Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Off-Topic > Off-Topic > International affairs/politics  
View Poll Results: Who will win the US election?
Trump/Pence 11 52.38%
Biden/Harris 10 47.62%
Voters: 21. You may not vote on this poll

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #4021  
Old 13.01.2021, 18:08
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Zurich
Posts: 12,816
Groaned at 1,077 Times in 741 Posts
Thanked 18,299 Times in 7,114 Posts
Chuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Trump or Biden .Who you got?

Quote:
View Post
I've no more expertise than you pretend to. From a quick scan of articles it appears different experts see it differently.

Googled coup vs riot. The top few articles, I've no idea the leanings of the below.

QZ - Biden calls it an insurrection, others call it a coup, nobody agrees.
Washington Post - Insurrection not a coup
NYT- Coup attempt
FP - Not a coup but looks like one.

I'm guessing coup sounds cooler than insurrection.
I don't pretend to have any expertise, I am not a political correspondent, I just read the evidence available to me and apply common sense with my conclusions. The majority of publications are calling it an attempted coup because the (very desperate and clumsy) intent was to influence an election result. However, insurrection also works if it leads to most tangible charges and arrests.
The following 2 users would like to thank Chuff for this useful post:
  #4022  
Old 13.01.2021, 18:32
FrankZappa's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: France, near Geneva
Posts: 866
Groaned at 8 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 2,770 Times in 724 Posts
FrankZappa has a reputation beyond reputeFrankZappa has a reputation beyond reputeFrankZappa has a reputation beyond reputeFrankZappa has a reputation beyond reputeFrankZappa has a reputation beyond reputeFrankZappa has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Trump or Biden .Who you got?

There were some serious terrorists involved in the attack on the Capitol. The white supremacist Proud Boys abandoned their usual distinctive dress and were careful to keep a low profile whilst going about their business.

ttps://www.vice.com/en/article/epdmv...at-the-capitol
The following 6 users would like to thank FrankZappa for this useful post:
  #4023  
Old 13.01.2021, 18:35
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: In your head
Posts: 266
Groaned at 29 Times in 26 Posts
Thanked 881 Times in 313 Posts
RufusB has a reputation beyond reputeRufusB has a reputation beyond reputeRufusB has a reputation beyond reputeRufusB has a reputation beyond reputeRufusB has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Trump or Biden .Who you got?

Quote:
View Post

They bear some striking resemblances to their cult leader in their ability to change the story and play the victim and in their refusal to acknowledge any accountability for their own behavior.

This. This attitudes is rife everywhere on social media (and often IRL too).

Quote:
View Post
There were some serious terrorists involved in the attack on the Capitol. The white supremacist Proud Boys abandoned their usual distinctive dress and were careful to keep a low profile whilst going about their business.

ttps://www.vice.com/en/article/epdmv...at-the-capitol

This is one of the scariest things IMO: the relatively quiet way this all happened.
The following 2 users would like to thank RufusB for this useful post:
  #4024  
Old 13.01.2021, 20:28
gaburko's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: BL
Posts: 996
Groaned at 158 Times in 106 Posts
Thanked 2,631 Times in 973 Posts
gaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Trump or Biden .Who you got?

Quote:
View Post
I just read the evidence available to me...
Which is clearly more than the evidence available to the FBI, which has been extremely careful in its word choice and hasn't called it a coup. Better find better sources
The following 2 users would like to thank gaburko for this useful post:
  #4025  
Old 13.01.2021, 20:54
3Wishes's Avatar
Moderately Amused
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Bern area
Posts: 10,914
Groaned at 82 Times in 78 Posts
Thanked 18,284 Times in 8,171 Posts
3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Trump or Biden .Who you got?

Quote:
View Post
I think there's a bit of a confusion here. McConnell will not vote in the impeachment vote in the House. He's not there, he's in Congress.
Emphasis mine, because it's easy to get muddled. The Senate and the House of Representatives are the two houses of the U.S. Congress.

Those serving in the Senate are always called senators. Those serving in the House are called either representatives or congressmen/women. But all of them are in Congress, regardless of which house.

