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  #3641  
Old 07.01.2021, 16:14
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Re: Trump or Biden .Who you got?

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Yeah, and this goes back to my original point. The police in general did NOT allow all the protesters to gain access to the building. See my earlier post, with the video links and the photos -- where protestors were breaking down barricades and trying to force their way in and breaking out windows of the Capitol building and climbing inside, scaling walls, etc. The video that you had posted shows one police officer finally opening a barricade after protestors were pushing their way in. That is NOT the police in general. My other statement was a hypothetical comment -- that if you believe the protesters were allowed in and did nothing wrong because they were simply taking selfies then you are okay with the fact that they were also assaulting police officers and breaking out windows, etc. Or is it that you just forgot to mention that and/or chose to ignore it?

Jesus. Trying to engage in an intelligent conversation with you is like trying to have a rational, intelligent conversation with a two-year old.

You clearly perceive and filter events according to what you want to be true rather than what is true. You cherry-pick information and ignore anything that conflicts with your cognitive biases.

I'm going to put you back on my ignore list because I'd rather not waste any more of my time trying to engage in rational conversations with irrational people on the Internet. Biden's win was made official today. This is a day of celebration for me -- not a day to waste arguing with denialists on the Internet.
Yes, I know that, everything isn't black and white you know. You make it sound like I'm denying there was a protest yesterday I was writing in the context of the post I was replying to, in that this whole thing could have been avoided were there decent security in place in the first place. Those protestors wouldn't have gotten anywhere had they been dealt with robustly. As it was police didn't put much resistance up and in some cases let gave them access.

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Ah. So you are now saying your words were misconstrued? How do you know they were mostly unarmed? Has that been verified? They looked like a fairly organised, violent mob. They chased police. Their body language alone was threatening.
I think your post typifies the biggest problem we face at the moment, in that people can't even agree on the reality of what they've seen.
  #3642  
Old 07.01.2021, 16:15
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Re: Trump or Biden .Who you got?

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Jesus. Trying to engage in an intelligent conversation with you is like trying to have a rational, intelligent conversation with a two-year old.
I think my 2yo grandson could run rings around him.

But be fair. His mind is probably disturbed by the loss of one of his heros. Plus the knowledge that even most Americans didn't want Trump.
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  #3643  
Old 07.01.2021, 16:15
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Re: Trump or Biden .Who you got?

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You mean like this?

https://www.news.com.au/technology/o...d23cf5536c5d02

Or this?

https://twitter.com/jihanbit/status/1346909463660396550

I'll ask you now for a second time, to please give an example of what you claim I said.
So the cops moved the barricades to let them protest in the grounds as was their right and you use that as evidence of a media conspiracy to misrepresent the later storming of the building and associated violence? Hmm ok. How about you try again and present evidence of a major news organisation, reporting a real item of fake news, something patently false, not some misreporting that was later corrected but an actual blatant lie by say, trumps favourite whipping boy CNN, lets have it.
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  #3644  
Old 07.01.2021, 16:26
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Re: Trump or Biden .Who you got?

So what you're saying is I can take any sentence a person writes, add a few extra bits to it, spin it a few times, add some more bits and then call a person an idiot.
Police moved barricades might not equal police let the rioters/protesters/patriots/treasonists walk in. But saying the police let them walk in also doesn't mean that somebody approves of assaulting the police.

The amount of times on this forum that people spin things to the nth degree is getting silly.
People want to "Heal and unify" the two warring parties of the USA by calling anyone who disagrees with them an idiot. I can see this going well for the next few years.
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  #3645  
Old 07.01.2021, 16:30
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Re: Trump or Biden .Who you got?

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I think your post typifies the biggest problem we face at the moment, in that people can't even agree on the reality of what they've seen.
I think a lot of people have no trouble agreeing with what they saw.

What would be a "robust " defence? What should the overwhelmed and outnumbered police who have never encountered the like before have done? I saw them stand what ground they could, call for reinforcement and use batons and sprays.


I'm pretty certain my posts aren't the issue.


For those interested, @robertmooreitv has a 7 min vid on Twitter showing the protesters coming into the building.
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  #3646  
Old 07.01.2021, 16:32
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Re: Trump or Biden .Who you got?

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So what you're saying is I can take any sentence a person writes, add a few extra bits to it, spin it a few times, add some more bits and then call a person an idiot.
Police moved barricades might not equal police let the rioters/protesters/patriots/treasonists walk in. But saying the police let them walk in also doesn't mean that somebody approves of assaulting the police.

