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  #101  
Old 02.01.2021, 20:23
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Re: how many think Johnson has done a good job with The Deal?

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Lets take back control !

But in the end the UK will be the EU's b!tch...
Or Americas´.
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  #102  
Old 02.01.2021, 21:34
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Re: how many think Johnson has done a good job with The Deal?

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My wife found it very hard to get a job in London after graduation because few industries are willing to sponsor a non-EU permit. Now they will be as sufficiently talented Brits aren't numerous enough to fill the jobs going by themselves.
That’s a terrible experience- how good this will never ever happen to British citizens in places like Switzerland due to Brexit... oh, wait...
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  #103  
Old 02.01.2021, 21:41
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Re: how many think Johnson has done a good job with The Deal?

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That’s a terrible experience- how good this will never ever happen to British citizens in places like Switzerland due to Brexit... oh, wait...
British citizens are now from a 3rd country... I think the main thing to watch out for is that if you loose your job and go through the full unemployment period, afterwards you're supposed to leave. Also for a person to be hired fro a 3rd country, the employer has to show no CH or EU person could be found for the job.
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  #104  
Old 02.01.2021, 21:43
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Re: how many think Johnson has done a good job with The Deal?

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The difference is UK was a net contributor to the EU whereas Scotland isn't close to fiscal break even.

I don't want to talk down a different country but they will need to tighten their belts significantly on independence. Good luck to them whatever.
This is basically why I was always confident (80-90%) that a trade deal would be agreed between the UK and EU in the end. Ultimately the rhetoric and ideology had to give way to realpolitik as both sides were confronted with what was at stake were a deal not to be struck. The UK isn't a small country/economy like Ireland or Greece and the reality of her size meant that at some point the EU would have to take the situation seriously.
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  #105  
Old 02.01.2021, 21:53
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Re: how many think Johnson has done a good job with The Deal?

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That’s a terrible experience- how good this will never ever happen to British citizens in places like Switzerland due to Brexit... oh, wait...
Perhaps - but somewhat different for an experienced high paid professional vs a new graduate. Either way it doesn't make the system right.

From my observation in big pharma it seems that they are able to hire non-Eu people pretty easily.
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  #106  
Old 02.01.2021, 22:12
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Re: how many think Johnson has done a good job with The Deal?

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This is basically why I was always confident (80-90%) that a trade deal would be agreed between the UK and EU in the end. Ultimately the rhetoric and ideology had to give way to realpolitik as both sides were confronted with what was at stake were a deal not to be struck. The UK isn't a small country/economy like Ireland or Greece and the reality of her size meant that at some point the EU would have to take the situation seriously.
Still,
The EU exports more goods to the UK than it imports - deal in place
The UK provides more services to the EU than other way around - not part of deal.

Pretty lobsided in EU's favour.

Whats the guys name, Sunak ? Said that now the services deal still has to be arranged. Lets see how quick that goes... especially since the EU wont be in a hurry
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  #107  
Old 03.01.2021, 00:05
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Re: how many think Johnson has done a good job with The Deal?

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British citizens are now from a 3rd country... I think the main thing to watch out for is that if you loose your job and go through the full unemployment period, afterwards you're supposed to leave. Also for a person to be hired fro a 3rd country, the employer has to show no CH or EU person could be found for the job.
That was my point. Young British citizens will have less chances to study or make work experiences abroad. I know that for me both was absolutely key to who I am today and I am very happy about the opportunities I had.

It’s a loss for Europeans to have less access to the UK, but vice versa are they losing out on an entire continent.
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  #108  
Old 03.01.2021, 00:17
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Re: how many think Johnson has done a good job with The Deal?

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That was my point. Young British citizens will have less chances to study or make work experiences abroad. I know that for me both was absolutely key to who I am today and I am very happy about the opportunities I had.

It’s a loss for Europeans to have less access to the UK, but vice versa are they losing out on an entire continent.
As far as university goes outside of language students there's not much interest to be honest. Many (probably most, but I can find anything definitive) courses don't allow it.

Mine certainly didn't.

There's more interest in the US and Canada for obvious reasons (language) - see https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.tel...ort-finds/amp/

Essentially we weren't participating at anywhere near the level required to get value for money - see https://facts4eu.org/news/2019_jan_erasmus#

I'm not blaming the scheme for that - but the fact remains that the cost per head was extremely high

Last edited by HickvonFrick; 03.01.2021 at 00:29.
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  #109  
Old 03.01.2021, 00:28
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Re: how many think Johnson has done a good job with The Deal?

