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Old 18.11.2020, 14:53
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Re: Ban on new petrol and diesel cars in UK from 2030 under PM's green plan

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it's not electric and will therefore not meet my virtue signaling-needs.
You‘re missing my point. Sooner or later it will be and of the Lamborghini range, it‘s likely to be the first one that is fully electrified, because a) it‘s already big and heavy b) it shares a platform with several other vehicles in the VW stable, which are also likely to get a battery.
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Old 18.11.2020, 15:06
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Re: Ban on new petrol and diesel cars in UK from 2030 under PM's green plan

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Haha, beyond the fun there are practical aspects as being able to carry the weekly supermarket bags, skis, a bike, 4-5 boxes of wine, the luggage of my wife, etc.

I think a hybrid that can run for 25-30km on pure electrical power could cut my gasoline consumption by half or more. Most km are the short commute to work and errands 5 km around home. Albeit, EV fundamentalists like the ones behind the law see hybrids as sinful things.
You're in luck! And it's available as a Spider now, so the wind-in-the-hair crowd can have fun, too.

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Old 18.11.2020, 15:11
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Re: Ban on new petrol and diesel cars in UK from 2030 under PM's green plan

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You‘re missing my point. Sooner or later it will be and of the Lamborghini range, it‘s likely to be the first one that is fully electrified, because a) it‘s already big and heavy b) it shares a platform with several other vehicles in the VW stable, which are also likely to get a battery.
Indeed. The Lamborghini-VW-Porsche Panamera-Bentley Bentayga-Audi SQ7-Urus may well beat all of its parents to electric propulsion. At least it would lose the horrible turbo lag.
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Old 18.11.2020, 15:16
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Re: Ban on new petrol and diesel cars in UK from 2030 under PM's green plan

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You're in luck! And it's available as a Spider now, so the wind-in-the-hair crowd can have fun, too.
OMG, that looks so cool.
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Old 18.11.2020, 15:16
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Re: Ban on new petrol and diesel cars in UK from 2030 under PM's green plan

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You're in luck! And it's available as a Spider now, so the wind-in-the-hair crowd can have fun, too.

I guess that if have to ask how much is the full casco insurance if I want it as a daily driver (20K km per year).....I cannot afford it
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Old 18.11.2020, 15:23
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Re: Ban on new petrol and diesel cars in UK from 2030 under PM's green plan

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Indeed. The Lamborghini-VW-Porsche Panamera-Bentley Bentayga-Audi SQ7-Urus may well beat all of its parents to electric propulsion. At least it would lose the horrible turbo lag.
MB AMG may deliver next year an engine with electric turbo for street legal cars. There are already retrofit kits for older cars on the market. Electric turbos have a very very short lag, fuel efficiency improves, emissions go down. I want to test one of them soon.
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Old 18.11.2020, 15:26
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Re: Ban on new petrol and diesel cars in UK from 2030 under PM's green plan

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May I presume you have never driven one??
I have driven a Tesla, BMW i3 and the Audi. None of them was fun or engaging.

I have yet to drive the Taycan, my gut tells me it might be the only currently available EV I’d enjoy. I tried to sell the idea to the wife and she said she want a car we can take on a road trip through Europe the way we do right now without the need to study where charging points are available and where not... so the next one might be a hybrid but not a full ev.
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Old 18.11.2020, 15:29
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Re: Ban on new petrol and diesel cars in UK from 2030 under PM's green plan

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I guess that if have to ask how much is the full casco insurance if I want it as a daily driver (20K km per year).....I cannot afford it
Actually, not that much, due to historically low rates of claims on Ferraris.

The purchase price might put you off a touch though, as would the servicing after the free period ends... but that's seven years away and you'd be in your new, fully electric Purosangue by then, which may or may not look like this:

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Old 18.11.2020, 16:09
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Re: Ban on new petrol and diesel cars in UK from 2030 under PM's green plan

Not to rain on EV parade, but has anyone published any forecasts of what will happen if 90% of car park switch to consuming electricity instead of oil?
1. How much more trillions of gigawatts humanity would need to supply EVs?
2. Battery technology is limited by physics and it is already almost maxed out. Although another 20-30% efficiency is still possible. So no EVs are not going to go 1000 miles on one charge unless they start building them from fiberglass plastics aka Oil.
3. Battery life is about 15 years, has anyone talked about into which African landfill we are going to dump all these batteries? Batteries contain toxic small molecules that do not have half life. They are toxic forever, unless technology will be developed to make them inert and that requires more energy.

