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  #181  
Old 11.01.2021, 19:30
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Re: Cancel Culture

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I am talking here about what I think, I don't care about the USA or their laws. In a healthy society everyone's voice should be heard and also be open to ridicule. Being offended are not reasons to shut down anyone's voice.
That healthy society is just a dream, you have to consider the cultural and regulatory baggage of centuries in any existing society. You may ridicule the establishment, I do too, but this humorous derision does not make it go away.
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  #182  
Old 11.01.2021, 20:07
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Re: Cancel Culture

The bad news is that if you buy your Trump Organization branded bath bombs and scented candles, (I canĎt even.....) that Shopify store is closed.

Cancel Culture.
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  #183  
Old 11.01.2021, 20:13
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Re: Cancel Culture

Good!

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  #184  
Old 11.01.2021, 20:19
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Re: Cancel Culture

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Good!

This is all going to backfire spectacularly. We can forget healing the nation, you canít de-platform your way out of chaos!
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  #185  
Old 11.01.2021, 20:27
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Re: Cancel Culture

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That healthy society is just a dream, you have to consider the cultural and regulatory baggage of centuries in any existing society. You may ridicule the establishment, I do too, but this humorous derision does not make it go away.
I don't know. I grew up in this official retorics promoting passive or sceptical approach, and then one day everything was over. And commies in jails. So..never say never. Even the fact that there are vested interests and a lot of cash and power distributed certain way, doesn't mean it can't change: DT, Brexit...etc. Even platforms and giants like Apple, Google pretending that they are governments. I don't think that the real governments will let them for long. Merkel did good.
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  #186  
Old 11.01.2021, 20:27
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Re: Cancel Culture

A bigger list here:
https://edition.cnn.com/2021/01/10/b...ons/index.html
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  #187  
Old 11.01.2021, 20:31
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Re: Cancel Culture

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This is all going to backfire spectacularly. We can forget healing the nation, you can’t de-platform your way out of chaos!
You have not been paying attention. Do you know how much was lost because of temporary import duties for steel and aluminum. Ask Ford and GM. Do you remember the trade war with China? Ask to all CEOs affected by the incertitude caused by Trump.

The spectacular backfire already happened, we're witnessing it right now. Live feed from the WH



PS. please note hyenas is not a compliment.
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  #188  
Old 11.01.2021, 20:46
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Re: Cancel Culture

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I saw this explanation on Twitter, and it makes sense to me....

Imagine Twitter (etc) is a baker and Trump is a gay themed wedding cake. The baker can refuse to make the cake.
User's tweets are not a product of Twitter, likewise for other platforms; this is also the reasoning used when Section 230 was put in place. It releases platforms like FB, Twitter, YT, etc, free from responsibility for the content on their platform. Yet the SM keep switching to the position that they do bear responsibility for the content nonetheless whenever it pleases them.

It's either or. Either the platforms have responsibility, in which case they can be sued and have the right to deny publication (including cancelling Trump), in which case Section 230 needs to be removed, or Section 230 applies and they have no such right at all.

Given their importance in today's world that's no trivial issue. And whichever the outcome, that doesn't mean they have the right to suppress competition, which the removal of Parler can be seen as - another aspect that needs regulating.

At any rate this can't be the platform's decision, whether they're profit-driven or not, this needs regulation by the lawgiver.

The same applies to the algorithms that steer users to any kind of content that will keep them on the platform. The more this other content is offensive the longer users will remain online and generate ad revenue. Howerver this also seems to be the main driver behind the generating of the infamous online bubbles. This unhealthy consequence will persist unless the lawgiver regulates their removal, if it can be done.

ETA:
This doesn't apply, book publisher aren't protected by Section 230.
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Here’s another example....

Simon and Schuster cancelled Senator Josh Hawley’s book contract (he’s the senator from Missouri who led the objection to the Pennsylvania vote) .

Last edited by Urs Max; 11.01.2021 at 21:31.
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  #189  
Old 11.01.2021, 20:58
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Re: Cancel Culture

I've not read the entire thread but my view, from someone whom Trump followers would regard as a pathetic liberal, is that banning Trump from Twitter is not a good move.

Yes, Trump is a horrible man whose words and actions very likely incited the mob to storm the Capitol. That's undeniable. But cancel culture is just as corrosive as Trump culture IMO. Cancelling Trump doesn't airbrush Trumpism, and is certain only to embolden his supporters.

The big question is who guards the guards? Now that Trump has been deemed unacceptable by the Twitter gods in San Francisco, we wait to see who's next. As one example, it's already deemed outrageous to ask questions of the Black Lives Matter leadership and tactics, with social media pile-ons awarded to anyone daring to ask such questions. How long before they join the banned list?

So for me it's the old 'thin end of the wedge' argument. The assault on the Capitol provoked much soul-searching about the need to preserve democracy at all costs. Trump, I'm sorry to say, is one of those 'costs'. Removing his access to social media actually weakens democracy, but wrongly pretends to strengthen it.
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  #190  
Old 11.01.2021, 20:59
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Re: Cancel Culture

It cracks me up how the most divisive of all people now constantly talk about healing and unity.
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  #191  
Old 11.01.2021, 21:09
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Re: Cancel Culture

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You have not been paying attention. Do you know how much was lost because of temporary import duties for steel and aluminum. Ask Ford and GM. Do you remember the trade war with China? Ask to all CEOs affected by the incertitude caused by Trump.

