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  #41  
Old 01.01.2021, 21:20
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Re: how many think Johnson has done a good job with The Deal?

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What on earth does 'get Brexit done'- what has it actually achieved, in real terms?

As for his school reports- they are well known- and none of them are good. Lazy, feckless, worse.
Consider the situation 18 months ago. The EU had run rings around Theresa May, who'd been undermined by both Parliament and her own party. There was a useless Remainer Chancellor in Phillip Hammond and a useless negotiator in Olly Robbins who was negotiating on behalf of Mrs May a terrible deal that was Brexit in name only. As a result we were left with a pretty bad Withdrawal agreement that Boris Johnson was only able to tart up with a few minor amendments.

Enter stage right Boris Johnson (plus Dominic Cummings and Lord David Frost). First he punished the despicable Remainer MPs by trouncing them all in a General Election, then they got to work on Brexit. Only this time with a clear goal of what Brexit meant and a clear negotiation strategy. They were prepared to walk away if necessary.

They managed to negotiate zero-tariff, zero-quota access to the single market with no contribution to the EU budget, and no FMOP. Also ensured the UK is out of the customs union and away from ECJ jurisdiction. Pure free trade whilst retaining sovereignty. The instruction given to the government in the 2016 referendum has been carried out.
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  #42  
Old 01.01.2021, 21:44
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Re: how many think Johnson has done a good job with The Deal?

I am not quite sure if


you do not understand

or

don't want to understand

or

worse.

No Free Trade and Sovereignty has been agreed. Any divergence from EU rules that gives UK trade an advantage, be it on husbandry, welfare, antibiotics and feeds, workers' rights, hours, conditions, maternity leave, etc, etc - will lead to tariffs being imposed. As for fisheries, the negotiations will go on for 10 years.
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  #43  
Old 01.01.2021, 21:44
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Re: how many think Johnson has done a good job with The Deal?

I wonder if Labours long term aim is to have a referendum on freedom of movement (taking the uk close to the Swiss position).

I think they are streetwise enough to avoid being a rejoin party.
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  #44  
Old 01.01.2021, 21:46
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Re: how many think Johnson has done a good job with The Deal?

For personal reasons I would have preferred holding on to the EU passport, but if the majority in a country decided that they wanted Brexit then no point endlessly whining about it.
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  #45  
Old 01.01.2021, 21:50
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Re: how many think Johnson has done a good job with The Deal?

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I am not quite sure if


you do not understand

or

don't want to understand

or

worse.

No Free Trade and Sovereignty has been agreed. Any divergence from EU rules that gives UK trade an advantage, be it on husbandry, welfare, antibiotics and feeds, workers' rights, hours, conditions, maternity leave, etc, etc - will lead to tariffs being imposed. As for fisheries, the negotiations will go on for 10 years.
That's true of most trade deals. EU minimums tend to be pretty derisory anyway (3 months maternity for example).
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  #46  
Old 01.01.2021, 21:56
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Re: how many think Johnson has done a good job with The Deal?

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I am not quite sure if


you do not understand

or

don't want to understand

or

worse.

No Free Trade and Sovereignty has been agreed. Any divergence from EU rules that gives UK trade an advantage, be it on husbandry, welfare, antibiotics and feeds, workers' rights, hours, conditions, maternity leave, etc, etc - will lead to tariffs being imposed. As for fisheries, the negotiations will go on for 10 years.
Frankly speaking I don't understand why you ask people on their views to then insist on your opinion.
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  #47  
Old 01.01.2021, 22:09
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Re: how many think Johnson has done a good job with The Deal?

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Frankly speaking I don't understand why you ask people on their views to then insist on your opinion.
It’s just another ‘but that’s impossible’ hard leftie who will deny and refute any possible claim that doesn’t align perfectly with their idea that brexit should never have happened. It’s pointless arguing, you might as well be talking Chinese to them, they will simply deny everything you say.
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  #48  
Old 01.01.2021, 22:19
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Re: how many think Johnson has done a good job with The Deal?

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Time will tell, but for now he gets a bit of goodwill
Most of the UK appears to entirely out of goodwill towards Johnson and his Cabal of Incompetents.

There's a 90s pop group name for you.




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Consider the situation 18 months ago. The EU had run rings around Theresa May, who'd been undermined by both Parliament and her own party. There was a useless Remainer Chancellor in Phillip Hammond and a useless negotiator in Olly Robbins who was negotiating on behalf of Mrs May a terrible deal that was Brexit in name only. As a result we were left with a pretty bad Withdrawal agreement that Boris Johnson was only able to tart up with a few minor amendments.

Enter stage right Boris Johnson (plus Dominic Cummings and Lord David Frost). First he punished the despicable Remainer MPs by trouncing them all in a General Election, then they got to work on Brexit. Only this time with a clear goal of what Brexit meant and a clear negotiation strategy. They were prepared to walk away if necessary.

They managed to negotiate zero-tariff, zero-quota access to the single market with no contribution to the EU budget, and no FMOP. Also ensured the UK is out of the customs union and away from ECJ jurisdiction. Pure free trade whilst retaining sovereignty. The instruction given to the government in the 2016 referendum has been carried out.
This is quite some spin. We know you're a right wing Tory fan but this is sycophancy of a different level.

It's a shittier deal than we had originally, essentially. And when we vote to rejoin in about 8-10 years' time we will have to go with cap in hand.
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  #49  
Old 01.01.2021, 22:57
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Re: how many think Johnson has done a good job with The Deal?

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This is quite some spin. We know you're a right wing Tory fan but this is sycophancy of a different level.

