Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Off-Topic > Off-Topic > International affairs/politics  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 30.10.2020, 13:43
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Geneva
Posts: 545
Groaned at 63 Times in 39 Posts
Thanked 1,131 Times in 646 Posts
Reb77Br has a reputation beyond reputeReb77Br has a reputation beyond reputeReb77Br has a reputation beyond reputeReb77Br has a reputation beyond reputeReb77Br has a reputation beyond repute
Jeremy Corbyn suspended from Labour Party

The former Labour Party leader Jeremy Corbyn has been suspended from the Labour Party following his reaction to a report by the Equality and Human Rights Commission which is highly critical of the handling of anti-Semitism in the Labour Party under his watch.

Labour suspends Jeremy Corbyn over reaction to anti-Semitism report
What does the Labour anti-Semitism report say?
Labour anti-Semitism report: Corbyn's suspension exposes old divides

Jeremy Corbyn: "I will strongly contest the political intervention to suspend me."
https://twitter.com/jeremycorbyn/sta...12345857941511

A couple of opposing views. One from Jewish former Labour MP Luciana Berger and the other from Jewish writer, campaigner and former African National Congress MP Andrew Feinstein:

https://twitter.com/lucianaberger/st...91627300581379
https://twitter.com/andrewfeinstein/...74506285899779

One thing's for sure: you can't say that Corbyn isn't stubborn. Meanwhile, in case anyone doubts that anti-Semitism exists on the far left, a key union leader and Corbyn supporter is sorry "if" he has caused hurt by telling a Blairite called Mandelson to go and count his gold.

Unite's Len McCluskey apologises for telling Peter Mandelson to go 'count his gold'
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Reb77Br for this useful post:
  #2  
Old 30.10.2020, 13:50
Castro's Avatar
ŗ la mod
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: ZG
Posts: 5,404
Groaned at 110 Times in 88 Posts
Thanked 16,095 Times in 5,130 Posts
Castro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Jeremy Corbyn suspended from Labour Party

Quote:
View Post
One thing's for sure: you can't say that Corbyn isn't stubborn. Meanwhile, in case anyone doubts that anti-Semitism exists on the far left, a key union leader and Corbyn supporter is sorry "if" he has caused hurt by telling a Blairite called Mandelson to go and count his gold.

Unite's Len McCluskey apologises for telling Peter Mandelson to go 'count his gold'
Very stupid and clumsy especially if he was aware of Mandelson's heritage and the anti-semitic tropes. However it would be entirely justified in the case of Tony Blair, who has massively enriched himself advising shady characters around the globe.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 30.10.2020, 14:00
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Geneva
Posts: 545
Groaned at 63 Times in 39 Posts
Thanked 1,131 Times in 646 Posts
Reb77Br has a reputation beyond reputeReb77Br has a reputation beyond reputeReb77Br has a reputation beyond reputeReb77Br has a reputation beyond reputeReb77Br has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Jeremy Corbyn suspended from Labour Party

Hard to believe someone with the intelligence to reach that position wouldn't suspect that someone called Mandelson (sounds like Mendelssohn) would have Jewish heritage and would choose the words "count his gold" without intending to conjure up certain images.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Reb77Br for this useful post:
  #4  
Old 30.10.2020, 14:41
eyebeebe's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Pfšffikon SZ
Posts: 1,858
Groaned at 17 Times in 16 Posts
Thanked 2,179 Times in 988 Posts
eyebeebe has a reputation beyond reputeeyebeebe has a reputation beyond reputeeyebeebe has a reputation beyond reputeeyebeebe has a reputation beyond reputeeyebeebe has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Jeremy Corbyn suspended from Labour Party

Do you have to be intelligent as in the educated, worldly wise sense of the word to become head of a trade union?

I couldnít have told you that Mandelson was Jewish/of Jewish heritage. I can also say that coming from the North of England, I was aware growing up that there was a Jewish quarter in Manchester, but I was nearly 21 when I first met someone I knew to be Jewish (several Americans who were studying in my university class in Germany). I certainly couldnít have told you based on their last names that they were Jewish. In hindsight their looks would have been a clue, but frankly I didnít and donít think about what religion someone is - they had to tell me.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank eyebeebe for this useful post:
  #5  
Old 30.10.2020, 14:43
TonyClifton's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Hopefully soon to be Aargau
Posts: 918
Groaned at 347 Times in 211 Posts
Thanked 2,141 Times in 1,027 Posts
TonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Jeremy Corbyn suspended from Labour Party

Now imagine how many people on these pages were defending him and the Labour party before the last election.