The spectacular backfire already happened, we're witnessing it right now. Live feed from the WH



PS. please note hyenas is not a compliment.
CEOs only have one vote, like everyone else, that's the problem.

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It cracks me up how the most divisive of all people now constantly talk about healing and unity.
For the most part it's ironic, because it's already clear that there is zero intention from either side to heal and move on.
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  #192  
Old 11.01.2021, 21:14
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Re: Cancel Culture

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CEOs only have one vote, like everyone else, that's the problem.

For the most part it's ironic, because it's already clear that there is zero intention from either side to heal and move on.
CEOs sort of have more than one vote, in the sense that Citizens United (Supreme Court case) essentially determined that corporations are people. That's what has led to all these corporate super PACs.

Agree on the last bit. Ds are talking about healing, and I am sure some mean it, but not all do. Never waste a good crisis and all that.
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  #193  
Old 11.01.2021, 21:18
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Re: Cancel Culture

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A lot of people are going to be super unhappy with West Coast high tech as the de facto arbiter of free speech
Elon Musk gets it. Though I must say, seeing all the alt-righters imploring Elon Musk to be their saviour is quite funny!!
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  #194  
Old 11.01.2021, 21:23
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Re: Cancel Culture

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Elon Musk gets it. Though I must say, seeing all the alt-righters imploring Elon Musk to be their saviour is quite funny!!
Welcome Elon Musk to the EF. Hope you make new friends here and spend enjoyable time. If you have any questions how to survive on salary 120k in “Swiss”, pls don’t hesitate to simply ask.

https://www.facebook.com/1658478670/...254699282/?d=n
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  #195  
Old 11.01.2021, 21:50
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Re: Cancel Culture

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That healthy society is just a dream, you have to consider the cultural and regulatory baggage of centuries in any existing society. You may ridicule the establishment, I do too, but this humorous derision does not make it go away.
Exactly.

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Ouchboy/RufusB

I am talking here about what I think, I don't care about the USA or their laws. In a healthy society everyone's voice should be heard and also be open to ridicule. Being offended are not reasons to shut down anyone's voice.

Every debate these days is contaminated by Trump. I am for free speech, but people automatically assume that I must be Trump supporter or right wing!

Btw, I don't have an account on Twitter, FB,TikTok, Grinder, Tinder etc. Never had and never will, not for any political reasons, but simply because I find the whole concept silly.

And that is all well and good. And in a healthy society I would agree with you. But online fora are not particularly healthy. The folk feeding and being fed rot destroy things further. I don't think we are talking mere offence here witg regards Trump. He incited crime. People died.

As I've said before, I'm baffled by the seeming alternative reality some folk present. We saw what happened. Saw a lone policeman draw potentially violent interlopers away from the Senate hall. People with weapons and zip ties and commemorative sweatshirts because, as that Elizabeth with the face full of mace said, they wanted to be part of "the revolution".

I really would like to know what some of you were watching if not this.
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  #196  
Old 11.01.2021, 22:29
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Re: Cancel Culture

Speaking of cancel culture, Iím sitting here reading an article about Michael Wendler, a German celebrity who was kicked out of the DSDS jury for publicly comparing Covid-19 with the Holocaust. The show is still being broadcasted with Wendler being photoshopped out through the use of fuzzy pixels.

Now thatís a literal example of cancel culture.
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  #197  
Old 11.01.2021, 22:39
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Re: Cancel Culture

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Speaking of cancel culture, Iím sitting here reading an article about Michael Wendler, a German celebrity who was kicked out of the DSDS jury for publicly comparing Covid-19 with the Holocaust. The show is still being broadcasted with Wendler being photoshopped out through the use of fuzzy pixels.

Now thatís a literal example of cancel culture.
He is a total clown. The show is a disgrace with or without him, or with him pixeled.

He compared the Covid restrictions in Germany to being in a "KZ" (concentration camp), the term for labour and extermination camps run by the Nazis. For some reason, Germans don't tolerate stuff like this.
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  #198  
Old 11.01.2021, 22:51
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Re: Cancel Culture

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For some reason, Germans don't tolerate stuff like this.
They learned their lesson and don't want to forget it. I respect Germany for that.
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  #199  
Old 11.01.2021, 23:01
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Re: Cancel Culture

The same Senator Hawley who now complains about his book deal being withdrawn as "woke cancel culture" in December:


Last edited by komsomolez; 11.01.2021 at 23:20.
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  #200  
Old 11.01.2021, 23:29
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Re: Cancel Culture

Lots of censorship - bad.
No censorship - equally bad, if not worse.
There must be a balance for the society to function and it was the right moment to apply a bit of censorship.

Now, if you excuse me, I'm just gonna cancel this thread for myself.
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