It's a shittier deal than we had originally, essentially. And when we vote to rejoin in about 8-10 years' time we will have to go with cap in hand.
If you're a Remainer I can see why you'd think that, if you're a Brexiteer though, this deal ticks many of the boxes.

Also, the UK will not rejoin the EU in our lifetimes.
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  #50  
Old 01.01.2021, 23:38
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Re: how many think Johnson has done a good job with The Deal?

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Most of the UK appears to entirely out of goodwill towards Johnson and his Cabal of Incompetents.

There's a 90s pop group name for you.

This is quite some spin. We know you're a right wing Tory fan but this is sycophancy of a different level.

It's a shittier deal than we had originally, essentially. And when we vote to rejoin in about 8-10 years' time we will have to go with cap in hand.
There is literally no way we will be rejoining. Can you seriously imagine people voting to join the Euro? FMOP reintroduction is the only plausible backtrack.

Also - he's relatively popular in the north - outside the Didsbury chattering classes anyway.
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  #51  
Old 01.01.2021, 23:40
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Re: how many think Johnson has done a good job with The Deal?

…another pointless thread, where far right will throw mess on the left...
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  #52  
Old 01.01.2021, 23:41
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Re: how many think Johnson has done a good job with The Deal?

What I (as a Dutchie) find ironic is that the UK itself is a mini EU made up of 4 countries.

All the arguments for exiting the EU can be used to exit the UK...
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  #53  
Old 01.01.2021, 23:42
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Re: how many think Johnson has done a good job with The Deal?

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If you're a Remainer I can see why you'd think that, if you're a Brexiteer though, this deal ticks many of the boxes.
which boxes, please enlighten us? Tell us, clearly- which they are. And of course it will be fair enough for any of us to reply and say- perhaps- why it makes non sense. Give us good, clear arguments- that we can't refute - and that will be it.

83% of the UK population think this is a bad deal... and incredibly, 73% of the Brexiters- that is pretty damning.
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  #54  
Old 01.01.2021, 23:45
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Re: how many think Johnson has done a good job with The Deal?

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83% of the UK population think this is a bad deal... and incredibly, 73% of the Brexiters- that is pretty damning.
Evidence please.

Reality is that if the left think they'll win on a platform of screaming about Europe they'll lose .... again. The seats they need to win are mostly brexity towns in the north.

Last edited by HickvonFrick; 01.01.2021 at 23:59.
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  #55  
Old 02.01.2021, 00:02
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Re: how many think Johnson has done a good job with The Deal?

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which boxes, please enlighten us? Tell us, clearly- which they are. And of course it will be fair enough for any of us to reply and say- perhaps- why it makes non sense. Give us good, clear arguments- that we can't refute - and that will be it.

83% of the UK population think this is a bad deal... and incredibly, 73% of the Brexiters- that is pretty damning.
The deal brings control over borders, money, laws and zero-tariff trade. These are the boxes.

From today pulse fishing has been banned in UK waters. VAT on sanitary products has been scrapped. Big things have small beginnings!
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  #56  
Old 02.01.2021, 00:05
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Re: how many think Johnson has done a good job with The Deal?

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And when we vote to rejoin in about 8-10 years' time we will have to go with cap in hand.
You are deluded.
It's over for a generation. Anyone in politics today won't touch another referendum with a bargepole.
Both Tories and labour are Brexit parties, ( Starmer must be delighted Boris has done the dirty work) which leaves the lib Dems to rise from the ashes, and they don't attract high enough quality politicians.
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  #57  
Old 02.01.2021, 00:05
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Re: how many think Johnson has done a good job with The Deal?

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What I (as a Dutchie) find ironic is that the UK itself is a mini EU made up of 4 countries.

All the arguments for exiting the EU can be used to exit the UK...
The difference being that the union has existed for over 300 as a unitary state. The UK is an interconnected web of families, stories, history and love. It took four and half years to unwind 40 years of EU membership. Imagine how long it would take to dismantle 300 years of the union!
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  #58  
Old 02.01.2021, 00:16
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Re: how many think Johnson has done a good job with The Deal?

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The difference being that the union has existed for over 300 as a unitary state. The UK is an interconnected web of families, stories, history and love. It took four and half years to unwind 40 years of EU membership. Imagine how long it would take to dismantle 300 years of the union!
In 300 years the EU will also have all mentioned above. Time is the only difference. But with things like the SNP the UK might not be that tight.

The EU is doing a good job of devide and conquer of the UK. North Ireland has some sort of special status with the border now in the Irish Sea (I think, am not sure anymore after all the developments of the last weeks). Gibraltar has some sort of specialty deal (?). And Scotland has asked the EU to keep the light on cause theyll pull a Schwarzenegger (I'll be back).
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  #59  
Old 02.01.2021, 00:18
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Re: how many think Johnson has done a good job with The Deal?

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Anyone in politics today won't touch another referendum with a bargepole.
Well, the Scots maybe.

It is still beyond me how Cameron stumbled into this. Not that I follow UK politics much, but this seemed like a mind-boggling self-inflicted wound.
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  #60  
Old 02.01.2021, 00:20
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Re: how many think Johnson has done a good job with The Deal?

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In 300 years the EU will also have all mentioned above. Time is the only difference. But with things like the SNP the UK might not be that tight.

The EU is doing a good job of devide and conquer of the UK. North Ireland has some sort of special status with the border now in the Irish Sea (I think, am not sure anymore after all the developments of the last weeks). Gibraltar has some sort of specialty deal (?). And Scotland has asked the EU to keep the light on cause theyll pull a Schwarzenegger (I'll be back).
I'm fairly certain the EU won't exist in 10-20 years, let alone 300!
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