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  #3801  
Old 08.01.2021, 19:59
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Re: Trump or Biden .Who you got?

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This is IMHO the wrong move. Pelosi and the Blue leadership is driven by a personal agenda - to prove they can impeach him as they already failed once. This is the wrong thing to do from the Dem perspective, but also the wrong thing for the US. I firmly believe that turning Trump into a martyr will give more fuel and more energy for his sycophantic fans.

Moreover, Mitch McConnell ain't stupid. Allowing this to pass will "prove" his was wrong before and the Republicans know that they will have very tough 4 years to go, helping the Dems now is stupid from their perspective.

Let him fall down, foaming and fuming, make it as public as possible and then, sometime in spring drag him into the deepest tax audit ever and then jail him before year end.
Yeah, but I guess I was thinking that part of its purpose (an impeachment) is that it would prevent Trump from being allowed to ever take office again (to run in 2024).

I think Pelosi and some others are still really freaked out right now -- and rightly so. And I think the only reason Trump released that video, finally admitting that the riots were wrong and basically conceding, is because he fears being removed from office via the 25th Amendment otherwise. But it's true that if he was removed from office, he would play the victim about it (because that's what he does) and try to turn himself into a martyr in the minds of his followers.
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  #3802  
Old 08.01.2021, 20:04
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Re: Trump or Biden .Who you got?

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This is IMHO the wrong move. Pelosi and the Blue leadership is driven by a personal agenda - to prove they can impeach him as they already failed once. This is the wrong thing to do from the Dem perspective, but also the wrong thing for the US. I firmly believe that turning Trump into a martyr will give more fuel and more energy for his sycophantic fans.

Moreover, Mitch McConnell ain't stupid. Allowing this to pass will "prove" his was wrong before and the Republicans know that they will have very tough 4 years to go, helping the Dems now is stupid from their perspective.

Let him fall down, foaming and fuming, make it as public as possible and then, sometime in spring drag him into the deepest tax audit ever and then jail him before year end.
Makes sense, the democrats won big and can afford to show magnanimity in victory. If he had a year left then I would say 'impeach the bastard' but he has little more than a working week so just let him sink in his own bile. He already looked pretty chastened this morning, I doubt he will want to rock any more boats.

I hope I'm not wrong
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  #3803  
Old 08.01.2021, 20:04
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Re: Trump or Biden .Who you got?

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Yeah, but I guess I was thinking that part of its purpose (an impeachment) is that it would prevent Trump from being allowed to ever take office again (to run in 2024).
Technically, he was already impeached, but not removed from office. Impeachment is done by the house (doable, dems control it) but removal is then voted again, needing 2/3 majority, in the senate and this won't happen because a) there's no time b) McConnell won't let it. It's a complete waste of energy with absolutely no upside neither for the Dems, nor for the US.
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  #3804  
Old 08.01.2021, 20:06
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Re: Trump or Biden .Who you got?

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Technically, he was already impeached, but not removed from office. Impeachment is done by the house (doable, dems control it) but removal is then voted again, needing 2/3 majority, in the senate and this won't happen because a) there's no time b) McConnell won't let it. It's a complete waste of energy with absolutely no upside neither for the Dems, nor for the US.
Yeah, I know. But what I meant was if he were impeached and then voted out by the Senate. I think many more Republicans Senators would be willing to vote him out this time around, but with such little time left before the inauguration, I highly doubt it could get to the Senate vote in time, anyways.

Apparently, even Biden has said that he doesn't want him to be impeached because he fears that will just cause even more divisiveness.
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  #3805  
Old 08.01.2021, 20:09
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Re: Trump or Biden .Who you got?

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Technically, he was already impeached, but not removed from office. Impeachment is done by the house (doable, dems control it) but removal is then voted again, needing 2/3 majority, in the senate and this won't happen because a) there's no time b) McConnell won't let it. It's a complete waste of energy with absolutely no upside neither for the Dems, nor for the US.
I think it would deteriorate things even more. More protests. I don't think US politics need any grandstanding nor riots, after the last presidential term.
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  #3806  
Old 08.01.2021, 20:09
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Re: Trump or Biden .Who you got?

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Yeah, but I guess I was thinking that part of its purpose (an impeachment) is that it would prevent Trump from being allowed to ever take office again (to run in 2024).
Which could actually tempt some Republicans who have their eyes on 2024 to remove the fool. I actually think the sentiment in the Senate could be in favour of removal as it allows leaving the sinking ship while claiming it is a vote of conscience.
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  #3807  
Old 08.01.2021, 20:11
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Re: Trump or Biden .Who you got?