Let's hope the once great Labour movement can put this behind them and move on from these dark times.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank TonyClifton for this useful post:
  #6  
Old 30.10.2020, 14:59
Island Monkey's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Wallis
Posts: 4,780
Groaned at 81 Times in 48 Posts
Thanked 4,844 Times in 2,275 Posts
Island Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Jeremy Corbyn suspended from Labour Party

I donít know enough about this to pass comment, I donít know enough about whatís gone on.

But 2 things I donít get;

1. Why anyone would be Anti-Semitic? Jews never seem to have hurt anyone? I can understand in todayís world why people might have anti-Islamic feelings for example.... but not anti-Semitic.

2. However I canít understand why being against the formation of Israel makes you anti-Semitic
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Island Monkey for this useful post:
  #7  
Old 30.10.2020, 15:09
Ato Ato is offline
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: ZH
Posts: 1,084
Groaned at 14 Times in 14 Posts
Thanked 1,927 Times in 799 Posts
Ato has a reputation beyond reputeAto has a reputation beyond reputeAto has a reputation beyond reputeAto has a reputation beyond reputeAto has a reputation beyond reputeAto has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Jeremy Corbyn suspended from Labour Party

Quote:
View Post
2. However I canít understand why being against the formation of Israel makes you anti-Semitic
Please dig up the previous labour/corbyn thread and all is explained there.

Being anti Israel = Anti Semitic
Being pro Palestine = Anti Semitic
Conflating the Israeli state with Judaism = Anti Semitic
Not agreeing with the Israeli environmental policy for the years of 1983-1989 = Anti Semitic
Pointing out that the environmental policy has nothing to do with Anti Semitism = Anti Semitic
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Ato for this useful post:
  #8  
Old 30.10.2020, 15:10
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Geneva
Posts: 545
Groaned at 63 Times in 39 Posts
Thanked 1,131 Times in 646 Posts
Reb77Br has a reputation beyond reputeReb77Br has a reputation beyond reputeReb77Br has a reputation beyond reputeReb77Br has a reputation beyond reputeReb77Br has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Jeremy Corbyn suspended from Labour Party

Quote:
View Post
Do you have to be intelligent as in the educated, worldly wise sense of the word to become head of a trade union?

I couldn’t have told you that Mandelson was Jewish/of Jewish heritage.
I'd say you'd need to be pretty intelligent to head up a union of that size and political influence and it stands to reason, given their political activities, that Mandelson would have crossed McCluskey's mind/path more often than that of an ordinary person. Plus the "count his gold" reference suggests that he knew Mandelson's heritage. And it's not as if it has never come up before.

2003: Dalyell attacks 'Jewish cabal'

Quote:
Tam Dalyell, the Father of the House of Commons, has accused the Prime Minister of "being unduly influenced by a cabal of Jewish advisers". ... Mr Dalyell named, in his interview with Vanity Fair, Lord Levy, Mr Blair's personal envoy to the Middle East, Peter Mandelson, whose father was Jewish, and Foreign Secretary, Jack Straw, who has Jewish ancestry, as the influential figures behind the Government's Middle East policy.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 30.10.2020, 15:22
NotAllThere's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Baselland
Posts: 12,700
Groaned at 202 Times in 179 Posts
Thanked 18,334 Times in 7,482 Posts
NotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Jeremy Corbyn suspended from Labour Party

Quote:
View Post
Please dig up the previous labour/corbyn thread and all is explained there.

Being anti Israel = Anti Semitic
Being pro Palestine = Anti Semitic
Conflating the Israeli state with Judaism = Anti Semitic
Mmm. Interestingly that's the usual kind of thing trotted out by Antisemites in defence of themselves. It's also not true. You can be anti Israel and pro Palestinian without being antisemitic. And be quite vocal about it. Though you might be accused of it, most people can tell the difference. You can also be very vocal about it and be thoroughly antisemitic. It's like not all Brexiters are racist, but all racists are Brexiters (probably).

Conflating the state of Israel with Judaism is antisemitic, whichever way you slice it. Probably best not to conflate Israeli with Israeli government policy. Being anti-Israeli is as reprehensible as being anti-Welsh. Plenty of Israelis disagree vehemently with the Israeli government's policies.

