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Old 18.11.2020, 08:12
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Ban on new petrol and diesel cars in UK from 2030 under PM's green plan

This is just laughable. No way will the UK be ready for this in 2040, never mind 2030.

How are they going to provide charging points for every single car parked outside on the streets? Not to mention the hundreds of points that would be needed at motorway service areas and other places for people travelling long distance. And don't get me started on the amount of pollution making all the batteries for electric cars generates.

The whole electric car idea was flawed from the start. It needs a major rethink and standardised manufacturing of the vehicles at a minimum.

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-54981425
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Old 18.11.2020, 09:38
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Re: Ban on new petrol and diesel cars in UK from 2030 under PM's green plan

You'll be able to buy a fossil-fuel car until December 31 2020 in the UK, if you really want.

Every home and every lampost has electricity and by then there will have been a revolution in EVs:

they will be substantially cheaper to make than ICE vehicles as there are far fewer parts. Sadly manufacturers of gearboxes, exhaust systems, fuel injection systems, etc etc will need to retool or close. Even brake pads will last many years due to regenerative braking.

Batteries will be far more advanced and 1000km range will be possible.

Once the public realise what fun EVs are to drive, the uptake of cleaner cheaper cars will be big.

The bottom line for the UK is charging infrastructure. Sadly the UK government has proved itself to be totally incompetent in the current pandemic and run-up to Brexit...
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Old 18.11.2020, 09:45
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Re: Ban on new petrol and diesel cars in UK from 2030 under PM's green plan

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You'll be able to buy a fossil-fuel car until December 31 2020 in the UK, if you really want.

Every home and every lampost has electricity and by then there will have been a revolution in EVs:

they will be substantially cheaper to make than ICE vehicles as there are far fewer parts. Sadly manufacturers of gearboxes, exhaust systems, fuel injection systems, etc etc will need to retool or close. Even brake pads will last many years due to regenerative braking.

Batteries will be far more advanced and 1000km range will be possible.

Once the public realise what fun EVs are to drive, the uptake of cleaner cheaper cars will be big.

The bottom line for the UK is charging infrastructure. Sadly the UK government has proved itself to be totally incompetent in the current pandemic and run-up to Brexit...
Six weeks to go...

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Old 18.11.2020, 13:52
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Re: Ban on new petrol and diesel cars in UK from 2030 under PM's green plan

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Once the public realise what fun EVs are to drive, the uptake of cleaner cheaper cars will be big.
Fun to drive? LMFAO. Can I have some of the Kool-Aid you‘ve been drinking please.

Firstly - while certain electric cars may have incredibly impressive acceleration, they are generally thought by people who enjoy driving (see next point) to be quite dull to drive. Heavy equals bad. Electric cars are heavy. Lack of noise equals bad.

Secondly - The vast majority of people don‘t care about driving being fun. Cars are seen as appliances to get one from A to B.

Thirdly - By 2030 I believe we will be at a stage where automated driving is viable if not standard. No one will care if the car is fun to drive or not, because they won‘t be doing the driving.

I say all of that as someone who‘s next car purchase is likely to be electric - the new Porsche Macan when available. Because it will fill our utilitarian needs, not because it‘s fun.
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Old 18.11.2020, 13:53
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Re: Ban on new petrol and diesel cars in UK from 2030 under PM's green plan

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Fun to drive? LMFAO. Can I have some of the Kool-Aid you‘ve been drinking please.

Firstly - while certain electric cars may have incredibly impressive acceleration, they are generally thought by people who enjoy driving (see next point) to be quite dull to drive. Heavy equals bad. Electric cars are heavy. Lack of noise equals bad.

Secondly - The vast majority of people don‘t care about driving being fun. Cars are seen as appliances to get one from A to B.

Thirdly - By 2030 I believe we will be at a stage where automated driving is viable if not standard. No one will care if the car is fun to drive or not, because they won‘t be doing the driving.