Quote:
View Post
I think a great deal of them had thought it out. Isn't the general consensus that they were hunting for Pence and McDonnell?
Pence and Pelosi. McConnell had not yet given any indication he would turn on Trump. Had he done so, he'd have had a noose reserved outside too.
The following 7 users would like to thank 3Wishes for this useful post:
  #4026  
Old 13.01.2021, 20:59
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 30,142
Groaned at 2,147 Times in 1,602 Posts
Thanked 36,153 Times in 17,141 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Trump or Biden .Who you got?

Quote:
View Post
It wasn’t a coup, because it didn’t succeed. It was a coup attempt though because they wanted to replace a dully elected president with a loser.
Umm, the current duly elected president is Trump, so who exactly is the loser they wish to replace him with?

Tom
This user would like to thank st2lemans for this useful post:
This user groans at st2lemans for this post:
  #4027  
Old 13.01.2021, 21:07
gaburko's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: BL
Posts: 996
Groaned at 158 Times in 106 Posts
Thanked 2,631 Times in 973 Posts
gaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Trump or Biden .Who you got?

Quote:
View Post
Emphasis mine, because it's easy to get muddled. The Senate and the House of Representatives are the two houses of the U.S. Congress.
Fair, my typo. However, my point is still valid: McConnell will not be voting today in the House of Representatives whether to impeach Trump as he is a member of the Senate.

The much more interesting question is whether the Senate can hold a vote to remove Trump from office AFTER his terms expires, potentially opening the door to bar him from running again. Legal scholars don't seem to have a clear view here. If this is Pelosi's game, it's a bit of a long shot and will be dragging the whole apparatus of the legislature well into Biden's term into a potentially useless inflammatory game.

A comprehensive tax audit is so much cleaner and more elegant
This user would like to thank gaburko for this useful post:
  #4028  
Old 13.01.2021, 21:20
3Wishes's Avatar
Moderately Amused
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Bern area
Posts: 10,914
Groaned at 82 Times in 78 Posts
Thanked 18,284 Times in 8,171 Posts
3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Trump or Biden .Who you got?

Quote:
View Post
Fair, my typo. However, my point is still valid: McConnell will not be voting today in the House of Representatives whether to impeach Trump as he is a member of the Senate.

The much more interesting question is whether the Senate can hold a vote to remove Trump from office AFTER his terms expires, potentially opening the door to bar him from running again. Legal scholars don't seem to have a clear view here. If this is Pelosi's game, it's a bit of a long shot and will be dragging the whole apparatus of the legislature well into Biden's term into a potentially useless inflammatory game.

A comprehensive tax audit is so much cleaner and more elegant
It's definitely uncharted territory. No president has been impeached and removed from office. No president has been impeached twice. Taxes seem like the better way to go. It's how they got Capone, isn't it?
This user would like to thank 3Wishes for this useful post:
  #4029  
Old 13.01.2021, 21:28
gaburko's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: BL
Posts: 996
Groaned at 158 Times in 106 Posts
Thanked 2,631 Times in 973 Posts
gaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond reputegaburko has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Trump or Biden .Who you got?

Quote:
View Post
It's definitely uncharted territory. No president has been impeached and removed from office. No president has been impeached twice. Taxes seem like the better way to go. It's how they got Capone, isn't it?
Yes. On top, as an added benefit, this will make really public his tax records which clearly show he paid less taxes than the vast majority of the sycophantic fans that stormed the Capitol. This will clearly astonish most of them who are not aware of the fact (as it was published in NY Times first if I am not mistaken)

As the cherry on the cake, the fact that quite a few tens of millions of his debt are owned by Russians banks could be dragged into the tax audit without really providing anything actionable, but just to make it really public that he owes money to state controlled Russian banks
  #4030  
Old 13.01.2021, 21:32
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 9,845
Groaned at 434 Times in 375 Posts
Thanked 18,177 Times in 9,668 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Trump or Biden .Who you got?

Quote:
View Post
It's definitely uncharted territory. No president has been impeached and removed from office. No president has been impeached twice. Taxes seem like the better way to go. It's how they got Capone, isn't it?
No requirement for "either, or", he could be both impeached and benefit from a tax investigation.
The following 3 users would like to thank marton for this useful post:
  #4031  
Old 13.01.2021, 21:34
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Up there over the fog
Posts: 1,410
Groaned at 172 Times in 138 Posts
Thanked 1,678 Times in 826 Posts
JackieH has a reputation beyond reputeJackieH has a reputation beyond reputeJackieH has a reputation beyond reputeJackieH has a reputation beyond reputeJackieH has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Trump or Biden .Who you got?

