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  #161  
Old 04.01.2021, 18:00
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Re: how many think Johnson has done a good job with The Deal?

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And you think this is reflective of Britain as a whole society ? Genuinely, you believe we all (or the main majority of the citizens) think in this fashion ? It's really a sad situation if so.
I'm just saying this is the world average. If you're nicer than the average or the British as a whole society are nicer than the world average, congrats. Albeit, that doesn't change the rest of the world. So, not vitriol, just average behavior.
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  #162  
Old 04.01.2021, 18:01
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Re: how many think Johnson has done a good job with The Deal?

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I doubt if we've become increasingly sensitive, but constant moaning about "the British" whatever that even means, is tiresome. I don't know what your nationality is but I suspect that you don't like being lumped in with all your countryfolk and hearing that you are all this or that. If you have an individual or an organisation to criticise, go right ahead. Absolutely fine. But I don't like millions of people being tarred with the same brush, whether that's a particular nationality or race or gender or anything else. It's lazy and unethical. Above all, it's usually utter bollocks in any case.
Yes, and above all, I find it disheartening that there is clearly actual pleasure when Britain fails - people want us to fall short. I can't think of other countries, perhaps with the exception of the US, which has this same sentiment where people gain enjoyment out of us struggling at something.
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  #163  
Old 04.01.2021, 18:05
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Re: how many think Johnson has done a good job with The Deal?

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Back to the OP. The main question in my head currently on this Deal, is why, oh why- has the ERG rolled over and accepted this. The sort of thin, bad Deal they said would be very much worse than No Deal, and they would never ever accept - ever.

Then ... they roll over and accept it. Despite knowing that it favours the EU and not the UK (diverge from rules and we slap tariffs)- does not include services, etc, etc. Why?

Good article in Guardian on the subject here

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...ories-bad-deal
I told you they would. This isn't their idea of a bad idea - that would be one that allows for continued EU jurisprudence, freedom of movement etc. I said that one or two would rebel. I was also right about that. I'm not surprised that Redwood is one of the "Brexstremists". He makes me look like a federalist. He wouldn't vote for a deal unless we got Normandy returned to us lol.

I don't agree that it favours the EU. But then I'm a unilateralist free trader by mindset. I think too often people look from the point of view of businesses alone rather than the consumer, particularly for goods with inelastic demand. If the EU put tariffs on Scotch whisky for example - that would only hurt EU consumers.

I'm not sure how well you understand the Conservative Party if you seriously think we are no-dealers.

The Conservative Party will bend itself to any situation that involves beating Labour. No-deal would have looked terrible to the electorate. This deal is pretty popular once you leave the pages of the Guardian (which nobody reads outside of N1).

Last edited by HickvonFrick; 04.01.2021 at 18:17.
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  #164  
Old 04.01.2021, 18:06
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Re: how many think Johnson has done a good job with The Deal?

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I'm just saying this is the world average. If you're nicer than the average or the British as a whole society are nicer than the world average, congrats. Albeit, that doesn't change the rest of the world. So, not vitriol, just average behavior.
I think British society is about the same as most other western europe socities in terms of empathy and manner. Why it deserves special treatment for getting a kicking, I don't know.
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  #165  
Old 04.01.2021, 18:14
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Re: how many think Johnson has done a good job with The Deal?

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I think British society is about the same as most other western europe socities in terms of empathy and manner. Why it deserves special treatment for getting a kicking, I don't know.
Every now and then my nationalist streak pops up and likes to see England lose in things like sport and war.
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  #166  
Old 04.01.2021, 18:14
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Re: how many think Johnson has done a good job with The Deal?

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I think British society is about the same as most other western europe socities in terms of empathy and manner. Why it deserves special treatment for getting a kicking, I don't know.
Of course the bashing is undeserved, but that has never stopped people wishing Germany's downfall after taking 1 million + refugees. So, the bashing of the UK these days in the media (not on EF) is not special at all.
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  #167  
Old 04.01.2021, 18:19
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Re: how many think Johnson has done a good job with The Deal?

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Some of the Brits are increasingly sensitive these days. Maybe some of them need to be more of a pachyderm
Its interesting which nationalities seem to be the most Anglophobic at the minute. The Germans are as polite and reasonable as ever even if they find it hard to understand our mindset - in contrast to the Dutch who I thought we had a connection with ... can kind of see why people think there is a bluntness/arrogant streak in the Dutch culture - never really saw it before.