(I've left out your two remaining points as they're just an extension of the first one - again: criticising Israel's policy is not antisemitic of itself and no sensible person would ever claim that it is. ).
__________________
Down with racism. Long live miscegenation!
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank NotAllThere for this useful post:
  #10  
Old 30.10.2020, 15:23
Blueangel's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: KŁsnacht, Switzerland
Posts: 3,889
Groaned at 105 Times in 96 Posts
Thanked 10,610 Times in 4,679 Posts
Blueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Jeremy Corbyn suspended from Labour Party

Quote:
View Post
The former Labour Party leader Jeremy Corbyn has been suspended from the Labour Party following his reaction to a report by the Equality and Human Rights Commission which is highly critical of the handling of anti-Semitism in the Labour Party under his watch.
Good!
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Blueangel for this useful post:
  #11  
Old 30.10.2020, 15:50
Ato Ato is offline
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: ZH
Posts: 1,084
Groaned at 14 Times in 14 Posts
Thanked 1,927 Times in 799 Posts
Ato has a reputation beyond reputeAto has a reputation beyond reputeAto has a reputation beyond reputeAto has a reputation beyond reputeAto has a reputation beyond reputeAto has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Jeremy Corbyn suspended from Labour Party

Quote:
View Post
Mmm. Interestingly that's the usual kind of thing trotted out by Antisemites in defence of themselves. It's also not true. You can be anti Israel and pro Palestinian without being antisemitic. And be quite vocal about it. Though you might be accused of it, most people can tell the difference. You can also be very vocal about it and be thoroughly antisemitic. It's like not all Brexiters are racist, but all racists are Brexiters (probably).

Conflating the state of Israel with Judaism is antisemitic, whichever way you slice it. Probably best not to conflate Israeli with Israeli government policy. Being anti-Israeli is as reprehensible as being anti-Welsh. Plenty of Israelis disagree vehemently with the Israeli government's policies.

(I've left out your two remaining points as they're just an extension of the first one - again: criticising Israel's policy is not antisemitic of itself and no sensible person would ever claim that it is. ).
Problem being that many of the times I've criticised Israels actions I've been called anti-semitic, and this appears to be the counter-argument to end all arguments when you then have to change the conversation to why something is not anti-semitic instead of arguing the point itself.

Anyways, boo Corbyn and anti-semitism in the labour party.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Ato for this useful post:
  #12  
Old 30.10.2020, 16:38
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Bern
Posts: 289
Groaned at 201 Times in 108 Posts
Thanked 995 Times in 467 Posts
Full Circle has a reputation beyond reputeFull Circle has a reputation beyond reputeFull Circle has a reputation beyond reputeFull Circle has a reputation beyond reputeFull Circle has a reputation beyond reputeFull Circle has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Jeremy Corbyn suspended from Labour Party

Quote:
View Post
Conflating the state of Israel with Judaism is antisemitic, whichever way you slice it.
How so given that Israel is the homeland for Jewish people?
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Full Circle for this useful post:
  #13  
Old 30.10.2020, 17:12
NotAllThere's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Baselland
Posts: 12,700
Groaned at 202 Times in 179 Posts
Thanked 18,334 Times in 7,482 Posts
NotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Jeremy Corbyn suspended from Labour Party

Quote:
View Post
Problem being that many of the times I've criticised Israels actions I've been called anti-semitic, and this appears to be the counter-argument to end all arguments---
It's dumb when that happens. You have my sympathies - so long as your criticism isn't founded in antisemitism of course.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank NotAllThere for this useful post:
  #14  
Old 30.10.2020, 17:21
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Basel
Posts: 130
Groaned at 50 Times in 24 Posts
Thanked 147 Times in 87 Posts
BoredToDeath has become a little unpopularBoredToDeath has become a little unpopular
Re: Jeremy Corbyn suspended from Labour Party

Quote:
View Post
I donít know enough about this to pass comment, I donít know enough about whatís gone on.

But 2 things I donít get;

1. Why anyone would be Anti-Semitic? Jews never seem to have hurt anyone? I can understand in todayís world why people might have anti-Islamic feelings for example.... but not anti-Semitic.

2. However I canít understand why being against the formation of Israel makes you anti-Semitic
1. Hate for Jews has been taught by Christian Church for generations. It is all started as a competition between early Christians who were all Jews and gentiles who wanted to dominate that sect and later devolved into nothing more than a pretext for repeated property crimes and theft from Jews.

