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View Poll Results: Who will win the US election?
Trump/Pence 11 52.38%
Biden/Harris 10 47.62%
Voters: 21. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1481  
Old 22.10.2020, 16:00
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Re: Trump or Biden .Who you got?

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They found that only one person's death in the last 25 years was linked to "antifa" or anti-fascists, and the person who died was the attacker. At the same time, over that same period, 329 murders were linked to the far-right.
This in itself is a problem.

We have seen in the recent riots that several people were actually killed either directly by rioters or as a direct result of their actions.

To somehow imply that nobody was killed by antifa in the last 25 years thus implies that the people making these statistics are putting the bar pretty high when it comes to defining an antifa killing, but much lower when it comes to a far-right killing.

Which is quite easy as neither antifa nor the far right have any formal membership, so it seems to me the people making the statistics have a lot of leeway to cherry pick, or find excuses to discount cases that would distort their picture.
  #1482  
Old 22.10.2020, 16:03
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Re: Trump or Biden .Who you got?

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Or all Germans being Prussians for Czechs (so in fact Bohemians and Moravians).
same as what I said for Bavaria.
  #1483  
Old 22.10.2020, 16:05
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Re: Trump or Biden .Who you got?

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Luckily, the vast majority of those conservatives happen to be of a certain age that within a few years they will be voting in the heavens only. The current Republican party is already having, but is going to have an even stronger, identity crisis. They are bound to lose voters, it's a simple fact of generational shift.
Let's just hope they're not programming their kids to adopt their ideologies (religious radicalism, racism, etc.).

I watched a good documentary the other night about the rise and influence of white supremacy groups in the US. I'll put a link below. It's really frightening when you realize that this kind of thinking was once "the norm" for many Americans and how easily people fall prey to this kind of delusional thinking:

Homegrown Hate: The War Among Us
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCPwrnk66pM&t=387s
  #1484  
Old 22.10.2020, 16:05
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Re: Trump or Biden .Who you got?

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This in itself is a problem.

We have seen in the recent riots that several people were actually killed either directly by rioters or as a direct result of their actions.

To somehow imply that nobody was killed by antifa in the last 25 years thus implies that the people making these statistics are putting the bar pretty high when it comes to defining an antifa killing, but much lower when it comes to a far-right killing.

Which is quite easy as neither antifa nor the far right have any formal membership, so it seems to me the people making the statistics have a lot of leeway to cherry pick, or find excuses to discount cases that would distort their picture.
Wasn't the Orlando Islamic terrorist also considered a 'right-wing terrorist'?
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  #1485  
Old 22.10.2020, 16:07
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Re: Trump or Biden .Who you got?

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We have seen in the recent riots that several people were actually killed either directly by rioters or as a direct result of their actions.
If that's a fact, then I would agree completely. A quick Google search confirms the numbers, but not necessarily linked to violent protesters, e.g.:

Forbes:
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Though curfews are lifting and protests remain predominantly peaceful, the death toll from two weeks of demonstrations over the death of George Floyd continues to creep upward, with at least 19 people—a majority of whom are black—now dead.
This one article lists who they are: one was a criminal attacking a truck, another one was a guy fighting a bar owner, unexplained shootings, some killed by police
(perhaps while commiting violent acts), etc.
  #1486  
Old 22.10.2020, 16:08
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Re: Trump or Biden .Who you got?

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Wasn't the Orlando Islamic terrorist also considered a 'right-wing terrorist'?
You're right, bad example. I'm sure it can be easily replaced by another one of the dozens that pop in the news.
  #1487  
Old 22.10.2020, 16:10
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Re: Trump or Biden .Who you got?

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This in itself is a problem.

We have seen in the recent riots that several people were actually killed either directly by rioters or as a direct result of their actions.

To somehow imply that nobody was killed by antifa thus implies that the people making these statistics are putting the bar pretty high when it comes to defining an antifa killing, but much lower when it comes to a far-right killing.

Which is quite easy as neither antifa nor the far right have any formal membership, so it seems to me the people making the statistics have a lot of leeway to cherry pick.
Actually, the far right do have formal membership
  #1488  
Old 22.10.2020, 16:13
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Re: Trump or Biden .Who you got?

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This in itself is a problem.

We have seen in the recent riots that several people were actually killed either directly by rioters or as a direct result of their actions.

To somehow imply that nobody was killed by antifa in the last 25 years thus implies that the people making these statistics are putting the bar pretty high when it comes to defining an antifa killing, but much lower when it comes to a far-right killing.