I say all of that as someone who‘s next car purchase is likely to be electric - the new Porsche Macan when available. Because it will fill our utilitarian needs, not because it‘s fun.
May I presume you have never driven one??
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Old 18.11.2020, 15:17
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Re: Ban on new petrol and diesel cars in UK from 2030 under PM's green plan

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May I presume you have never driven one??
You may presume what you wish. I had a decent test drive of a Tesla Model S P90. It‘s ok for what it is, but I wouldn‘t call it a fun car.
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Old 18.11.2020, 16:26
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Re: Ban on new petrol and diesel cars in UK from 2030 under PM's green plan

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May I presume you have never driven one??
I have driven a Tesla, BMW i3 and the Audi. None of them was fun or engaging.

I have yet to drive the Taycan, my gut tells me it might be the only currently available EV I’d enjoy. I tried to sell the idea to the wife and she said she want a car we can take on a road trip through Europe the way we do right now without the need to study where charging points are available and where not... so the next one might be a hybrid but not a full ev.
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Old 18.11.2020, 14:02
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Re: Ban on new petrol and diesel cars in UK from 2030 under PM's green plan

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I say all of that as someone who‘s next car purchase is likely to be electric - the new Porsche Macan when available. Because it will fill our utilitarian needs, not because it‘s fun.
Same for me. I'm waiting for an electric Lamborghini because it's the most obvious car that will fill our utilitarian needs.
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Old 18.11.2020, 14:06
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Re: Ban on new petrol and diesel cars in UK from 2030 under PM's green plan

I just want that Ford pick-up truck...automatic.
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Old 18.11.2020, 14:11
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Re: Ban on new petrol and diesel cars in UK from 2030 under PM's green plan

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May I presume you have never driven one??
EV cabrios? There are like 3 or 4 Tesla roadsters in Switzerland. The rest of pure EVs have fixed roof, not fun. There are only hybrid and pure high octane petrol cabrios. Considering the max allowed speed is 120 km/h, my way to have fun is to open the roof and feel as much as possible the wind, engine note and the noise of tires making their job

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I just want that Ford pick-up truck...automatic.
Talking about lady gaga's F-150?
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Old 18.11.2020, 14:15
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Re: Ban on new petrol and diesel cars in UK from 2030 under PM's green plan

It would be interesting to know how the Government is going to make reparations to a low income family who currently and more likely in the future wont be able to afford an electric car. Considering the very poor public transport offerings and infrastructure in the UK, what alternative do a poorer family have if they need their car for work or live in the sticks?
This is farcical....sort out public transport first, affordable, safe, efficient and everywhere.

Personally I'll be buying another diesel Beemer or similar here in CH to drag my dogs and chattels about on the near 1000km journey to the west of England for visits home. I'll wave to all the EV drivers as they wait for an hour to charge their cars at some cold service station
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Old 18.11.2020, 15:21
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Re: Ban on new petrol and diesel cars in UK from 2030 under PM's green plan

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Same for me. I'm waiting for an electric Lamborghini because it's the most obvious car that will fill our utilitarian needs.
May I present to you the Lamborghini Urus. As it‘s built on a VW Group platform, there is a good chance your needs will be filled.

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Old 18.11.2020, 15:25
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Re: Ban on new petrol and diesel cars in UK from 2030 under PM's green plan

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May I present to you the Lamborghini Urus. As it‘s built on a VW Group platform, there is a good chance your needs will be filled.
it's not electric and will therefore not meet my virtue signaling-needs.
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Old 19.11.2020, 20:20
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Re: Ban on new petrol and diesel cars in UK from 2030 under PM's green plan

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Fun to drive? LMFAO. Can I have some of the Kool-Aid you‘ve been drinking please.

Firstly - while certain electric cars may have incredibly impressive acceleration, they are generally thought by people who enjoy driving (see next point) to be quite dull to drive. Heavy equals bad. Electric cars are heavy. Lack of noise equals bad.

Secondly - The vast majority of people don‘t care about driving being fun. Cars are seen as appliances to get one from A to B.

Thirdly - By 2030 I believe we will be at a stage where automated driving is viable if not standard. No one will care if the car is fun to drive or not, because they won‘t be doing the driving.