You work out who your friends are when you upset everyone.
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  #168  
Old 04.01.2021, 18:21
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Re: how many think Johnson has done a good job with The Deal?

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Of course the bashing is undeserved, but that has never stopped people wishing Germany's downfall after taking 1 million + refugees. So, the bashing of the UK these days in the media (not on EF) is not special at all.
Yes, i expect that I should also notice that its 'English' forum, so the UK gets a bit of a highlight but some people - not yourself please note and not the quote from Garbuko i was just using that as a kickoff point - genuinely seem to bask in Britain failing at things, which I find a bit strange. Of course I dont read their media so i am short sighted in my bias.

Which probably loosely brings us back towards the Deal, having gone off topic for a while, so lets let the OP get back to posting articles from the Guardian, Socialist Worker and Living Marxism, giving a balanced and broad view on the merits of the trade agreement.
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  #169  
Old 04.01.2021, 18:21
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Re: how many think Johnson has done a good job with The Deal?

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Of course the bashing is undeserved, but that has never stopped people wishing Germany's downfall after taking 1 million + refugees. So, the bashing of the UK these days in the media (not on EF) is not special at all.
I don't think there's much Germanophobia in the UK outside of a few crotchety pensioners still thinking about WW2 and football hooligans.

I'm a Brexiteer and love the country and I don't think I'm alone. We admire Germans for keeping the ship running, keeping fiscal discipline and if I'm honest for putting up with the French (the toxic political leadership - not the people, who are much better).

Last edited by HickvonFrick; 04.01.2021 at 18:40.
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  #170  
Old 04.01.2021, 18:22
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Re: how many think Johnson has done a good job with The Deal?

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Vitriol? Get some perspective, this is the stereotypical The Economist article during the last financial crisis in Greece: https://www.economist.com/finance-an...odus-chapter-1

It's totally OK to use a drawing of people drowning. In the article you even find the nice metaphors of contagion and outbreak as if a financial crisis were a virus. The Greek were depicted in the media as the origin of problem, not so different to Wuhan in China. At the time it was common to apply the Titanic metaphor to Spain and Italy. Well, no one is doing that in this thread, calm down. A thicker skin is needed to succeed in this world.
Wow! Who's being over-sensitive now?!

You're talking about one person's analysis from 8 years ago when Europe was up to its armpits in the Greece crisis, and there was a widespread view (especially in Greece itself) that the best solution for all would be for Greece to ditch the Euro. It's not even clear to me who wrote the piece or what their nationality was, but definitely wasn't some collaborative effort by the people of Britain.

As it happens, the analysis in the article is quite scholarly and not at all a hit piece, so I'm not sure what you're feeling so bruised about. The analysis was almost identical to something you could find in newspapers and journals all across Europe at the time, most of which, frankly, would have been of zero interest to the average person, whatever their nationality. It's something that has irked you for 8 years, clearly. But aim your resentment at the international class of economists and financial/business journalists, rather than at one arbitrary nation.

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Every now and then my nationalist streak pops up and likes to see England lose in things like sport and war.
What's your nationality, out of interest?

EDITED: Ah, Irish, I've just seen in your profile. That figures.
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  #171  
Old 04.01.2021, 18:28
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Re: how many think Johnson has done a good job with The Deal?

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I don't think there's much Germanophobia in the UK outside of a few crotchety pensioners still thinking about WW2 and football hooligans.

I'm a Brexiteer and love the country and I don't think I'm alone. We admire Germans for keeping the ship running, keeping fiscal discipline and if I'm honest for putting up with the French.
Britain and Germany have much more in common than most nations. Any country that values beer, sausages and football is fine in my book.
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  #172  
Old 04.01.2021, 18:31
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Re: how many think Johnson has done a good job with The Deal?

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What's your nationality, out of interest?
As per my extensive references, I'm Irish. As per the new EF standard of providing links of dubious origin to prove things, please see below.

https://www.englishforum.ch/members/165181-ato.html
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  #173  
Old 04.01.2021, 18:34
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Re: how many think Johnson has done a good job with The Deal?

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Britain and Germany have much more in common than most nations. Any country that values beer, sausages and football is fine in my book.
Beer, sausages and hockey.

Although no beer for me and I am.bored of saussages.
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  #174  
Old 04.01.2021, 18:35
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Re: how many think Johnson has done a good job with The Deal?

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Wow! Who's being over-sensitive now?!