Which is quite easy as neither antifa nor the far right have any formal membership, so it seems to me the people making the statistics have a lot of leeway to cherry pick, or find excuses to discount cases that would distort their picture.
I think one of the things that makes that difficult is because someone protesting against racism isn't necessarily a member of antifa and isn't necessarily someone who condones violence or loots or burns stuff down. I'm against racism and fascism, but I'm not a member of antifa. I also think that many of those rioters have nothing to do with antifa. The right, however, has tried to put that label on them. The fact is, there are a lot of people in the US who are against racism but do not associate in any way with antifa (and who do not condone violence).

But "far right" is a term used to refer to the ideologies that are characteristic of that group. If you have a guy waiving around a flag with a swastika on it and talking about how much he hates gays because the Bible is against it or how he thinks black people are trying to take over the world, etc., I think it's pretty safe to say they're on the "far right." Or maybe they're just a racist idiot with a very small mind. I guess I really don't know how to tell the difference sometimes.
  #1489  
Old 22.10.2020, 16:38
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Re: Trump or Biden .Who you got?

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Luckily, the vast majority of those conservatives happen to be of a certain age that within a few years they will be voting in the heavens only. The current Republican party is already having, but is going to have an even stronger, identity crisis. They are bound to lose voters, it's a simple fact of generational shift.
Absolutely no idea if correct, but there are stories of people saying how their grandparents in California voted Republican all their lives, but ever since passing away have always voted Democrat.
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  #1490  
Old 22.10.2020, 16:39
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Re: Trump or Biden .Who you got?

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If you have a guy waiving around a flag with a swastika on it and talking about how much he hates gays because the Bible is against it or how he thinks black people are trying to take over the world, etc., I think it's pretty safe to say they're on the "far right."
I don't think so. Although commonly used interchangeable, left does not necessarily mean liberal, and right doesn't necessarily mean conservative. They're strongly correlated, but not causally. In my opinion, the left-right political spectrum describe the views regarding the role of government and the state, with a strong focus on economic policies. On the flipside I associate liberal-vs-convervative to the realm of society as a whole, the juxtaposition of individual, family, and society, acceptance and speed of change, role and value of traditions, role of religion, etc.

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Or maybe they're just a racist idiot with a very small mind.
Yes, that.
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  #1491  
Old 22.10.2020, 16:47
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Re: Trump or Biden .Who you got?

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same as what I said for Bavaria.
That's a drink in CZ. "Bavorák" is fernet and tonic on ice. And BMW. West => fancy.

I don't think these cantonal things exist here, people protect their heimat identity, no? I know some call German Swiss just Germans but not vice versa, we are Romands, not French.
  #1492  
Old 22.10.2020, 16:49
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Re: Trump or Biden .Who you got?

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Absolutely no idea if correct, but there are stories of people saying how their grandparents in California voted Republican all their lives, but ever since passing away have always voted Democrat.
We all know you just made that up, but even so that would only work if no-one knew that the grandparent had died and they were still registered as alive and able to vote. The family would then need to have access to their mailbox to collect and read the mail and fill it out and send it back in their name. Even then, given the likelihood, it would be on comparatively miniscule scale.
  #1493  
Old 22.10.2020, 16:49
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Re: Trump or Biden .Who you got?

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A new report from Columbia University researchers finds that at least 130,000 coronavirus deaths in the United States could have been avoided if the U.S. had responded to the virus as well as a group of other high-income countries.
Source

Trump has a lot to answer for.
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  #1494  
Old 22.10.2020, 17:13
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Re: Trump or Biden .Who you got?

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Actually, the far right do have formal membership
The list seems to have left out Patriotic alternative for the UK. Oops, I shouldn't have said that
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  #1495  
Old 22.10.2020, 17:21
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Re: Trump or Biden .Who you got?

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Source

Trump has a lot to answer for.
IMO, to be truely valid the source of that report would have to come from an establishment with a political bias slightly less left-leaning than the Columbia University.
  #1496  
Old 22.10.2020, 17:24
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That's a drink in CZ. "Bavorák" is fernet and tonic on ice. And BMW. West => fancy.
In Holland that's a beer.

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I don't think these cantonal things exist here, people protect their heimat identity, no? I know some call German Swiss just Germans but not vice versa, we are Romands, not French.
The Swiss Germans sometimes also call the Romands "Welsche".