2. The same way as being against Turkish occupation of Greek lands would make you.....ta... daaa....: anti-Turkish.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 30.10.2020, 17:36
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Frick, Aargau
Posts: 1,161
Groaned at 27 Times in 23 Posts
Thanked 1,574 Times in 818 Posts
HickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond reputeHickvonFrick has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Jeremy Corbyn suspended from Labour Party

Quote:
View Post
Please dig up the previous labour/corbyn thread and all is explained there.

Being anti Israel = Anti Semitic
Being pro Palestine = Anti Semitic
Honestly, and taking you literally pretty much yes. That is anti-semitism. You can be against the actions leading up to its formation or its current policies (that night be what you meant) but not against its existence - because it's existence is the one thing that is stopping another genocide.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank HickvonFrick for this useful post:
  #16  
Old 30.10.2020, 23:05
Downerbuzz's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: town not big enough for the both of us
Posts: 865
Groaned at 39 Times in 28 Posts
Thanked 959 Times in 411 Posts
Downerbuzz has a reputation beyond reputeDownerbuzz has a reputation beyond reputeDownerbuzz has a reputation beyond reputeDownerbuzz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Jeremy Corbyn suspended from Labour Party

I decided to not discuss Israel and anti-semitism online in 2006. It's worked out pretty well for me.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Downerbuzz for this useful post:
  #17  
Old 30.10.2020, 23:45
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Up there over the fog
Posts: 971
Groaned at 132 Times in 105 Posts
Thanked 1,218 Times in 574 Posts
JackieH has a reputation beyond reputeJackieH has a reputation beyond reputeJackieH has a reputation beyond reputeJackieH has a reputation beyond reputeJackieH has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Jeremy Corbyn suspended from Labour Party

Quote:
View Post
How so given that Israel is the homeland for Jewish people?

Most of it is the homeland of Palestinian people.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank JackieH for this useful post:
  #18  
Old 31.10.2020, 01:33
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Basel
Posts: 130
Groaned at 50 Times in 24 Posts
Thanked 147 Times in 87 Posts
BoredToDeath has become a little unpopularBoredToDeath has become a little unpopular
Re: Jeremy Corbyn suspended from Labour Party

Quote:
View Post
Most of it is the homeland of Palestinian people.
And what about Greek lands that Turkey occupies? How concerned are you about Greeks?
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank BoredToDeath for this useful post:
  #19  
Old 31.10.2020, 02:43
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: .
Posts: 139
Groaned at 6 Times in 6 Posts
Thanked 69 Times in 45 Posts
brda has made some interesting contributions
Re: Jeremy Corbyn suspended from Labour Party

Why do people use "anti-Semitic" and not "Judaeophobic?" Of the people speaking Semitic languages, the number of Hebrew speakers is small compared to the number who speak Arabic and other Semitic languages, so could anti-Semitism not be used also to describe anti-Arab sentiment - though it never is? Judaeophobic is the term that more specifically describes most all of the situations referred to as anti-Semitism, is it not?

Last edited by brda; 31.10.2020 at 03:34.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 31.10.2020, 08:37
FCBarca's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: La CŰte
Posts: 1,249
Groaned at 100 Times in 51 Posts
Thanked 1,359 Times in 622 Posts
FCBarca has a reputation beyond reputeFCBarca has a reputation beyond reputeFCBarca has a reputation beyond reputeFCBarca has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Jeremy Corbyn suspended from Labour Party

The state of the Labour party - a guy who has spent his entire life fighting against prejudice, railroaded by his own party. They tout Blair but bin Corbyn, remarkable really

Lot of parallels with what has happened in the US with Democratic party

EHRC who is meant to be non-departamental, until very recently when the report was being finalized was chaired by someone whose firm advised the conservatives
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank FCBarca for this useful post:
Reply

Tags
anti-semitism, british politics, corbyn, labour




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Jeremy Corbyn refuses to denounce terrorist 'friends' Hamas and Hezbollah marton International affairs/politics 1279 01.12.2019 14:28
Another great Jeremy Corbyn idea! Hausamsee International affairs/politics 93 04.09.2017 17:17
Corbyn Struts His Stuff! Merrylegs International affairs/politics 28 21.06.2017 13:47
Who should replace Jeremy Clarkson? AlexS General off-topic 33 01.01.2016 11:44
New British Labour party leader Ed Miliband Leni International affairs/politics 56 12.10.2010 00:38


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 16:52.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0