
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Re: Jonathan Pie on "Woke Utopia"

Interesting development. Wrongthink that Pie was talking about..

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.was...outputType=amp

Last edited by MusicChick; 16.07.2020 at 11:52.
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  #146  
Old 21.07.2020, 14:58
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Re: Jonathan Pie on "Woke Utopia"

Thought this video was quite funny.

'When Wokes and Racists Actually Agree on Everything'

https://mobile.twitter.com/ryanlongc...08497517473793
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  #147  
Old 21.07.2020, 18:40
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Re: Jonathan Pie on "Woke Utopia"

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Thought this video was quite funny.

'When Wokes and Racists Actually Agree on Everything'

https://mobile.twitter.com/ryanlongc...08497517473793
Somehow I missed the joke, was there one?
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  #148  
Old 21.07.2020, 20:36
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Re: Jonathan Pie on "Woke Utopia"

I find it quite sad that some people try to use the term "woke" derogatorily to refer to people who are against racism. If it wasn't for "woke" people, wouldn't we still be enslaving black people, forcing them to sit at the back of the bus, etc.?
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Old 21.07.2020, 20:49
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Re: Jonathan Pie on "Woke Utopia"

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I find it quite sad that some people try to use the term "woke" derogatorily to refer to people who are against racism. If it wasn't for "woke" people, wouldn't we still be enslaving black people, forcing them to sit at the back of the bus, etc.?
I beg to differ. The reason why systemic racism doesn't exist today is because of human individuals recognizing what was wrong and then doing something about it. The idiots who claim they're woke are nothing but woke idiots. I have yet to see a more misinformed and vicious group of people than the woke left. They make the KKK look intelligent and organized, which is an achievement in itself.
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  #150  
Old 21.07.2020, 21:08
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Re: Jonathan Pie on "Woke Utopia"

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I beg to differ. The reason why systemic racism doesn't exist today is because of human individuals recognizing what was wrong and then doing something about it. The idiots who claim they're woke are nothing but woke idiots. I have yet to see a more misinformed and vicious group of people than the woke left. They make the KKK look intelligent and organized, which is an achievement in itself.
I don't know. My best friend is a psychology professor and teaches classes about racism. She wasn't active in the protests because of the riots and the fear of being gassed or pepper-sprayed by the police. I don't think you can say that everyone who is anti-racism is an idiot. And I think it's all too easy for someone to say that systemic racism doesn't exist today if it's something that they themselves don't have to deal with or experience. The majority of my past employers in the US would have never hired a black person because they were admittedly racist. Both of my parents are racist as were their parents. And in the city where I grew up, a very large percentage of white people are racist.

One example I remember of experiencing racism coming from my parents is when one day we were sitting on my mother's front porch, and a black guy and his little girl walked by. The little girl was skipping, and my mother said "He needs to watch her. If she falls and gets hurt, they can sue us." I looked at her and said: "Would you be saying that or worrying about that if they were white?" And she said "No."

Also, all you have to do is go into the comments sections on the Fox News website to see how alive racism still is in the US today. As an example, whenever there is an article about a black person having committed a crime, you will see a lot of people in there trying to blame that crime on ALL black people.

But again, I guess it's easy to try to deny the existence of racism when it's not something that you yourself have to deal with.
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  #151  
Old 21.07.2020, 21:29
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Re: Jonathan Pie on "Woke Utopia"

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I find it quite sad that some people try to use the term "woke" derogatorily to refer to people who are against racism. If it wasn't for "woke" people, wouldn't we still be enslaving black people, forcing them to sit at the back of the bus, etc.?
NO! It wasn't "woke" people that abolished slavery, it was freedom of thought, something that the Wokus Dei cult wants to cancel. Our society was the first to outlaw slavery, and now we're supposed to apologize for it!?

Have you ever stopped to wonder how pretty much every single "minority" still practices slavery in one form or another all EXCEPT the majority that is supposed to be responsible for it?
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  #152  
Old 21.07.2020, 22:14
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Re: Jonathan Pie on "Woke Utopia"

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I don't know. My best friend is a psychology professor and teaches classes about racism. She wasn't active in the protests because of the riots and the fear of being gassed or pepper-sprayed by the police. I don't think you can say that everyone who is anti-racism is an idiot. And I think it's all too easy for someone to say that systemic racism doesn't exist today if it's something that they themselves don't have to deal with or experience. The majority of my past employers in the US would have never hired a black person because they were admittedly racist. Both of my parents are racist as were their parents. And in the city where I grew up, a very large percentage of white people are racist.

One example I remember of experiencing racism coming from my parents is when one day we were sitting on my mother's front porch, and a black guy and his little girl walked by. The little girl was skipping, and my mother said "He needs to watch her. If she falls and gets hurt, they can sue us." I looked at her and said: "Would you be saying that or worrying about that if they were white?" And she said "No."

Also, all you have to do is go into the comments sections on the Fox News website to see how alive racism still is in the US today. As an example, whenever there is an article about a black person having committed a crime, you will see a lot of people in there trying to blame that crime on ALL black people.

But again, I guess it's easy to try to deny the existence of racism when it's not something that you yourself have to deal with.
Looks to me like you're feeling guilty for your families' behavior and (over)compensating...
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  #153  
Old 21.07.2020, 22:17
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Re: Jonathan Pie on "Woke Utopia"

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NO! It wasn't "woke" people that abolished slavery, it was freedom of thought, something that the Wokus Dei cult wants to cancel. Our society was the first to outlaw slavery, and now we're supposed to apologize for it!?