In old German that term was sometimes also used for French speakers in general. So for example in the period that Alsace was ruled by Germany, the term Welsche was used to refer to the French-speaking minority there, possibly in an attempt to avoid calling them French and thus imply they were in a different category to the French of France. Today the term is sometimes used in Alsatian French by the old French speaking families to distinguish themselves from "new" French speakers who came there from other parts of France. The same word is at the root of the term Wallonie for the French speaking part of Belgium.

The French word Allemand is also a metonym because it strictly refers to the Allemannics, who are actually the ancestors of the people living in present day German-speaking Switzerland and the Southwest of Germany, Baden-Württemberg, Alsace etc. But not the people of most of the rest of Germany, who belonged to other tribes.

Last edited by amogles; 22.10.2020 at 17:37.
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  #1497  
Old 22.10.2020, 17:43
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Re: Trump or Biden .Who you got?

Interesting BBC documentary on a Swede infiltrating the "alt-right":

Undercover in the Alt-Right
Patrik Hermansson: 'I went undercover in the alt-right'

Shows how the Trump campaign deliberately courted the far right, e.g. with Trump portraying himself on Twitter as Pepe the Frog.

Why the Anti-Defamation League just put the Pepe the Frog meme on its hate symbols list
Pepe the Frog: Appropriation by the alt-right

The more I see of Trump the more I think he's not prone to making gaffes but uses language in a calculated way knowing who it will draw in, e.g. saying there were "very fine people on both sides" at Charlottesville and telling a far right group to "stand back and stand by".
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  #1498  
Old 22.10.2020, 17:45
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Re: Trump or Biden .Who you got?

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In Holland that's a beer.



The Swiss Germans sometimes also call the Romands "Welsche".

In old German that term was sometimes also used for French speakers in general. So for example in the period that Alsace was ruled by Germany, the term Welsche was used to refer to the French-speaking minority there, possibly in an attempt to avoid calling them French and thus imply they were in a different category to the French of France. Today the term is sometimes used in Alsatian French by the old French speaking families to distinguish themselves from "new" French speakers who came there from other parts of France. The same word is at the root of the term Wallonie for the French speaking part of Belgium.

The French word Allemand is also a metonym because it strictly refers to the Allemannics, who are actually the ancestors of the people living in present day German-speaking Switzerland and the Southwest of Germany, Baden-Württemberg, Alsace etc. But not the people of most of the rest of Germany, who belonged to other tribes.
Interesting. So Welsche isn't from Welsh -> Celts? Since they moved from our CZ area towards North of France and up to Wales, Ireland and North? Gallois are Celts, no? It would make sense for me (with German and Celtic DNA) to live in the Welsche-land.

I watched the new Heidi last night, she looked very Celtic (2015), lovely movie and originally in German.

Thinking of tribes...

I think to have one president for the US, one for Russia and for China, is just unfeasible. Illogical to please so many voters, just the sheer volume is undemocratic by definition. Break it down like cantons, and it should work better?
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  #1499  
Old 22.10.2020, 17:46
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Re: Trump or Biden .Who you got?

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Interesting BBC documentary on a Swede infiltrating the "alt-right":

Undercover in the Alt-Right
Patrik Hermansson: 'I went undercover in the alt-right'

Shows how the Trump campaign deliberately courted the far right, e.g. with Trump portraying himself on Twitter as Pepe the Frog.

Why the Anti-Defamation League just put the Pepe the Frog meme on its hate symbols list
Pepe the Frog: Appropriation by the alt-right

The more I see of Trump the more I think he's not prone to making gaffes but uses language in a calculated way knowing who it will draw in, e.g. saying there were "very fine people on both sides" at Charlottesville and telling a far right group to "stand back and stand by".
He has his people for this. I been writing this here for ever.
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Old 22.10.2020, 17:53
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Re: Trump or Biden .Who you got?

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Interesting. So Welsche isn't from Welsh -> Celts? Since they moved from our CZ area towards North of France and up to Wales, Ireland and North? Gallois are Celts, no? It would make sense for me (with German and Celtic DNA) to live in the Welsche-land.
It is the same word, originally.

The Welsh never called themselves Welsh historically. That term was applied to them by the Anglo-Saxons and is thus Germanic in origin.

See also Galicia in Spain (G / W linguistically often interchangeable) and also one or two other examples.

And of course in Roman times, France was known as Gaul (and there was one small village that resisted the invaders, but that's another story)
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