I say all of that as someone who‘s next car purchase is likely to be electric - the new Porsche Macan when available. Because it will fill our utilitarian needs, not because it‘s fun.
Oh the Macan....that car with half the range of a Model X?
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Old 19.11.2020, 20:50
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Re: Ban on new petrol and diesel cars in UK from 2030 under PM's green plan

So, what do people think will happen to the fossil fuel cars bought in 2029? Taxed to oblivion by 2035? Will second hand fossil fuel cars prices rise as they will be in demand?

I haven’t seen the year that the EU/CH is wanting to introduce this, is it 2035? Or is this now irrelevant as most car manufacturers will go towards the UK date and just bring it in to the EU market even if the dates do not match?
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Old 19.11.2020, 21:09
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Re: Ban on new petrol and diesel cars in UK from 2030 under PM's green plan

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So, what do people think will happen to the fossil fuel cars bought in 2029? Taxed to oblivion by 2035? Will second hand fossil fuel cars prices rise as they will be in demand?

I haven’t seen the year that the EU/CH is wanting to introduce this, is it 2035? Or is this now irrelevant as most car manufacturers will go towards the UK date and just bring it in to the EU market even if the dates do not match?
Has it's own Wikipedia page. Quite a few countries banning new ice sales from 2030 including Germany. Austria from 2027

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phas...ogram%2C%20Sri
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Old 19.11.2020, 23:52
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Re: Ban on new petrol and diesel cars in UK from 2030 under PM's green plan

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So, what do people think will happen to the fossil fuel cars bought in 2029? Taxed to oblivion by 2035? Will second hand fossil fuel cars prices rise as they will be in demand?
I think they will begin phasing out pure ICE cars a lot sooner, in favour of EV or hybrids. The market will dictate, nobody will want a car that is expensive to tax, impossible to sell on and no longer in vogue.

For the car enthusiasts yes, ICEs will probably be in demand but we're talking V6s and Turbo charged hot hatches, not your average family estate.
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Old 20.11.2020, 18:07
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Re: Ban on new petrol and diesel cars in UK from 2030 under PM's green plan

What people don't realize is that it takes very little to make owning an ICE car almost as annoying as driving a 1st gen Nissan Leaf across the US.

AFAIK, gas-stations already make nearly no profit (or none at all) on the sale of fuel alone.

What do you think will happen when the demand for fuel declines every year?

Do you think more gas-stations will pop up to sell a declining number of customers less fuel?

I read somewhere that it only took a couple of weeks of Tesco et.al. undercutting each other on fuel prices to drive all "independent" gas-stations into bankruptcy (when was that? 90s?).

Engines these days are highly developed. They are not easy to repair and have special requirements for oil, fuel, ad-blue etc.pp.

The companies that produce this stuff will charge you through the nose for it when demand goes down and thus a negative scale-effect comes into play.

Adding to that are ever increasing regulations that will make it nearly impossible to build a car with an ICE engine anyway well before 2030.

See the discussion on the upcoming standardization of the Euro7 standard.

And don't forget that more and more cities will just ban ICE-cars from entering.

It will be like owning one of those Euro5 Diesels now.

The fact that a lot of people can't afford a "decent" BEV right now is not really a concern to politicians, in case you still harbor that romantic view of the world.


For once, the often quoted word of "disruption" is an apt description of the things to come.
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Old 19.11.2020, 21:55
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Re: Ban on new petrol and diesel cars in UK from 2030 under PM's green plan

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Oh the Macan....that car with half the range of a Model X?
Would love to see the link to something that tells us the range of an unreleased car. We know the Macan is coming, but don‘t even know what it looks like. The closest thing is a partial view of a clay model.

Model X is bigger than I am interested in.
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Old 20.11.2020, 22:27
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Re: Ban on new petrol and diesel cars in UK from 2030 under PM's green plan

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Would love to see the link to something that tells us the range of an unreleased car. We know the Macan is coming, but don‘t even know what it looks like. The closest thing is a partial view of a clay model.

Model X is bigger than I am interested in.
Any other brand than Tesla will approximately be half the the range of any Tesla, that isn’t difficult to work out...
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