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Which could actually tempt some Republicans who have their eyes on 2024 to remove the fool. I actually think the sentiment in the Senate could be in favour of removal as it allows leaving the sinking ship while claiming it is a vote of conscience.
It wont happen because the calculus of the Reps is "we didn't let it happen last time, if we do let it happen now we will show we didn't have the foresight, while the Dems were right". This is political suicide, McConnel is a sharp cookie.
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  #3808  
Old 08.01.2021, 20:18
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Re: Trump or Biden .Who you got?

I have to admit, I was actually rather impressed by McConnell's speech the other day and his denial of election fraud. And that is one thing I never thought I'd say about Mitch McConnell.

With Pelosi, I think that she (and probably many other Dems) are in fear of Trump running again in 2024. He implied that he would, with the way he ended his last video. So they probably see an impeachment and removal from office as the only way to prevent that from being possible. And of course, they're probably also aware that they'd have a better shot right now with the Senate voting him out than they did a year ago.
  #3809  
Old 08.01.2021, 20:19
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Re: Trump or Biden .Who you got?

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It wont happen because the calculus of the Reps is "we didn't let it happen last time, if we do let it happen now we will show we didn't have the foresight, while the Dems were right". This is political suicide, McConnel is a sharp cookie.
Quite possible. But suicide or not, McConnell will have his eyes on 2022 already and I doubt it will matter then whether Trump was removed by the Senate. Trump will play the "everybody in the establishment turned on me (and you)" in any case.

But yes, bigger fish to fry for Biden than this.
  #3810  
Old 08.01.2021, 20:23
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Re: Trump or Biden .Who you got?

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Which could actually tempt some Republicans who have their eyes on 2024 to remove the fool. I actually think the sentiment in the Senate could be in favour of removal as it allows leaving the sinking ship while claiming it is a vote of conscience.
This. Exactly. (Sorry, I had forgot to include the quote in my post above).

Any member of the GOP must know that they're not going to stand a chance if Trump runs in 2024. So that will not only hinder their chances to take office but also run the risk of more people voting against Trump and voting blue again.
  #3811  
Old 08.01.2021, 20:28
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Re: Trump or Biden .Who you got?

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It'll be interesting to see why the police shot one of them dead.
There is a video now. A stupid way to die.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/inves...video-capitol/
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  #3812  
Old 08.01.2021, 20:34
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Re: Trump or Biden .Who you got?

Well, one of the peaceful guys accidently tasered himself in the goolies and had a heart attack and died.
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  #3813  
Old 08.01.2021, 20:42
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Re: Trump or Biden .Who you got?

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There is a video now. A stupid way to die.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/inves...video-capitol/
It won't let me view it (requires a subscription). But I was finally able to find it here, showing her being shot while trying to get into the main Congress room and other protesters trying to help her afterward (second video):

https://www.tmz.com/2021/01/07/ashli...-fatally-shot/

It's difficult to watch. But I don't know what these people thought was going to happen. I guess they were already delusional in the first place. It's like they were all 'high' on adrenaline, anger and some warped sense of entitlement.

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Well, one of the peaceful guys accidently tasered himself in the goolies and had a heart attack and died.
Is that seriously how the police officer died??? I was wondering.. because every article I found about it was not specifying how he had died exactly.
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  #3814  
Old 08.01.2021, 20:48
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Re: Trump or Biden .Who you got?

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Is that seriously how the police officer died??? I was wondering.. because every article I found about it was not specifying how he had died exactly.
The cop was bludgeoned with a fire extinguisher by a peaceful protester.
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  #3815  
Old 08.01.2021, 20:50
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Re: Trump or Biden .Who you got?

No, not the policeman- who, as said above ...

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/us-new...-died-23282491
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  #3816  
Old 08.01.2021, 20:50
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Re: Trump or Biden .Who you got?

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The cop was bludgeoned with a fire extinguisher by a peaceful protester.
Thanks.

  #3817  
Old 08.01.2021, 20:52
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Re: Trump or Biden .Who you got?

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No, not the policeman- who, as said above ...

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/us-new...-died-23282491
And thank you as well... I was curious how the others had died.

That guy posing proudly with his guns, though. "Recent comments of Mr Greeson's include: "Let's take this country BACK! Load your guns and take to the s streets. "Let's give them a war... Democrats don't have guns... we do.. bring your stick, I'm bringing my guns."

Well, that's one less violent idiot in the world.
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  #3818  
Old 08.01.2021, 21:15
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Re: Trump or Biden .Who you got?

The Late Show with Stephen Colbert is worth a watch. A lot of the "protesters" named themselves on camera. Utter twonks.
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  #3819  
Old 08.01.2021, 21:16
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Re: Trump or Biden .Who you got?