Have you ever stopped to wonder how pretty much every single "minority" still practices slavery in one form or another all EXCEPT the majority that is supposed to be responsible for it?
Slavery was one example that I gave. What I meant with that was, if we had never acknowledged the existence of racism, then wouldn't we be still be condoning the enslavement of black people and/or forcing them to sit on the back of the bus, treating them as inferior human beings, etc.? Just 50 or so years ago, it was a social norm to consider black people as being inferior to whites and to treat them accordingly. And one thing I remember a professor of sociology saying in a class that I once took in university is that "Social change follows legislation slowly."

I would never refer to myself as "woke," but I am also not asking anyone to apologize for slavery. However, I do think that refusing to acknowledge the existence of racism toward blacks in America is rather ignorant, and particularly when there are so many obvious examples of it being reported in the news, etc.
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  #154  
Old 21.07.2020, 22:35
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Re: Jonathan Pie on "Woke Utopia"

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I find it quite sad that some people try to use the term "woke" derogatorily to refer to people who are against racism. If it wasn't for "woke" people, wouldn't we still be enslaving black people, forcing them to sit at the back of the bus, etc.?
Most wokesters tend to be pretty selective about what type of racism they are against though.
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  #155  
Old 21.07.2020, 22:39
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Re: Jonathan Pie on "Woke Utopia"

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Most wokesters tend to be pretty selective about what type of racism they are against though.
Again, I would never consider myself "woke," but I think I am against all forms of racism. I remember the one time I ever experienced racism against myself, for being white. I was about 10 years old and a black girl threw a rock at my head and said something about me being white. It confused me, because I had no idea why she did that.

In my opinion, it's wrong to treat anyone badly simply due to the color of their skin. So yes, I do acknowledge that some black people are racist toward whites. But that doesn't somehow make it okay for white people to be racist toward blacks.
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  #156  
Old 21.07.2020, 22:52
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Re: Jonathan Pie on "Woke Utopia"

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I beg to differ. The reason why systemic racism doesn't exist today is because of human individuals recognizing what was wrong and then doing something about it. The idiots who claim they're woke are nothing but woke idiots. I have yet to see a more misinformed and vicious group of people than the woke left. They make the KKK look intelligent and organized, which is an achievement in itself.
Seriously? When did this great awareness and rectification by human individuals take place? Because there is still institutionalized racism in the US.

Wokeness would appear to be mostly bullshit, though, although whether the woke are worse than the KKK.......nah, thatís even more bullshit.
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  #157  
Old 21.07.2020, 22:57
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Re: Jonathan Pie on "Woke Utopia"

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Seriously? When did this great awareness and rectification by human individuals take place? Because there is still institutionalized racism in the US.

Wokeness would appear to be mostly bullshit, though, although whether the woke are worse than the KKK.......nah, thatís even more bullshit.
There is institutionalized racism? Prove it.

Furthermore, how many people have the KKK killed in recent times?
How many people were killed by leftist just since George Floyd's death? I rest my case.
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  #158  
Old 21.07.2020, 23:06
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Re: Jonathan Pie on "Woke Utopia"

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There is institutionalized racism? Prove it.
Affirmative action.
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Old 21.07.2020, 23:23
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Re: Jonathan Pie on "Woke Utopia"

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There is institutionalized racism? Prove it.

Furthermore, how many people have the KKK killed in recent times?
How many people were killed by leftist just since George Floyd's death? I rest my case.
Wealth disparity, health disparity, differing incarceration rates, food security issues. Differing rates of COVID-19 mortality. Breast cancer mortality disparities. Voter suppression. If you think there’s no institutionalized racism in the US, you’re asleep at the wheel.


I just read a story about how most dermatology texts use white skin as standard, making diagnoses of non white skin difficult. No one thought to include other skin colors. That omission is institutionalized racism - failing to recognize differences.

But hey, believe what you will. And affirmative action has helped more than hurt - most of the people who feel it is racist perceive some missed opportunity from it.

I’m sure all the apologists will flock here now with their wise comments.

Good night.
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Old 21.07.2020, 23:32
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Re: Jonathan Pie on "Woke Utopia"

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Wealth disparity, health disparity, differing incarceration rates, food security issues. Differing rates of COVID-19 mortality. Breast cancer mortality disparities. Voter suppression. If you think there’s no institutionalized racism in the US, you’re asleep at the wheel.


I just read a story about how most dermatology texts use white skin as standard, making diagnoses of non white skin difficult. No one thought to include other skin colors. That omission is institutionalized racism - failing to recognize differences.

But hey, believe what you will. And affirmative action has helped more than hurt - most of the people who feel it is racist perceive some missed opportunity from it.

I’m sure all the apologists will flock here now with their wise comments.

Good night.
Basically, African-Americans nowadays score worse on your aforementioned topics than before the civil rights movement. You know, that period when institutionalized racism was in place, along with segregation, etc. Do you possibly think, that it has anything to do with creating babies out of wedlock (including the highest abortion rate), the lack of education and the mere fact, that if you create crimes at a higher rate, that you'd possible get a higher incarceration rate? By all means, are you saying, that the U.S. is more racist now than before the civil rights movement? I highly doubt it. Go to bed Nana.
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