She got the majority of the votes cast as opposed to the total including non voters.

One of my favourite quotes from the 'debate' was from Trump.
"Joe, I've done more in 47 months than you've done in 47 years" (or words to that effect).


I thought Biden would savage Trump on his taxes, but he couldn't even get that over the line.

Voting and and showing support are not the same. I do not follow that logic.

One of my favourite quotes from the debate was from Trump too but for different reasons than yours.....

And yet, Trump has proven (repeatedly) that he can't run a company, even one as small as the Trump Organization, let alone an entire country.

Appearances, eh?

It's not me you need to convince.

Same with Trump, he focuses on those who he wants to convince. I think the whole US election drama stems from Trump not caring for some people who are used to candidates who suck up to them and flatter them...try to buy them, make them feel important. Trump somehow must have forgotten them.

It may cost him, but who knows.

The only thing that can remotely save 2020, is Trump losing the election!

Pancakes wrote

And:
65M votes for Clinton out of 136M votes: majority (edit: sorry, this isn't a majority either. only 48%)
65M votes for Clinton out of 245M (U.S. Census Bureau Voting Age Population (Current Population Survey for November 2016): not a majority

I don't need to.convince anyone. I'm not American, I don't live in the US, I have no stake in that country.

And Biden doesn't need to convince anyone either. He's way ahead of Trump in the polls. He's not the one needing to hold rallies to try to coax people out to vote for him.

Trump is the only one desperate to get people to believe his lies. And he's failing miserably, just as he has failed in every business venture he's attempted (and just as his forebears, back to Fred Sr., who founded the organization, also failed). He's already lost 8% of his 2016 voting base, according to the latest polling, and last night's performance will almost certainly have turned more women away from him.

You really believe that? Wow.

I wish it was that simple.

If you want to be technical, 65M out of 245M was in fact the majority vote. The 109M who didn't vote don't constitute a majority vote for any one candidate.

I agree, though, that Clinton received neither a plurality of the votes, nor of all possible voters. All the more reason to introduce Australian-style compulsory voting in the US.

I think this subject has been done to death now.

You bring up a very good point, 22yards.

I am curious: How many of you who support Trump and Trumpism are US citizens or plan to return to live in the US one day?



(For the record, I am an American, will return to the US. So yeah, everything is at stake. This is no parlor game for those of us who will face real consequences.)

I'm like 22yards. Not American, ambivalent to the situation overall, it's just a curiosity. Ignore all my comments as irrelevant (most people do so anyway).
I liked Obama. I liked Bush Jnr. I liked Clinton. I like Trump.
Whether any of them were any good for America or not, I don't know, but at least they had something about them.
I have a lot of American friends and colleagues. No-one blue collar though.
From what I have garnered, they are all democrats.


Trump has not started or extended any wars, and doesn't look lke doing so.

He's ignited civil protests within his country so your last statement isn't necessarily true.

his only real achievement but he turns a blind eye to his thug mate Erdogan and his active warmongering in armenia, libya, with greece with israel, with russia and with the EU

the democrats had 4 years to plan for this and get rid of trump and they came up with biden. its not as if biden's running mate is convincing either

I'm a huge fan of Harris and would have supported her as a presidential candidate.

And that's another perfect example of how Trump can (and does) say anything and his supporters will instinctively believe him and never question the validity or truth of his statements.

Biden has been a US Senator since the 1970s and served as Vice President for eight years during an administration that lifted America out of a recession, saw a significant drop in unemployment rates and helped bring affordable healthcare to more Americans than any US President has ever done in the past. Biden wasn't one of these "sit back and do nothing" Vice Presidents. e.g. He played a significant role in healthcare reform as Vice President.

And during his 36 years as a US Senator (having won re-election SIX times), one of his major accomplishments is his introduction of the Violence Against Women Act, which reformed penalties for sexual assault and domestic abuse and was then signed into law.

And what exactly has Trump done for women? Oh, that's right. He wants to grab them by the pussy.

And what exactly has Trump accomplished during his four years as President? Oh, that's right. He's tried to take credit for an economy that Obama set in motion. He's also lied to Americans about the real threat of a virus that has, so far, killed over 200,000 Americans. And now, as an added bonus, he's encouraged white supremacists to arm themselves and "stand back and standby" during what is essentially a civil right's movement.

Biden has dedicated the majority of his life to public service. Trump has dedicated the majority of his life to taking out huge loans that he then refuses to pay back and creating the illusion that he is a successful, rich businessman when in fact, he is severely in debt and any wealth he displays is borrowed money. He also claims to love America and yet pays as little in taxes as possible, claiming that it means he's "smart," when in truth, it really only means that he is extremely greedy.

Another non American.. And one with very little interest in politics in general, I think whatever train wreck happens up there affects my day to day life very very little. I'm not a billionaire nor am I on the street.. Us little people in the middle feel few effects.

What really bugs is me is the how the left / trump haters etc can be so outspoken and must be agreed with, anything less is classed as some sort of hatred or stupidity..
Anybody who says they like Trump, for whatever reason is classed as some sort of white supremacist or just stupid.
It's become cool and trendy to hate Trump, shout BLM, defund the police etc. Anybody who either sits on the fence or questions it is wrong.

This is where the silent majority might just put Mr Orange in for another term. They are not allowed a voice other than that X on the ballot.

She was not my choice as a presidential candidate (Pete was my guy) but I had often been impressed by her as a Senator. I have become increasingly impressed with her since she joined the ticket - which I enthusiastically support. She is a good balance to Joe.

Obviously Joe was not my choice either - but as I see this country increasingly torn asunder, I have come to appreciate the middle-of-the-road selection. Disaffected Republicans will vote for Joe, where they likely could not for many of the other candidates. I only hope the progressive wing will vote blue rather than sit this one out.

Joe is a placeholder - but I think that may be what we need right now. We need someone from the middle whose primary mission is to pull us back from the brink by finding common ground again. We need a return to decency, civility, we need to return to a place where we can all agree on the fundamentals of our democracy and agree to live within that framework.

Once there, we can then go back to arguing about the details.