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View Poll Results: Who will win the US election?
Trump/Pence 11 52.38%
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  #3741  
Old 08.01.2021, 14:30
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Re: Trump or Biden .Who you got?

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Agree 100% with every word you said. Despicable and unjustifiable. But not a coup. That would required thousands of armed men with heavy firepower, tons on tanks and sh!t (which the US armed forces would easily crush, anyhow). This was a joke*...like komsomolez said, worth of the man with the squirrel on his head. This is the best he can do. But I insist I don't think this qualifies as a coup.

* I don't want to be insensitive to the policeman who passed away from his injuries, I mean "joke" metaphorically.
The definition of coup is:

"a sudden, violent, and illegal seizure of power from a government."

Pretty sure that a sitting president inciting a group of thousands of people to storm a capital building full of politicians ratifying a new president, in order to attempt to change a democratic result result to one in this favour and thus retain power, fits the description of an "attempted coup".

Of course it was a pathetic and childish attempt at a coup and doomed to fail... but the intent was there.
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  #3742  
Old 08.01.2021, 14:35
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Re: Trump or Biden .Who you got?

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J'adore...

American grown ups know how to have fun with dressing up. Looks like they were making up for verbotten Halloween, last year.
No. Storming the Capitol, whether dressed up or not, was not a fun activity. It is a mockery to put it in that context.

Storming the Capitol was a serious breach of security and of the law.

It was an attack, in parts physically violent, on principles that many Americans hold to be central to their belief and identity and on a physical place many see as sacred or at least to be respected.

This is not a matter of having "fun with dressing up", nor of "making up for Halloween". And 5 people died.

Last edited by doropfiz; 09.01.2021 at 01:56. Reason: typo
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  #3743  
Old 08.01.2021, 14:37
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Re: Trump or Biden .Who you got?

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"a sudden, violent, and illegal seizure of power from a government."
But I don't think anyone in their right mind seriously thought that occupying the Capitol equated to seizing power. I think they had every intention of violently disrupting a congress session, NOT seizing power.
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  #3744  
Old 08.01.2021, 14:39
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Re: Trump or Biden .Who you got?

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The definition of coup is:

"a sudden, violent, and illegal seizure of power from a government."

Pretty sure that a sitting president inciting a group of thousands of people to storm a capital building full of politicians ratifying a new president, in order to attempt to change a democratic result result to one in this favour and thus retain power, fits the description of an "attempted coup".

Of course it was a pathetic and childish attempt and doomed to fail... but the intent was there.
I really don't think that even this bunch with their formidable arsenal of zip ties and a pipe bomb in their wildest dreams, actually thought they would "seize power" ..

Disrupt a meeting that was taking place - yes
Do some vandalism - yes
Make a point - yes
Get on TV (again) - hell absolutely yes

But I doubt if they intended to seize power. Even if they'd actually entered and secured themselves inside, even with hostages, they wouldn't have seized anything other than the building and a death sentence.
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  #3745  
Old 08.01.2021, 14:42
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Re: Trump or Biden .Who you got?

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But I don't think anyone in their right mind seriously thought that occupying the Capitol equated to seizing power. I think they had every intention of violently disrupting a congress session, NOT seizing power.
I guess this is point. Not so different to a riot after a football win, a few hours of unrest and then everyone goes home for the next TV show. Sadly this time, there are 2 violent deaths and 3 apparent medical conditions deaths.
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  #3746  
Old 08.01.2021, 14:42
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Re: Trump or Biden .Who you got?

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The definition of coup is:

"a sudden, violent, and illegal seizure of power from a government.".
So - like a Mod Coup. Just bigger.

What's a zip tie?
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  #3747  
Old 08.01.2021, 14:44
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Re: Trump or Biden .Who you got?

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But I don't think anyone in their right mind seriously thought that occupying the Capitol equated to seizing power. I think they had every intention of violently disrupting a congress session, NOT seizing power.
CNN called it a coup, hence die-hard Dems call it a coup. Of course, it wasn't. As much as we can debate the semantics here, the important thing is that whatever it was, it's now over, Dems won Georgia and Mr. Orange will leave in two weeks and hopefully, he'll wear an Orange suit before year end
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  #3748  
Old 08.01.2021, 14:47
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Re: Trump or Biden .Who you got?

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What's a zip tie?
One use is to tie cables together.. Neatly

The other
Or if you prefer
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  #3749  
Old 08.01.2021, 15:09
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Re: Trump or Biden .Who you got?

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Fully agree. But your analysis is way too sophisticated One Just needs to look at the guy with the dead squirrel on his head to understand this was not a coup.


Tom
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  #3750  
Old 08.01.2021, 15:12
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Re: Trump or Biden .Who you got?

I doubt it was an attempt at a coup, I think it was much more subtle attempt than that. I see a small group being given the task of seizing and destroying the electoral college votes.

Fortunately some hero managed to secure them.

Without the ballots Biden could not have been certified.
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  #3751  
Old 08.01.2021, 15:16
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Re: Trump or Biden .Who you got?

So you mean that's not the publicity photo for the Village People come-back tour then?

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  #3752  
Old 08.01.2021, 15:38
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Re: Trump or Biden .Who you got?

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Tom
Maybe American people got bored with lockdown, they missed New Year’s party and all that. Therefore they decided to throw their own disrupt democracy kinda carnival in capitol. OMG
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  #3753  
Old 08.01.2021, 15:47
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Re: Trump or Biden .Who you got?