No wonder Deutsche Bank stated today they will not have any dealings with Trump in future (having sold the debts on to Russians).
  #4032  
Old 13.01.2021, 21:42
MusicChick's Avatar
modified, reprogrammed and doctored²
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: La Cote
Posts: 16,330
Groaned at 348 Times in 240 Posts
Thanked 18,827 Times in 9,807 Posts
MusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Trump or Biden .Who you got?

Quote:
View Post
Umm, the current duly elected president is Trump, so who exactly is the loser they wish to replace him with?

Tom
Did people get stuff reversed? Because they fear that 78yr old Trump will run again? That's a potent fear, like that's supposed to apease the 70mil supporters...Who do they consider these supporters to be, to remove Trump a few days before end, to prevent him running, to close his channels he talked to his people through..They think they will be ok with all that? Nobody talked to them before, through Twitter nor other way. They will not be happy with these quick maneuvres. 70mil voters aren't Chubaka whackos or confused folk coz "they did not know any better" as people here often say, patronizingly. This time now is too critical for treating the choice of millions of people as a 'lapse of reason', which removing their choice definitely comes across like. If they go ahead with this, they lost their next elections already. Vendetta is not a good political campaign. Biden gotta stop this or he'll face ton of problems, it's not fair to him.
__________________
"L'homme ne peut pas remplacer son coeur avec sa tete, ni sa tete avec ses mains." J.H. Pestalozzi

“The only difference between a rut and a grave is a matter of depth.” S.P. Cadman

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." A. Einstein

Last edited by MusicChick; 13.01.2021 at 21:58.
  #4033  
Old 13.01.2021, 22:01
3Wishes's Avatar
Moderately Amused
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Bern area
Posts: 10,914
Groaned at 82 Times in 78 Posts
Thanked 18,284 Times in 8,171 Posts
3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Trump or Biden .Who you got?

Quote:
View Post
... to remove Trump a few days before end...
So it's fine to incite a riot and violence against your fellow elected officials, and there should be no consequences, because your term of office ends in a few days anyway?

How about if he'd incited a riot before Christmas? Too close to the end of term then? How about last year when he was impeached for the first time? Only a year left anyway...
The following 7 users would like to thank 3Wishes for this useful post:
  #4034  
Old 13.01.2021, 22:15
MusicChick's Avatar
modified, reprogrammed and doctored²
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: La Cote
Posts: 16,330
Groaned at 348 Times in 240 Posts
Thanked 18,827 Times in 9,807 Posts
MusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Trump or Biden .Who you got?

Quote:
View Post
So it's fine to incite a riot and violence against your fellow elected officials..
I have no idea how fine all this is to the 70mil supporters, to be honest, hence my post.
  #4035  
Old 13.01.2021, 22:21
22 yards's Avatar
Only in moderation
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Basel-Land
Posts: 9,069
Groaned at 289 Times in 228 Posts
Thanked 19,312 Times in 7,618 Posts
22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Trump or Biden .Who you got?

Quote:
View Post
I think there's a bit of a confusion here. McConnell will not vote in the impeachment vote in the House. He's not there, he's in Congress. It's a near certainty that Trump will be impeached in the House, but this is just a statistical fact and doesn't change anything really. He will not be removed (neither by invoking the 25th amendment, nor by removal from the Senate which requires a 2/3 majority.) and there's nothing that stops him from announcing that he will run again.

The Dems don't have the time to push this through the Senate for removal and even if they did have the time I'm pretty certain McConnell would have blocked it. Pelosi is achieving nothing really, Trump will have the badge of 2nd impeachment, but so what?

Pursue the guy in courts for tax fraud, that's how they will make him irrelevant.
I think you're the one who's a bit confused. The US Congress is bicameral, i.e. it comprises both the House of Representatives and the Senate. So McConnell is indeed in Congress, as are all the Representatives and Senators. I guess you meant that he is in the Senate (currently as Leader) and therefore can't vote on impeachment, which is conducted in the House.

