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Medea Fleecestealer 18.11.2020 08:12

Ban on new petrol and diesel cars in UK from 2030 under PM's green plan
 
This is just laughable. No way will the UK be ready for this in 2040, never mind 2030. :rofl:

How are they going to provide charging points for every single car parked outside on the streets? Not to mention the hundreds of points that would be needed at motorway service areas and other places for people travelling long distance. And don't get me started on the amount of pollution making all the batteries for electric cars generates.

The whole electric car idea was flawed from the start. It needs a major rethink and standardised manufacturing of the vehicles at a minimum.

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-54981425

AbFab 18.11.2020 09:38

Re: Ban on new petrol and diesel cars in UK from 2030 under PM's green plan
 
You'll be able to buy a fossil-fuel car until December 31 2020 in the UK, if you really want.

Every home and every lampost has electricity and by then there will have been a revolution in EVs:

they will be substantially cheaper to make than ICE vehicles as there are far fewer parts. Sadly manufacturers of gearboxes, exhaust systems, fuel injection systems, etc etc will need to retool or close. Even brake pads will last many years due to regenerative braking.

Batteries will be far more advanced and 1000km range will be possible.

Once the public realise what fun EVs are to drive, the uptake of cleaner cheaper cars will be big.

The bottom line for the UK is charging infrastructure. Sadly the UK government has proved itself to be totally incompetent in the current pandemic and run-up to Brexit...

newtoswitz 18.11.2020 09:45

Re: Ban on new petrol and diesel cars in UK from 2030 under PM's green plan
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by AbFab (Post 3240081)
You'll be able to buy a fossil-fuel car until December 31 2020 in the UK, if you really want.

Every home and every lampost has electricity and by then there will have been a revolution in EVs:

they will be substantially cheaper to make than ICE vehicles as there are far fewer parts. Sadly manufacturers of gearboxes, exhaust systems, fuel injection systems, etc etc will need to retool or close. Even brake pads will last many years due to regenerative braking.

Batteries will be far more advanced and 1000km range will be possible.

Once the public realise what fun EVs are to drive, the uptake of cleaner cheaper cars will be big.

The bottom line for the UK is charging infrastructure. Sadly the UK government has proved itself to be totally incompetent in the current pandemic and run-up to Brexit...

Six weeks to go... :eek:

;)

Phil_MCR 18.11.2020 11:27

Re: Ban on new petrol and diesel cars in UK from 2030 under PM's green plan
 
it's a bit of a chicken and egg problem. nobody wants to buy a car without infrastructure and nobody wants to build infrastructure without critical mass.

i think it is good to set this target. to be honest, i would have liked to have seen a communication 5 years ago banning such cars from 2030 with a ramp in penalty taxes for sale of such cars from 2020 to force a transition. market forces would have done the heavy lifting and by going earlier, it would have secured the next generation of factories and supply chains in the UK.

Axa 18.11.2020 11:30

Re: Ban on new petrol and diesel cars in UK from 2030 under PM's green plan
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Medea Fleecestealer (Post 3240066)
This is just laughable. No way will the UK be ready for this in 2040, never mind 2030. :rofl:

How are they going to provide charging points for every single car parked outside on the streets? Not to mention the hundreds of points that would be needed at motorway service areas and other places for people travelling long distance. And don't get me started on the amount of pollution making all the batteries for electric cars generates.

The whole electric car idea was flawed from the start. It needs a major rethink and standardised manufacturing of the vehicles at a minimum.

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-54981425

There are standard EVs: Nissan Leaf, Renault Zoe, VW ID3.

On a tangential topic, this is a strong signal to car manufacturers and I'm far from an expert to assess the consequences.

For starters, I don't know if this is another big hit to the UK car industry. Ideally car manufacturers could produces EVs locally, such as the Nissan Leaf. If not the UK will be very reliant on EV imports killing local production. Is 10 years enough to convert the local car industry that sell locally to 100% EV?