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I doubt it was an attempt at a coup, I think it was much more subtle attempt than that. I see a small group being given the task of seizing and destroying the electoral college votes.

Fortunately some hero managed to secure them.

Without the ballots Biden could not have been certified.
No backup, no store documentation? Or you mean "it would have been delayed" ?
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  #3754  
Old 08.01.2021, 15:48
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Re: Trump or Biden .Who you got?

Christ. This thread. Attempts at down playing a very serious attack on American democracy. Why? Because it doesn't personally affect you? For shame.

They wanted to stop the conformation of Biden as president.
They were geared up for violence.

MC zip ties can be used as restraints in lieu of hand cuffs.

As for the comments defending TC. Ugh.
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  #3755  
Old 08.01.2021, 16:07
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Re: Trump or Biden .Who you got?

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I doubt it was an attempt at a coup, I think it was much more subtle attempt than that. I see a small group being given the task of seizing and destroying the electoral college votes.

Fortunately some hero managed to secure them.

Without the ballots Biden could not have been certified.
Not the word that leaps to my mind.
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  #3756  
Old 08.01.2021, 16:10
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Re: Trump or Biden .Who you got?

Capitol police chief, House and Senate Seargent at arms all gone, the real villain Trump not yet.
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  #3757  
Old 08.01.2021, 16:11
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Re: Trump or Biden .Who you got?

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I doubt it was an attempt at a coup, I think it was much more subtle attempt than that. I see a small group being given the task of seizing and destroying the electoral college votes.

Fortunately some hero managed to secure them.

Without the ballots Biden could not have been certified.
There are several copies of the electoral college votes, so, no problem certifying. I watched part of the state verification process and I think they talked about 5 or 6 copies. When the congress went into hiding, it’s likely the votes went with them.

I think a lot congressional peeps were pretty frightened, and the presence of zip ties suggested to them the possibility of hostage taking.

Call it what you want, coup, riot, terrorism....it doesn’t matter. ..it was a mob of individuals, some of whom were incited to commit illegal acts. People in a mob don’t act very clearly and their actions can be amplified by each other. I believe it was a potentially dangerous mob.

Oh, and the guy with the Buffalo horns is some sort of qanon shaman.
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  #3758  
Old 08.01.2021, 16:11
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Re: Trump or Biden .Who you got?

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There are only a few Trump-supporters in my family, and what they each lack in intelligence, they try to compensate for with their egos. They are all openly racist, think that America is superior to the rest of the world and have that "My pickup truck is bigger than yours, therefore I'm better than you" type of mentality.
Where I come from it's the gun rack.

To offer some perspective into how Trump's fans think, here's something a friend shared on social media. I know a lot of people dismiss Trumpers as stupid and crazy. Still, if Democrats and Republicans fail to at least try and understand this mentality, nothing is going to improve or change. Dismissing it as nutty and crazy isn't going to move the country forward.

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Trump said a LOT of crazy stuff in his tweets the past four years... Let's examine them:
He said: My offices are bugged. He was right.
He said: The FBI, CIA, DOJ and the Obama administration were plotting against him. He was right.
He said: The media both liberal and social are liars . He labeled them FAKE NEWS. He was right.
He said: Russian collision was a hoax. He was right.
He said: He could bring manufacturing back. He was right.
He said: If we build a wall and manage immigration it will create jobs. He was right.
He said: Joe and Hunter got rich off of shady corrupt deals with the Ukraine and China. He was right.
He said: new trade deals would be better for the people. He was right.
He said: Moving the embassy to Jerusalem would be the right decision. He was right
He said: getting us out of un-winnable wars would create peace. He was right.
He said the Clintons were corrupt. He was right. And still are!
He said: locking up minority’s for decades for non violent offenses was wrong so he changed it. He was right.
He said: Jobs are worth way more than welfare so he gave the people jobs.
He was right.
He said: our government is filled with corrupt people and he will fight to drain the swamp and right the wrongs. He is right.
President Trump has been right on just about everything he said. So when he says the election was rigged I’ll bet my life on him being right. 74 million strong Sir, we got your back.
#trumpismypresident #usa
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  #3759  
Old 08.01.2021, 16:16
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Re: Trump or Biden .Who you got?

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As for the comments defending TC. Ugh.
As I see I'm the only one who can be interpreted to be "defending" Tony, I didn't expect I would have to explain myself when trying to keep a discussion civil. A good discussion doesn't need to resort to ad hominem. It not only escalates too easily in an online forum, but it degrades the quality of the conversation and the value of the thread. Not to mention it completely derails the topic. I prefer to focus on the event itself, and not spend 4 pages browsing whodunnit posts.

Tony, as much as any one of us, is entitled to his opinion without any of us calling him names. I fundamentally disagree with just about every single opinion he has shared here, but I don't need to attack his integrity or his values because of that. We can easily stick to the letter of what we write, and at one point simply agree to disagree. Dragging back-and-forth accusations for pages on is exactly that...a drag.

And that is why I explained how I interpreted his posts, which can be easily construed as defending him.
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  #3760  
Old 08.01.2021, 16:21
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Re: Trump or Biden .Who you got?

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As I see I'm the only one who can be interpreted to be "defending" Tony, I didn't expect I would have to explain myself when trying to keep a discussion civil. A good discussion doesn't need to resort to ad hominem. It not only escalates too easily in an online forum, but it degrades the quality of the conversation and the value of the thread. .
Hmm, I'll just pretend I didn't read your post aimed at California Dreamer....
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