I am not against EVs in principal, I like them, but has the informed assessments been made to conclude that EVs are the solution to the problem instead of another marketing ploy to make everyone buy new shit?
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Old 18.11.2020, 16:25
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Re: Ban on new petrol and diesel cars in UK from 2030 under PM's green plan

I’m not convinced battery electric cars will be the dominant car of the next decade. Current, even potential battery tech goes nowhere near filling the needs of the road transport industry. The last stats I saw were 5 million lorries on EU roads, 85%+ of which are over 30 tonnes. How is that going to work with batteries? This industry strongly favours hydrogen, including here in Switzerland. That requires a refuelling network, and we have one already. They sell petrol and diesel today but already in the DACH region there’s sufficient hydrogen pumps for vehicles to traverse these nations completely on hydrogen. If this continues to gain traction (excuse the pun) then will this be a more compelling answer for private car drivers?

Personally, faced with such a choice I would go hydrogen powered.
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Old 18.11.2020, 16:48
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Re: Ban on new petrol and diesel cars in UK from 2030 under PM's green plan

Interesting article on hydrogen v electric.

https://theconversation.com/hydrogen...science-139899

As it says, standardisation of the batteries so they can be changed quickly in electric vehicles is mainly what's needed, but I can see many manufacturers being reluctant to adopt such a system.
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Old 18.11.2020, 17:23
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Re: Ban on new petrol and diesel cars in UK from 2030 under PM's green plan

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This industry strongly favours hydrogen, including here in Switzerland. That requires a refuelling network, and we have one already. They sell petrol and diesel today but already in the DACH region there’s sufficient hydrogen pumps for vehicles to traverse these nations completely on hydrogen.
As far as I can see there's about 4 in Austria and I haven't yet found any in Switzerland (google delivers any number of false hits plus all sorts of people talk about it but very few deliver). I dare say there's a couple but really very little.

The infrastructure for Hydrogen would be massively expensive, much more so than electric. I also used to think hydrogen would be the future but a combination of the poor system efficiency and the massive costs needed to build up the infrastructure make this unlikely. Also I believe there are significant battery improvements on the horizon which are going to both reduce costs and/or increase range (Tesla have strongly hinted in this direction).
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Old 18.11.2020, 17:35
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Re: Ban on new petrol and diesel cars in UK from 2030 under PM's green plan

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(Tesla have strongly hinted in this direction).
Well, they would wouldn't they? Better batteries equal better car sales.
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Old 18.11.2020, 18:25
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Re: Ban on new petrol and diesel cars in UK from 2030 under PM's green plan

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As far as I can see there's about 4 in Austria and I haven't yet found any in Switzerland (google delivers any number of false hits plus all sorts of people talk about it but very few deliver). I dare say there's a couple but really very little.

The infrastructure for Hydrogen would be massively expensive, much more so than electric. I also used to think hydrogen would be the future but a combination of the poor system efficiency and the massive costs needed to build up the infrastructure make this unlikely. Also I believe there are significant battery improvements on the horizon which are going to both reduce costs and/or increase range (Tesla have strongly hinted in this direction).
Here in Aargau, we have rueblies and the only public hydrogen refueling station in CH The hydrogen station is very near to two big distribution centers of Migros and Coop, makes sense. https://www.aargauerzeitung.ch/aarga...sein-133983685
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Old 18.11.2020, 19:11
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Re: Ban on new petrol and diesel cars in UK from 2030 under PM's green plan

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You‘re missing my point. Sooner or later it will be and of the Lamborghini range, it‘s likely to be the first one that is fully electrified, because a) it‘s already big and heavy b) it shares a platform with several other vehicles in the VW stable, which are also likely to get a battery.
it wouldn't surprise me if supercars get some kind of exemption
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Old 18.11.2020, 19:13
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Re: Ban on new petrol and diesel cars in UK from 2030 under PM's green plan

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Not to rain on EV parade, but has anyone published any forecasts of what will happen if 90% of car park switch to consuming electricity instead of oil?
1. How much more trillions of gigawatts humanity would need to supply EVs?
2. Battery technology is limited by physics and it is already almost maxed out. Although another 20-30% efficiency is still possible. So no EVs are not going to go 1000 miles on one charge unless they start building them from fiberglass plastics aka Oil.
3. Battery life is about 15 years, has anyone talked about into which African landfill we are going to dump all these batteries? Batteries contain toxic small molecules that do not have half life. They are toxic forever, unless technology will be developed to make them inert and that requires more energy.