Again, I'm not an expert but I see a lot of car manufacturers just assembling the EVs in China or other low cost locations and sending to them to the UK. Import tariffs and big tax incentives can try to counter this trend but none of them are good for consumers.

Finally there's a bit of hypocrisy because currently 80% of UK car manufacturing is for export. If polluting cars are banned for selling locally but assembly plants keep churning petrol burning cars for export, what's the point? There's only 1 shared atmosphere.

It seems more like an indirect measure to reduce road congestion by making car ownership more difficult. So making long travel more complicate is a feature not a bug.

eyebeebe 18.11.2020 13:52

Re: Ban on new petrol and diesel cars in UK from 2030 under PM's green plan
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by AbFab (Post 3240081)

Once the public realise what fun EVs are to drive, the uptake of cleaner cheaper cars will be big.

Fun to drive? LMFAO. Can I have some of the Kool-Aid youve been drinking please.

Firstly - while certain electric cars may have incredibly impressive acceleration, they are generally thought by people who enjoy driving (see next point) to be quite dull to drive. Heavy equals bad. Electric cars are heavy. Lack of noise equals bad.

Secondly - The vast majority of people dont care about driving being fun. Cars are seen as appliances to get one from A to B.

Thirdly - By 2030 I believe we will be at a stage where automated driving is viable if not standard. No one will care if the car is fun to drive or not, because they wont be doing the driving.

I say all of that as someone whos next car purchase is likely to be electric - the new Porsche Macan when available. Because it will fill our utilitarian needs, not because its fun.

AbFab 18.11.2020 13:53

Re: Ban on new petrol and diesel cars in UK from 2030 under PM's green plan
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by eyebeebe (Post 3240178)
Fun to drive? LMFAO. Can I have some of the Kool-Aid youve been drinking please.

Firstly - while certain electric cars may have incredibly impressive acceleration, they are generally thought by people who enjoy driving (see next point) to be quite dull to drive. Heavy equals bad. Electric cars are heavy. Lack of noise equals bad.

Secondly - The vast majority of people dont care about driving being fun. Cars are seen as appliances to get one from A to B.

Thirdly - By 2030 I believe we will be at a stage where automated driving is viable if not standard. No one will care if the car is fun to drive or not, because they wont be doing the driving.

I say all of that as someone whos next car purchase is likely to be electric - the new Porsche Macan when available. Because it will fill our utilitarian needs, not because its fun.

May I presume you have never driven one??

k_and_e 18.11.2020 14:02

Re: Ban on new petrol and diesel cars in UK from 2030 under PM's green plan
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by eyebeebe (Post 3240178)
I say all of that as someone whos next car purchase is likely to be electric - the new Porsche Macan when available. Because it will fill our utilitarian needs, not because its fun.

Same for me. I'm waiting for an electric Lamborghini because it's the most obvious car that will fill our utilitarian needs.

MusicChick 18.11.2020 14:06

Re: Ban on new petrol and diesel cars in UK from 2030 under PM's green plan
 
I just want that Ford pick-up truck...automatic.

Axa 18.11.2020 14:11

Re: Ban on new petrol and diesel cars in UK from 2030 under PM's green plan
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by AbFab (Post 3240179)
May I presume you have never driven one??

EV cabrios? There are like 3 or 4 Tesla roadsters in Switzerland. The rest of pure EVs have fixed roof, not fun. There are only hybrid and pure high octane petrol cabrios. Considering the max allowed speed is 120 km/h, my way to have fun is to open the roof and feel as much as possible the wind, engine note and the noise of tires making their job :D

Quote:

Originally Posted by MusicChick (Post 3240183)
I just want that Ford pick-up truck...automatic.

Talking about lady gaga's F-150?

Stoker177 18.11.2020 14:15

Re: Ban on new petrol and diesel cars in UK from 2030 under PM's green plan
 
It would be interesting to know how the Government is going to make reparations to a low income family who currently and more likely in the future wont be able to afford an electric car. Considering the very poor public transport offerings and infrastructure in the UK, what alternative do a poorer family have if they need their car for work or live in the sticks?
This is farcical....sort out public transport first, affordable, safe, efficient and everywhere.