You're talking about one person's analysis from 8 years ago when Europe was up to its armpits in the Greece crisis, and there was a widespread view (especially in Greece itself) that the best solution for all would be for Greece to ditch the Euro. It's not even clear to me who wrote the piece or what their nationality was, but definitely wasn't some collaborative effort by the people of Britain.

As it happens, the analysis in the article is quite scholarly and not at all a hit piece, so I'm not sure what you're feeling so bruised about. The analysis was almost identical to something you could find in newspapers and journals all across Europe at the time, most of which, frankly, would have been of zero interest to the average person, whatever their nationality. It's something that has irked you for 8 years, clearly. But aim your resentment at the international class of economists and financial/business journalists, rather than at one arbitrary nation.
I don't hate them, I like to read The Economist online and sometimes even buy the paper version for a long flight. I just presented them as example of average behavior. If someone cannot deal with this kind of metaphors or even media bias, well.....this person is not adapted to the modern world.

Remembering something from 8 years ago is not different to remembering history from centuries ago. Not resentment, just knowledge that brings valuable perspective to assess the dramas of every day.

PS. I have nothing against the UK, just telling it's their turn under the spotlight with all it's normal consequences including undeserved bashing. Don't worry, something else will come up and soon Brexit will be forgotten.
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  #175  
Old 04.01.2021, 18:35
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Re: how many think Johnson has done a good job with The Deal?

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As per my extensive references, I'm Irish. As per the new EF standard of providing links of dubious origin to prove things, please see below.

https://www.englishforum.ch/members/165181-ato.html
TBH with the absolutely disgraceful way the UK has treated IE historically I understand why we aren't in your good books.
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  #176  
Old 04.01.2021, 18:39
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Re: how many think Johnson has done a good job with The Deal?

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TBH with the absolutely disgraceful way the UK has treated IE historically I understand why we aren't in your good books.
In honesty beyond sports and jokes I've not much of a positive/negative opinion on the UK. My concerns are what will happen to Ireland as the UK has been the main trading partner, as well as the North kicking off again.
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  #177  
Old 04.01.2021, 18:45
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Re: how many think Johnson has done a good job with The Deal?

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In honesty beyond sports and jokes I've not much of a positive/negative opinion on the UK. My concerns are what will happen to Ireland as the UK has been the main trading partner, as well as the North kicking off again.
Its interesting comparing the typical IE view of England (not dissimilar to the above) with the Scottish view (vitriol), given that we've genocidally murdered a decent % of the Irish population throughout the centuries and done absolutely nothing to upset the Scots in the past 700 years and even taken flak for something we had no significant role in (highland clearances).

Incidentally it was also the primarily the Scots rather than the English that treated Ulster as a colony but we've seen to taken the blame for that too.

Last edited by HickvonFrick; 04.01.2021 at 19:01.
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  #178  
Old 04.01.2021, 18:49
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Re: how many think Johnson has done a good job with The Deal?

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Britain and Germany have much more in common than most nations. Any country that values beer, sausages and football is fine in my book.
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But I don't like millions of people being tarred with the same brush, whether that's a particular nationality or race or gender or anything else. It's lazy and unethical. Above all, it's usually utter bollocks in any case.

So, is it a British trait to be contradicting oneself or this is a personality thing?
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  #179  
Old 04.01.2021, 18:49
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Re: how many think Johnson has done a good job with The Deal?

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Its interesting which nationalities seem to be the most Anglophobic at the minute. The Germans are as polite and reasonable as ever even if they find it hard to understand our mindset - in contrast to the Dutch who I thought we had a connection with ... can kind of see why people think there is a bluntness/arrogant streak in the Dutch culture - never really saw it before.

You work out who your friends are when you upset everyone.
I have the opposite impression.

I know several Dutch people who used to be quite dismissive of anything British, seeing in Britain nothing but the long arm of the negative side of America, a meddling and warmongering nation without a moral compass. But since Brexit they have become very pro British and are constantly bemoaning how Dutch politicians don't have the balls to do the same and are predicting Holland will go down the drain while Britain will go from success to success.
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  #180  
Old 04.01.2021, 18:58
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Re: how many think Johnson has done a good job with The Deal?

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I have the opposite impression.

I know several Dutch people who used to be quite dismissive of anything British, seeing in Britain nothing but the long arm of the negative side of America, a meddling and warmongering nation without a moral compass. But since Brexit they have become very pro British and are constantly bemoaning how Dutch politicians don't have the balls to do the same and are predicting Holland will go down the drain while Britain will go from success to success.
Good to see that my previously positive experience of the Dutch is not wrong.
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