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As far as university goes outside of language students there's not much interest to be honest. Many (probably most, but I can find anything definitive) courses don't allow it.

Mine certainly didn't.

There's more interest in the US and Canada for obvious reasons (language) - see https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.tel...ort-finds/amp/
16.5k UK students used Erasmus per year.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/education-47293927
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  #110  
Old 03.01.2021, 00:44
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Re: how many think Johnson has done a good job with The Deal?

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16.5k UK students used Erasmus per year.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/education-47293927
Under 1% of UK students - and Erasmus membership 2014-2020 cost the UK over 2bn euros.

That's a large sum. I'm not going to churlishly minimise the opportunities of studying abroad - but given that the US is by a very very long way the biggest destination for UK students, Australia (!) is second, and Canada is about level with Ireland and France (mist popular EU destinations), coupled with our low participation means that it might make sense for us to do something a bit different.

Ultimately our Erasmus membership is not being simply scrapped but rather replaced with a global scheme - I don't see why anyone would think that is a bad thing.

Last edited by HickvonFrick; 03.01.2021 at 00:56.
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  #111  
Old 03.01.2021, 00:57
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Re: how many think Johnson has done a good job with The Deal?

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Erasmus membership 2014-2020 cost the UK over 2bn euros.

That's a large sum. I'm not going to churlishly minimise the opportunities of studying abroad - but given that the US is by a very very long way the biggest destination for UK students, Australia (!) is second, and Canada is about level with Ireland and France (mist popular EU destinations), coupled with our low participation means that it might make sense for us to do something a bit different.

Being in the anglosphere changes things somewhat.
In the Erasmus program do countries pay for the incoming students, so a little over 30k a year time for seven years. Simply put: 2bn divided by over 200k students is less than 10k per student. Does not sound like a terrible investment to me. Fun fact: the students at home benefit from visiting students as well.
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  #112  
Old 03.01.2021, 01:09
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Re: how many think Johnson has done a good job with The Deal?

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In the Erasmus program do countries pay for the incoming students, so a little over 30k a year time for seven years. Simply put: 2bn divided by over 200k students is less than 10k per student. Does not sound like a terrible investment to me. Fun fact: the students at home benefit from visiting students as well.
That's the figure I came to as well but wasn't sure of my maths. I don't claim to be any kind of expert in what these things should cost but if I understand correctly the Turing Scheme at £100M covers 35,000 opportunities so is slightly less than half the price?

Our friends the Swiss seem to have something similar but limited to Europe https://ethz.ch/en/studies/non-degre...programme.html

On a purely selfish perspective there's a decent chance my daughter would be looking to US or China for a year abroad as she's a native English / Mandarin / (presuming we stay here) German speaker

Last edited by HickvonFrick; 03.01.2021 at 01:25.
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  #113  
Old 03.01.2021, 02:12
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Re: how many think Johnson has done a good job with The Deal?

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Lets take back control !
Sounds like something King George the III would say after losing the American colonies in 1783. In fact
the Brits did try to 'take back control' of their American colonies in 1812.

Maybe the 21st century will see the Brexits fulfill their wildest dream, of sealing the 'special relationship'
for good by becoming the 51st state of America.
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  #114  
Old 03.01.2021, 09:33
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Re: how many think Johnson has done a good job with The Deal?

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Hi All,

I've been reading this thread with interest and can only add that it would not take much to tip the Scottish towards independence. I remember watching Braveheart in the cinema in 1995 in Glasgow when, after the English did something rather nasty, an old granny stood up waving her crutches and shouted "that's typical of the bloody English!" and the whole cinema cheered in agreement.

I would not be surprised if this contributed significantly to the devolution vote in 1997.

My opinion on such is that a referendum with huge consequences dismantling 10's or even 100's of years of agreements should not be based on public opinion at one specific time point, but checked and double checked over time.
Well...I am surprised to say the least. Mel Gibson received an Oscar in my home town for that film. Note-film/fiction. It was not a documentary as a lot of people seem to think.
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  #115  
Old 03.01.2021, 09:40
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Re: how many think Johnson has done a good job with The Deal?

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Well...I am surprised to say the least. Mel Gibson received an Oscar in my home town for that film. Note-film/fiction. It was not a documentary as a lot of people seem to think.
Your post doesn't make much sense. What exactly are you surprised by... that a fictional film, a dramatization loosely based on the actual history, stirred up feelings of Scottish national pride and resentment towards the English? Braveheart may not have been a documentary, but the history of the conflicts between England and Scotland during those times is well known and the film did an amazing job of taking a giant wooden spoon and stirring that passion. Despite Gibsons dodgy Aussie accent I'm not sure Braveheart could have done a better job if it had tried; I don't think anyone expected it to blow up like it did and it's pretty much the only movie of its type.