I am not against EVs in principal, I like them, but has the informed assessments been made to conclude that EVs are the solution to the problem instead of another marketing ploy to make everyone buy new shit?
It would be nice to have electrified roads so you could keep only a small battery and reduce the weight and environmental impact of EVs.
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Old 18.11.2020, 19:49
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Re: Ban on new petrol and diesel cars in UK from 2030 under PM's green plan

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The infrastructure for Hydrogen would be massively expensive, much more so than electric. I also used to think hydrogen would be the future but a combination of the poor system efficiency and the massive costs needed to build up the infrastructure make this unlikely. Also I believe there are significant battery improvements on the horizon which are going to both reduce costs and/or increase range (Tesla have strongly hinted in this direction).
I disagree. I don’t believe in a hydrogen vs electric discussion. I believe that cars will come by default as ev with a hydrogen fuel cell as range extender for the people who need it. Electric infrastructure has a massive hidden cost: the grids. Cheap green electricity is typically available in places where it isn’t needed - from offshore wind parks to hydro power in northern Norway to solar in the Sahara. Transporting that energy to where it’s needed is much more of a challenge than to install chargers. Turning it into hydrogen is even with massive conversion losses going to be one piece of the solution.
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Old 18.11.2020, 20:05
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Re: Ban on new petrol and diesel cars in UK from 2030 under PM's green plan

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Not to rain on EV parade, but has anyone published any forecasts of what will happen if 90% of car park switch to consuming electricity instead of oil?
1. How much more trillions of gigawatts humanity would need to supply EVs?
2. Battery technology is limited by physics and it is already almost maxed out. Although another 20-30% efficiency is still possible. So no EVs are not going to go 1000 miles on one charge unless they start building them from fiberglass plastics aka Oil.
3. Battery life is about 15 years, has anyone talked about into which African landfill we are going to dump all these batteries? Batteries contain toxic small molecules that do not have half life. They are toxic forever, unless technology will be developed to make them inert and that requires more energy.

I am not against EVs in principal, I like them, but has the informed assessments been made to conclude that EVs are the solution to the problem instead of another marketing ploy to make everyone buy new shit?
Wouldn't be dumping the batteries as they'd probably need to be recycled to get as much reusable materials back as possible. None of what we use is infinite in it's availability and we're going through some resources much too quickly for our own good.
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Old 18.11.2020, 20:06
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Re: Ban on new petrol and diesel cars in UK from 2030 under PM's green plan

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..has anyone talked about into which African landfill we are going to dump all these batteries?
Not only that, has anyone had a serious discussion about the conflict zones from which many of the materials for these batteries are sourced? How about the forced and sometimes child labor? And then there's the waste.

The dark side of electric cars video:


Article on waste:
https://www.wraltechwire.com/2019/11...e-study-warns/

And let's not forget the mountains of petrol cars that need to go somewhere too if we all have to switch to electric.

PS - Generating sufficient electricity is an issue too as others have said. Various countries are phasing out nuclear, if they want to reduce carbon emissions then they're not going to be burning coal, etc. Just one article about some of the potential complications:
https://www.freightwaves.com/news/co...ctric-vehicles

It seems like a great idea on the surface but in 9 years? seems unrealistic.
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Old 18.11.2020, 20:49
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Re: Ban on new petrol and diesel cars in UK from 2030 under PM's green plan

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Well, they would wouldn't they? Better batteries equal better car sales.
Not really to that 1st sentence . It is something they are working on (and others) but don't have yet, going to take another 3 to 5 years. Look up Li-ion dry electrodes. Potential for about 25% lower cost and 30% more capacity last I read.
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