But then there's a second point of confusion. You state that Trump "will not be removed". You're correct that the 25th Amendment won't be invoked to remove him, because Pence (who as VP is the only person who can initiate removal under the 25th) has refused to do so. But you also stated that the Senate, requiring a two-thirds majority, would not convict Trump, that there wasn't time to hold a trial, and that McConnell (as Senate Majority Leader) would block one anyway in the time remaining. Hence your confusion, because the trial need not be held immediately and can be held after Trump's term has ended. In fact, the Democrats are talking about postponing the trial (if Trump is impeached as expected) till after Biden's first 100 days as President. And in a week's time, the Senate Majority Leader will be Chuck Schumer, a Democrat.

It's certainly not a given that the Senate would vote to convict, but it's also not a certainty that it would acquit Trump again. And yes, there is a point to pursuing a trial even after Trump's term has ended: simply making a strong statement, as well as denying him any future Federal office. Conviction in the Senate could also strengthen or open up the possibility of criminal proceedings against Trump, post-presidency.

ETA: It's taken me a while to catch up with all the posts in this thread. I see that 3 Wishes made the point about Congress already.

Last edited by 22 yards; 13.01.2021 at 22:46.
The following 2 users would like to thank 22 yards for this useful post:
  #4036  
Old 13.01.2021, 22:24
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 30,142
Groaned at 2,147 Times in 1,602 Posts
Thanked 36,153 Times in 17,141 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Trump or Biden .Who you got?

Quote:
View Post
And in a week's time, the Senate Majority Leader will be Chuck Schumer, a Democrat.
And a total POS, like Pelosi.

Compared to those two, Trump looks reasonable.

Tom
This user groans at st2lemans for this post:
  #4037  
Old 13.01.2021, 22:26
TonyClifton's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Hopefully soon to be Aargau
Posts: 1,006
Groaned at 415 Times in 245 Posts
Thanked 2,406 Times in 1,141 Posts
TonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Trump or Biden .Who you got?

Quote:
View Post
So it's fine to incite a riot and violence against your fellow elected officials, and there should be no consequences, because your term of office ends in a few days anyway?

How about if he'd incited a riot before Christmas? Too close to the end of term then? How about last year when he was impeached for the first time? Only a year left anyway...
If President Trump is impeached, then in all likelihood he will be acquitted. What sort of precedent would that set?
This user would like to thank TonyClifton for this useful post:
  #4038  
Old 13.01.2021, 22:28
22 yards's Avatar
Only in moderation
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Basel-Land
Posts: 9,069
Groaned at 289 Times in 228 Posts
Thanked 19,312 Times in 7,618 Posts
22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Trump or Biden .Who you got?

Quote:
View Post
And a total POS, like Pelosi.

Compared to those two, Trump looks reasonable.

Tom
For a non-American, you have some really strong biases and views on American politics, Tom.
The following 2 users would like to thank 22 yards for this useful post:
  #4039  
Old 13.01.2021, 22:29
MusicChick's Avatar
modified, reprogrammed and doctored²
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: La Cote
Posts: 16,330
Groaned at 348 Times in 240 Posts
Thanked 18,827 Times in 9,807 Posts
MusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Trump or Biden .Who you got?

Quote:
View Post
If President Trump is impeached, then in all likelihood he will be acquitted. What sort of precedent would that set?
Fur bikini on next fashion week.
  #4040  
Old 13.01.2021, 22:30
22 yards's Avatar
Only in moderation
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Basel-Land
Posts: 9,069
Groaned at 289 Times in 228 Posts
Thanked 19,312 Times in 7,618 Posts
22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Trump or Biden .Who you got?

Quote:
View Post
If President Trump is impeached, then in all likelihood he will be acquitted. What sort of precedent would that set?
No precedent at all. That's the way it's gone every time with an impeachment in US presidential politics. And that's exactly what impeachment is: playing politics.

Last edited by 22 yards; 13.01.2021 at 22:47. Reason: Auto-incorrect
This user would like to thank 22 yards for this useful post:
Closed Thread




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 6 (0 members and 6 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New: Trump Jokes Ardneham Jokes/funnies 15 29.01.2021 14:59
How will Trump Presidency End? Jim2007 International affairs/politics 58 11.01.2021 21:38
Will Trump get reelected robBob International affairs/politics 129 02.03.2020 22:15
The New Trump Tax Cuts ToothCentral International affairs/politics 11 05.04.2017 23:14
Will Trump be the next US President? Phil_MCR International affairs/politics 2618 14.11.2016 12:16


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 17:43.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0