The amount of times on this forum that people spin things to the nth degree is getting silly.
People want to "Heal and unify" the two warring parties of the USA by calling anyone who disagrees with them an idiot. I can see this going well for the next few years.
This is what Tony had said and what I had responded to, initially.

"This is what I'm trying quite hard to understand. Why is the world losing their minds when the police literally opened up the front doors and let them in? The fact that the guy appearing on all the front pages is topless and wearing a Jamiroquai hat should give an indication of how much of a serious threat to democracy this posed."

He was cherry-picking in order to try to downplay what actually happened yesterday. Hence, my comment that he must be okay with the fact that police officers were assaulted, etc. because he ignored that in his comment and instead tried to phrase it as though it was simply a matter of people being let in by the police and simply taking selfies.

I'm done with this conversation.
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  #3647  
Old 07.01.2021, 17:00
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Re: Trump or Biden .Who you got?

Come on man!
Insulting and ostracizing each other gets us nowhere.
It doesnt matter if you listen to Bob Dylan or 2Pac, the calls for revolution have been there for decades now and across all spectrums. Congress has an 18% approval rating which means 82% of Americans feel disenfranchised and without a party that represents them. 82%
People are losing their houses and the shirts off of their backs as congress hands out corporate bailouts on a silver platter but can't even agree on giving the people leftover scraps without adding a ton of pork to it. People are hurting and they need help now! This anger is not going away any time soon. We can use this opportunity and energy to come together and create something beautiful like a third or even fourth party. Or we can follow the media driven narrative and continue to let it distract and divide us. These events and protests (from both sides) over the last year goes far beyond Trump or Biden.
__________________
LET'S GO BRANDON!
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  #3648  
Old 07.01.2021, 17:09
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Re: Trump or Biden .Who you got?

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It doesnt matter if you listen to Bob Dylan or 2Pac, the calls for revolution have been there for decades now and across all spectrums. Congress has an 18% approval rating which means 82% of Americans feel disenfranchised and without a party that represents them. 82%
That's a good example and I agree with you re the disenfranchised people. I assume that part of the problem is also the fact that the system is so complicated that people feel completely disconnected. The whole election process in the US is stupidly complicated and geared towards re-confirming the dual-party setup. I don't have a clue how this could be solved, but there's a good saying that if you want to move a cemetery, don't expect help from within.

So indeed, maybe the sort of a massive protests from both sides over the past years could hopefully serve as a catalyst for an overhaul. In that sense, in retrospect maybe Trump will end up with a positive legacy - his incompetence triggered such massive discontent that changed the system for the better. Wishful thinking? Possibly, but it could happen
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  #3649  
Old 07.01.2021, 17:16
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Re: Trump or Biden .Who you got?

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I'm done with this conversation.
agreed. DO NOT FEED

Last edited by 3Wishes; 07.01.2021 at 19:41. Reason: fixed quote
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  #3650  
Old 07.01.2021, 17:21
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Re: Trump or Biden .Who you got?

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agreed. DO NOT FEED
So your're ok with starving children?
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  #3651  
Old 07.01.2021, 17:29
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Re: Trump or Biden .Who you got?

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That's a good example and I agree with you re the disenfranchised people. I assume that part of the problem is also the fact that the system is so complicated that people feel completely disconnected. The whole election process in the US is stupidly complicated and geared towards re-confirming the dual-party setup. I don't have a clue how this could be solved, but there's a good saying that if you want to move a cemetery, don't expect help from within.

So indeed, maybe the sort of a massive protests from both sides over the past years could hopefully serve as a catalyst for an overhaul. In that sense, in retrospect maybe Trump will end up with a positive legacy - his incompetence triggered such massive discontent that changed the system for the better. Wishful thinking? Possibly, but it could happen

Maybe if the media were to give them more exposure.

https://peoplesparty.org/

There are others of course, but if no one talks about them, and the narrative is always on the two parties, then people feel like they wont have a chance.
I believe those times are over and this was the catalyst to bring out a multi (more than two) party system.
  #3652  
Old 07.01.2021, 17:31
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Re: Trump or Biden .Who you got?

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the biggest problem we face at the moment, in that people can't even agree on the reality of what they've seen.
Ha! Agree. It's called cognitive bias.
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  #3653  
Old 07.01.2021, 17:32
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Re: Trump or Biden .Who you got?