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The Late Show with Stephen Colbert is worth a watch. A lot of the "protesters" named themselves on camera. Utter twonks.
I'm glad they went on camera. It makes prosecution easier.
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  #3820  
Old 08.01.2021, 21:45
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Re: Trump or Biden .Who you got?

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Not familiar with the expression. What do you mean?
I meant it was quite a lot of words to essentially tell me and some others that we should be quiet.

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I think it certainly can. I don't think this is the case here.

...

In my defense, that user is a scientific illiterate who is also extremely arrogant and condescending with his conspiracy-theory beliefs, making him particularly annoying. Crappy defense, but that's my excuse.
But this is your opinion. Just as my view is mine. You've done here that which you said others should not. No?

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This thread and this forum in general can do well if we stop "groaning" and "thanking" specific people and instead focus on what is being said. There are a few points which Tony Clifton made here and with which I have agreed too. He has also made others with which I have disagreed. This is not a reason to dismiss the person.

Do the following exercise: try to read an opinion first and only THEN look at the name of the poster. I've been doing this for a while and it's quite revealing.

Just to be clear I find it ridiculous to call this poor Cosplay a coup. At the same time I also find it ridiculous to downplay the situation. In the end, the naming convention doesn't really matter as whatever we call it, it won't change the nature of the fact would it? And it's now over anyway

Oh i do. I play guess the poster. I'm often right.

You see? Terms like "cosplay" aim to defang this hideous thing and i don't understand why some folk on here are determined to attempt to do so. It's as if we watched different things. And no, it's not over.

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I don't agree with your statements, which although partly true are misleading. Poverty is closely correlated to unemployment, which has been on a steep downward slope for over 10 years.



This is NOT Trump, this is a long trend.

Regarding inequality, it depends on how you measure it. Economically this is probably not the case. Socially speaking, Obama issued laws to protect borrowers of payday loans, which Trump has . Trump has also increased inequality by blocking transgender people from federally funded single-sex or sex-segregated homeless shelters (in May 2019), by blocking access to birth control, limiting SNAP food stamps (the Republicans aim at slashing nearly 680'000 people off the SNAP program), not to mention the healthcare fiasco. I really think Trump if anything has increased inequality.
This.


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This. Thanks.

The whole quasi-putch looks allowed on purpose to me and I wonder why. Is US reality TV not offering enough adrenaline? I disagree with any riots for any reason, btw. I don't find them in any way constructive.
You're likening this breach to reality TV? Do you not understand what happened? Its significance?

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You take that seriously and draw a conclusion that that person has low moral values? It is so absurd that I can't believe anyone actually believed it. I think one has to go out of one's way unbelievably to understand that as a sincere statement.

...

What is it going to be next? And why the outfits? Are they like..amaterur theater people? Re-enactment hobbyist? It looks so pointless, caricaturing and discreditting any sincere ideas (if I don't count the breaking into the WH bit). I guess I am trying to find meaning in this symbolism, all I see is only to make themselves seen heroic and visible.

But then - we have Pirates in our Parliment. With dreadlocks and all.
So you can call one opinion absurd but others may not?

I think it's a lack of sincere understanding on your part or you wouldn't say whatever this was trying to say.

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It is less tiring to consume the internet with less gullibility.
Que?


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This is IMHO the wrong move. Pelosi and the Blue leadership is driven by a personal agenda - to prove they can impeach him as they already failed once. This is the wrong thing to do from the Dem perspective, but also the wrong thing for the US. I firmly believe that turning Trump into a martyr will give more fuel and more energy for his sycophantic fans.

Moreover, Mitch McConnell ain't stupid. Allowing this to pass will "prove" his was wrong before and the Republicans know that they will have very tough 4 years to go, helping the Dems now is stupid from their perspective.

Let him fall down, foaming and fuming, make it as public as possible and then, sometime in spring drag him into the deepest tax audit ever and then jail him before year end.

Impeach him and then jail him. Then when he's dead, stake him and salt the ground they bury him in. Someone like him needs the belt and braces approach.

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Agree. It serves absolutely no purpose, just 10 days before the end of his term. It will look to the general audience as a cheap revenge move.
I disagree. It sends a very firm message to anyone else thinking his act is a good one to follow.

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Makes sense, the democrats won big and can afford to show magnanimity in victory. If he had a year left then I would say 'impeach the bastard' but he has little more than a working week so just let him sink in his own bile. He already looked pretty chastened this morning, I doubt he will want to rock any more boats.

I hope I'm not wrong

They've likened that last video to that of a hostage being forced to read a statement. He didn't mean a word of it I'm sure.
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