Personally I'll be buying another diesel Beemer or similar here in CH to drag my dogs and chattels about on the near 1000km journey to the west of England for visits home. I'll wave to all the EV drivers as they wait for an hour to charge their cars at some cold service station :msncool:

newtoswitz 18.11.2020 14:16

Re: Ban on new petrol and diesel cars in UK from 2030 under PM's green plan
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Axa (Post 3240185)
EV cabrios? There are like 3 or 4 Tesla roadsters in Switzerland. The rest of pure EVs have fixed roof, not fun. There are only hybrid and pure high octane petrol cabrios. Considering the max allowed speed is 120 km/h, my way to have fun is to open the roof and feel as much as possible the wind, engine note and the noise of tires making their job :D



Talking about lady gaga's F-150?

Not true - https://www.smart.com/ch/de/modelle/eq-fortwo-cabrio

Probably not exactly what you are talking about, but does look fun.

porsch1909 18.11.2020 14:21

Re: Ban on new petrol and diesel cars in UK from 2030 under PM's green plan
 
I, for one, can't wait for the first electric Nissan Qashqai. Can they improve on perfection?

Talk to you later 18.11.2020 14:22

Re: Ban on new petrol and diesel cars in UK from 2030 under PM's green plan
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by porsch1909 (Post 3240192)
I, for one, can't wait for the first electric Nissan Qashqai. Can they improve on perfection?


Maybe make it look less ugly? ;)

Axa 18.11.2020 14:32

Re: Ban on new petrol and diesel cars in UK from 2030 under PM's green plan
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by newtoswitz (Post 3240190)
Not true - https://www.smart.com/ch/de/modelle/eq-fortwo-cabrio

Probably not exactly what you are talking about, but does look fun.

Haha, beyond the fun there are practical aspects as being able to carry the weekly supermarket bags, skis, a bike, 4-5 boxes of wine, the luggage of my wife, etc.

I think a hybrid that can run for 25-30km on pure electrical power could cut my gasoline consumption by half or more. Most km are the short commute to work and errands 5 km around home. Albeit, EV fundamentalists like the ones behind the law see hybrids as sinful things.

k_and_e 18.11.2020 14:38

Re: Ban on new petrol and diesel cars in UK from 2030 under PM's green plan
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by porsch1909 (Post 3240192)
I, for one, can't wait for the first electric Nissan Qashqai. Can they improve on perfection?

The first prototypes have been spotted already. Nissan is in a partnership with Nokia, using the battery technology of the 3310 to provide a lifetime battery charge.

RufusB 18.11.2020 14:43

Re: Ban on new petrol and diesel cars in UK from 2030 under PM's green plan
 
But I don't want an electric car. Or to fork out for a fugly charging point. My OH can't remember to charge both his phones let alone a car...

eyebeebe 18.11.2020 15:17

Re: Ban on new petrol and diesel cars in UK from 2030 under PM's green plan
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by AbFab (Post 3240179)
May I presume you have never driven one??

You may presume what you wish. I had a decent test drive of a Tesla Model S P90. Its ok for what it is, but I wouldnt call it a fun car.

eyebeebe 18.11.2020 15:21

Re: Ban on new petrol and diesel cars in UK from 2030 under PM's green plan
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by k_and_e (Post 3240181)
Same for me. I'm waiting for an electric Lamborghini because it's the most obvious car that will fill our utilitarian needs.

May I present to you the Lamborghini Urus. As its built on a VW Group platform, there is a good chance your needs will be filled.

http://autodesignmagazine.com/wp-con...ghini_urus.jpg

k_and_e 18.11.2020 15:25

Re: Ban on new petrol and diesel cars in UK from 2030 under PM's green plan
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by eyebeebe (Post 3240222)
May I present to you the Lamborghini Urus. As its built on a VW Group platform, there is a good chance your needs will be filled.

it's not electric and will therefore not meet my virtue signaling-needs.


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