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Old 21.07.2020, 23:34
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Re: Jonathan Pie on "Woke Utopia"

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Looks to me like you're feeling guilty for your families' behavior and (over)compensating...
No, but nice try.

I dated a guy who is half black for four years when I was in my 20s and couldn't even take him around my family because they would have made their racism apparent and that would have put him in a very uncomfortable position.

I think I've just learned from experience the ways racism can manifest and the ways people can try to deny that they're racist and the ways they try to rationalize it as a means of trying to excuse it. I grew up in a city in the US that is infamous for being racist and for its racial tensions. It's one of the reasons I first studied sociology in uni before changing my major.
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  #162  
Old 21.07.2020, 23:37
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Re: Jonathan Pie on "Woke Utopia"

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Basically, African-Americans nowadays score worse on your aforementioned topics than before the civil rights movement. You know, that period when institutionalized racism was in place, along with segregation, etc. Do you possibly think, that it has anything to do with creating babies out of wedlock (including the highest abortion rate), the lack of education and the mere fact, that if you create crimes at a higher rate, that you'd possible get a higher incarceration rate? By all means, are you saying, that the U.S. is more racist now than before the civil rights movement? I highly doubt it. Go to bed Nana.
Don’t patronize me, cupcake. Not your nana, and thank dog for that.

I’m saying racism is not as diminished as we might like to think. But ok.
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  #163  
Old 21.07.2020, 23:41
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Re: Jonathan Pie on "Woke Utopia"

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Basically, African-Americans nowadays score worse on your aforementioned topics than before the civil rights movement. You know, that period when institutionalized racism was in place, along with segregation, etc. Do you possibly think, that it has anything to do with creating babies out of wedlock (including the highest abortion rate), the lack of education and the mere fact, that if you create crimes at a higher rate, that you'd possible get a higher incarceration rate? By all means, are you saying, that the U.S. is more racist now than before the civil rights movement? I highly doubt it. Go to bed Nana.
Are you implying that white people don't create babies out of wedlock, don't have abortions and don't commit crime? You should do some research on the correlation between crime and poverty and the ways it is very difficult to climb out of poverty in the US, particularly as a black person.

When you see a white person who has committed a crime, do you instinctively think that it has something to do with their skin color? And yet when you see in the news that a black person has committed a crime, do you instinctively generalize that to be a "black problem" -- to have something to do with their skin color?

If so, well... THAT, my dear, is racism.
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  #164  
Old 21.07.2020, 23:48
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Re: Jonathan Pie on "Woke Utopia"

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Don’t patronize me, cupcake. Not your nana, and thank dog for that.

I’m saying racism is not as diminished as we might like to think. But ok.
Oh it is very much different. The dermatologist is precisely the point. If an attribute of mine is different from the majority, then I wouldn't make a fuss out of it, if mainstream services don't cater to my needs but I would actively seek out some entity which spcializes in my attribute. I wouldn't call it racism and yes, I've been in that situation before. But noooo, let's make a big deal out of every possible inconvenience, the left will listen to all that hogwash and the media doesn't have anything better to do than to cry wolf. Instead of dealing with real issues, people with your mindset tend to be part of the problem. Do you realize that now in 2020, the KKK is less hazardous and dangerous to black people than BLM? Think, it's not illegal yet.
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  #165  
Old 22.07.2020, 00:00
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Re: Jonathan Pie on "Woke Utopia"

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Oh it is very much different. The dermatologist is precisely the point. If an attribute of mine is different from the majority, then I wouldn't make a fuss out of it, if mainstream services don't cater to my needs but I would actively seek out some entity which spcializes in my attribute. I wouldn't call it racism and yes, I've been in that situation before. But noooo, let's make a big deal out of every possible inconvenience, the left will listen to all that hogwash and the media doesn't have anything better to do than to cry wolf. Instead of dealing with real issues, people with your mindset tend to be part of the problem. Do you realize that now in 2020, the KKK is less hazardous and dangerous to black people than BLM? Think, it's not illegal yet.

You really do not get it.
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  #166  
Old 22.07.2020, 09:16
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Re: Jonathan Pie on "Woke Utopia"

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Are you implying that white people don't create babies out of wedlock, don't have abortions and don't commit crime?
Obviously white people also have babies out of wedlock and commit crimes - the difference is once these decisions start to negatively impact their lives nobody makes excuses for them or blames vague concepts of racism for their mistakes.
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Old 22.07.2020, 09:57
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Re: Jonathan Pie on "Woke Utopia"

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Obviously white people also have babies out of wedlock and commit crimes - the difference is once these decisions start to negatively impact their lives nobody makes excuses for them or blames vague concepts of racism for their mistakes.
I think you'll find that all and any sorts of "excuses" are used across the world, across culture, race, colour, class to explain why poor people tend more to engage in criminal behaviour, and why this is promulgated down the generations.

In many people's eyes, these "excuses" are, often, actually genuine reasons (as opposed to justification). To suggest that the treatment of black people across the generations, and indeed ongoing, in the US is not a large part of the cause for their general place in society now is absurd.

Using history to explain why things are as they are is not the same as trying to excuse it, using it to try to ensure that past mistakes are recognised and not repeated must surely be to everyone's advantage?

Last edited by Guest; 22.07.2020 at 10:25.
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  #168  
Old 22.07.2020, 11:02
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Re: Jonathan Pie on "Woke Utopia"

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Obviously white people also have babies out of wedlock and commit crimes - the difference is once these decisions start to negatively impact their lives nobody makes excuses for them or blames vague concepts of racism for their mistakes.
I have never seen or heard of any black people trying to blame black people having babies out of wedlock or crimes committed by black people on racism. Can you please provide evidence of some examples of that? And even if there are some who do, why would you extend that mentality onto ALL black people, and why would anyone think that all black people deserve to be condemned for the thoughts or actions of a few? That is the essence of the problem with racism -- generalizations -- and thinking that someone is "the other" simply because their skin color is different from your own. That leads to dehumanizing and people not seeing someone as a fellow human being but rather as someone who is different from themselves simply because their melanin content is different from their own.

I actually had to explain to my 8-year old recently why he shouldn't point out the fact that someone's skin color is different from his own and how it makes no difference in how that person is, as a person. There is a girl in our neighborhood who is black and she was here swimming the other day. My son said something to me about the fact that she is "brown" and so I had to have "the talk" with him about how that makes absolutely no difference, just like whether or not someone has blue or brown eyes.

Last edited by Pancakes; 22.07.2020 at 11:21.
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