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Maybe if the media were to give them more exposure.

https://peoplesparty.org/

I just checked their website out of curiosity. Someone needs to help them with the marketing. The slogan "WE ARE BUILDING A PARTY THAT WORKS FOR US" is already taken: both the Red and the Blue parties work for themselves, the new kids on the block need to come up with something new

But seriously, this wont happen without a system overhaul. A new party will never be able to make a dent with the current system.
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  #3654  
Old 07.01.2021, 17:42
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At 0.04 on the video you can clearly see a Pride flag. How confused was this poor person?!
As it says in the comments under the video: some Boys are more Proud than others.
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  #3655  
Old 07.01.2021, 17:45
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Re: Trump or Biden .Who you got?

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Maybe if the media were to give them more exposure.

https://peoplesparty.org/

There are others of course, but if no one talks about them, and the narrative is always on the two parties, then people feel like they wont have a chance.
I believe those times are over and this was the catalyst to bring out a multi (more than two) party system.
Socially conservative socialists. You've managed to find someone even worse than the two main parties

I'd vote for the Libertarian Party. Closest thing to an actual 3rd party in any case. 4.5 million votes in 2016 is a decent chunk.
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  #3656  
Old 07.01.2021, 18:02
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Re: Trump or Biden .Who you got?

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Come on man!
Insulting and ostracizing each other gets us nowhere.
It doesnt matter if you listen to Bob Dylan or 2Pac, the calls for revolution have been there for decades now and across all spectrums. Congress has an 18% approval rating which means 82% of Americans feel disenfranchised and without a party that represents them. 82%
People are losing their houses and the shirts off of their backs as congress hands out corporate bailouts on a silver platter but can't even agree on giving the people leftover scraps without adding a ton of pork to it. People are hurting and they need help now! This anger is not going away any time soon. We can use this opportunity and energy to come together and create something beautiful like a third or even fourth party. Or we can follow the media driven narrative and continue to let it distract and divide us. These events and protests (from both sides) over the last year goes far beyond Trump or Biden.
I didn't really understand much of your post, to be honest, but in particular, the bit about not agreeing on giving people leftover scraps without adding a ton of pork. That sounds pretty generous to me. Unless they're Jewish, or Muslim. Is this about minority religions?
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So your're ok with starving children?
California Dreamer just mentioned that it'll be OK, everyone's going to get lots of pork.
  #3657  
Old 07.01.2021, 18:05
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Re: Trump or Biden .Who you got?

BREAKING: Facebook & Instagram will block President Trump's accounts "indefinitely and for at least the next two weeks until the peaceful transition of power is complete," CEO Zuckerberg says http://cnbc.com/id/106820697


twitter has been restored to him but still wow.
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  #3658  
Old 07.01.2021, 18:11
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Re: Trump or Biden .Who you got?

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BREAKING: Facebook & Instagram will block President Trump's accounts "indefinitely and for at least the next two weeks until the peaceful transition of power is complete," CEO Zuckerberg says http://cnbc.com/id/106820697


twitter has been restored to him but still wow.
It's extraordinary that anyone is still giving this cretin a platform. He's proven what he's willing to do to keep power. I hope he backs down now but he has 13 days to escalate.
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  #3659  
Old 07.01.2021, 18:23
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Re: Trump or Biden .Who you got?

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Yes, I know that, everything isn't black and white you know. You make it sound like I'm denying there was a protest yesterday
LOL... I haven't read much of this thread today since TC would certainly exhaust me, but I do love how this attack was only a "protest" to him, when all of the BLM protests were called "riots" due to the action of a few.

The hypocrisy is mind blowing, how can someone be so delusional? They violently attacked the government, the president committed treason multiple times - and yet you still hold on to the constitution (2nd amendment) like it is the Bible.

I give up.
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  #3660  
Old 07.01.2021, 18:40
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Re: Trump or Biden .Who you got?

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I didn't really understand much of your post, to be honest, but in particular, the bit about not agreeing on giving people leftover scraps without adding a ton of pork. That sounds pretty generous to me. Unless they're Jewish, or Muslim. Is this about minority religions?

California Dreamer just mentioned that it'll be OK, everyone's going to get lots of pork.
It comes from the term pork barrel politics. Meaning adding unrelated bills or diverting the funding away from the main purpose of the bill or legislation.
For example: Calling it a relief stimulus for the American people, but the people only get 10 cents for every dollar because the other 90 cents goes somewhere else (payouts, pockets of the donor class, etc). That 90 cents is called pork and people have had enough of it. We're ready to go vegan you know.
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