Last edited by Chuff; 03.01.2021 at 09:56.
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  #116  
Old 03.01.2021, 09:57
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Re: how many think Johnson has done a good job with The Deal?

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Your post doesn't make sense. What exactly are you surprised by... that a fictional film, loosely based on the actual history of the English doing their level best to conquer the Scots, stirred up feelings of Scottish national pride and resentment towards the English? Braveheart may not have been a documentary, but the history of what the English actually did during those times is well known and the film did an amazing job of stirring that passion.
Well, speaking as an actress I am surprised that such a film which was very, very loosely indeed, based on facts could have such an effect. Remember,Hollywood is there just to entertain.
From what I know of history the English have also any amount of reasons to resent the Scottish, who in conjunction with the French attacked them many times. History is never just black and white.
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  #117  
Old 03.01.2021, 10:01
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Re: how many think Johnson has done a good job with The Deal?

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Well, speaking as an actress I am surprised that such a film which was very, very loosely indeed, based on facts could have such an effect. Remember,Hollywood is there just to entertain.
From what I know of history the English have also any amount of reasons to resent the Scottish, who in conjunction with the French attacked them many times. History is never just black and white.
I find your post hard to believe. If you are genuinely an actress and can't understand how a movie can evoke strong passions, such as national pride, when dealing with evocative topics that matter to a lot of people then I think you have just resoundingly failed the entry-level job interview because that's what many movies have been doing on a regular basis for around a century.

EDIT - Anyway this is getting way off topic...

Last edited by Chuff; 03.01.2021 at 10:20.
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  #118  
Old 03.01.2021, 10:40
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Re: how many think Johnson has done a good job with The Deal?

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Perhaps - but somewhat different for an experienced high paid professional vs a new graduate. Either way it doesn't make the system right.

From my observation in big pharma it seems that they are able to hire non-Eu people pretty easily.
After reading a few posts of yours here I would have said you almost make Brexit sound like a move towards a better world and all that jazz, but I know better....
While I get what you're saying because as non-EUs we've been treated similarly to your wife years ago, I do not think Brexit will make things less difficult for other people. I think many have voted for Brexit out of their own frustrations and resentments but they didn't really think it through. It's them who should be worried about not random people in the wide, large world. I'd be more worried about my rights and the red tape I'd have to deal with from now on if I wanted to live or work or study or do business anywhere within EU. Some countries decided to join a group where they granted each other similar rights, well, they obviously treat the rest of the world a bit differently because the rest of the world treats them....a bit differently. I think it was/is only logical and a natural consequence of the EU treaties and standardisation in EU.
Maybe EU will see some reforms and won't function within the same legislative frame in a few decades, who knows. But that's not a concern for the time being. I still have no definitive idea whether Brexit is good or bad (or both) and/or for whom exactly. Time will tell. But it's high time most people accept it's a done deal and try to move on......imo.

@OP, to summarise: it's too early to say anything. I am guessing most people have no idea what Boris has negotiated for them.

Last edited by greenmount; 03.01.2021 at 22:40. Reason: typos and grammar
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  #119  
Old 03.01.2021, 11:51
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Re: how many think Johnson has done a good job with The Deal?

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As far as university goes outside of language students there's not much interest to be honest. Many (probably most, but I can find anything definitive) courses don't allow it.

Mine certainly didn't.

There's more interest in the US and Canada for obvious reasons (language) - see https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.tel...ort-finds/amp/

Essentially we weren't participating at anywhere near the level required to get value for money - see https://facts4eu.org/news/2019_jan_erasmus#

I'm not blaming the scheme for that - but the fact remains that the cost per head was extremely high
Erasmus cost about £13,000 per year for each student that took part. Most people of a working class background will never have even heard of it, yet were paying for more privileged students to take part through their taxes.

Probably also a large factor as to why Brexit happened in the first place. The language barrier meant the right exercise free movement was only ever academic for most because of the lack of other European languages.
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  #120  
Old 03.01.2021, 12:45
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Re: how many think Johnson has done a good job with The Deal?

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Remember,Hollywood is there just to entertain.
Yeah right. Dont forget also spreading the gospel about wokeness and promoting Liberty Guns Beer and Titties.
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