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  #301  
Old 14.01.2021, 18:54
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Re: Cancel Culture

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No I've not, but if you've missed them, it's wrong because:

They shouldn't be removing a website/social media platform in a joint effort as this is undermining competition.

They are in no position to judge the moderation on another platform, Especially considering that Facebook/Twitter are rife with hateful content and misinformation. That has resulted in far more harm than anything posted on Parler.

It undermines freedom of speech, freedom of the internet and the laws of the land.

You don't have to be a Trump supporter to find these actions by Big Tech alarming. If both those famous Trump allies Angela Merkel and Alexei Navalny have expressed their concern then I struggle to see how anyone who considers themselves a liberal is having a hard time seeing this!?
I found Rufus' analogy of a refusal to have sex very clear, but it didn't seem to explain the matter to you. So I'm going to try with another, set in a business context (which that of Rufus was not).

Let's just imagine that I set up a new ticket-selling company in post-Covid Switzerland. I start off selling tickets to the local theatre shows I know, bit by bit the movie companies start to see on my platform, and then rock concerts, car shows and museums. Great, this is working well. People like my platform and flock to it, not only in Switzerland, but worldwide, especially when I give them space to comment on the tickets.

It's my company and I make rules. I tell anyone who wants to join that I don't guarantee to provide the service consistently and that, if ever there were to be down-time they would have no recourse to me for any losses they may suffer as a result, that they can't use my service to contact emergency services, that they have to behave according to the laws of the country in which they are as well as according to my set of behaviour rules and moreover that I can unilaterally terminate their membership with my service, at any time. Most people click on the "I accept" box, without even having read those Terms and Conditions. My company grows.

Bit by bit, my employees and others refer me to posts with disturbing content, seeming to be outworkings of an increasingly irrational and dangerous person. I monitor this for a while. I issue warnings. I comment some of that person's posts as a warning to others that the claims he makes are disputed. At some point, I decide the person has gone way too far, is spewing out wild claims and inciting to violence, that that in itself is dangerous and I want no part of it, and that besides, monitoring all the danger is costing me too much, so I invoke my right to terminate the membership and throw that crazy person out.

Now, since my business idea was evidently working, several other companies also got on with it and built services along more or less the same lines.

Amazon liked my ticket-selling company, as did google. They liked working with me and when those other companies approached them, they agreed to work with them, too. Profit all around.

Then they heard about the fact that I had blocked a person from my company whom I had considered dangerous. "What?" they asked me, over lunch, "was it that bad?" and they went back to look and agreed it was. "Well," they say, "just as well you blocked him, or we'd probably have cut you off from working with us." Prost.

After a few days, we hear that the crazy person and his friends are over at one of the other, smaller ticket-selling companies, posting weird and disconcerting things in the comments there. Now the google and amazon folks have a look to see wether it's as a bad as what happened on my site. It is. So they call up the smaller ticket-selling companies and say: "Hey, that stuff is ugly and dangerous. If you don't block those posters immediately, we will get divorced from you."

The smaller company dudes say: "Whatever." And they just carry on letting crazy and his friends carry on posting dangerous, violent craziness.
So google and amazon kick them out.

That's all.
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  #302  
Old 14.01.2021, 19:04
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Re: Cancel Culture

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I found Rufus' analogy of a refusal to have sex very clear, but it didn't seem to explain the matter to you. So I'm going to try with another, set in a business context (which that of Rufus was not).

Let's just imagine that I set up a new ticket-selling company in post-Covid Switzerland. I start off selling tickets to the local theatre shows I know, bit by bit the movie companies start to see on my platform, and then rock concerts, car shows and museums. Great, this is working well. People like my platform and flock to it, not only in Switzerland, but worldwide, especially when I give them space to comment on the tickets.

It's my company and I make rules. I tell anyone who wants to join that I don't guarantee to provide the service consistently and that, if ever there were to be down-time they would have no recourse to me for any losses they may suffer as a result, that they can't use my service to contact emergency services, that they have to behave according to the laws of the country in which they are as well as according to my set of behaviour rules and moreover that I can unilaterally terminate their membership with my service, at any time. Most people click on the "I accept" box, without even having read those Terms and Conditions. My company grows.

Bit by bit, my employees and others refer me to posts with disturbing content, seeming to be outworkings of an increasingly irrational and dangerous person. I monitor this for a while. I issue warnings. I comment some of that person's posts as a warning to others that the claims he makes are disputed. At some point, I decide the person has gone way too far, is spewing out wild claims and inciting to violence, that that in itself is dangerous and I want no part of it, and that besides, monitoring all the danger is costing me too much, so I invoke my right to terminate the membership and throw that crazy person out.

Now, since my business idea was evidently working, several other companies also got on with it and built services along more or less the same lines.

Amazon liked my ticket-selling company, as did google. They liked working with me and when those other companies approached them, they agreed to work with them, too. Profit all around.

Then they heard about the fact that I had blocked a person from my company whom I had considered dangerous. "What?" they asked me, over lunch, "was it that bad?" and they went back to look and agreed it was. "Well," they say, "just as well you blocked him, or we'd probably have cut you off from working with us." Prost.

After a few days, we hear that the crazy person and his friends are over at one of the other, smaller ticket-selling companies, posting weird and disconcerting things in the comments there. Now the google and amazon folks have a look to see wether it's as a bad as what happened on my site. It is. So they call up the smaller ticket-selling companies and say: "Hey, that stuff is ugly and dangerous. If you don't block those posters immediately, we will get divorced from you."

The smaller company dudes say: "Whatever." And they just carry on letting crazy and his friends carry on posting dangerous, violent craziness.
So google and amazon kick them out.

That's all.
Simples indeed.
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  #303  
Old 14.01.2021, 19:18
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Re: Cancel Culture

This gossip is real good, the people behind The Pirate Bay just mock the incompetence of Parler people:

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the pirate bay, the most censored website in the world, started by kids, run by people with problems with alcohol, drugs and money, still is up after almost 2 decades. Parlor and gab etc have all the money around but no skills or mindset. Embarrassing.

The most ironic thing is that TPBs enemies include not just the US government but also many European and the Russian one. Compared to gab/parlor which is supported by the current president of the US and probably liked by the Russian one too
https://www.theregister.com/2021/01/...icises_parler/
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  #304  
Old 14.01.2021, 23:11
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Re: Cancel Culture

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They aren't judging a competitor. They are refusing to host an app. If Parler etc was a true competitor they wouldn't need other platforms to launch it.


Twitter is a private company.


Try this:

Person A wants to sleep with Person B.

B says no. Doesn't actually need to give a reason because their body, their choice etc but they do: they don't like A's politics. Or shoes. Or haircut. Whatever.

A takes exception and says "that's discriminatory because those things are irrelevant to the fact that i want to sleep with you".

Makes no damn difference. The reasons were provided by B to be polite etc. All they needed to do was say No. Because their body, their choice.

A monopoly decision, if you will, but still final.

End of.
Try this:

Person A wants to eat at Person B's restaurant.

B says no. Doesn't actually need to give a reason because his restaurant. his choice etc but he does: he doesn't like A's politics. Or shoes. Or haircut. Or color of the skin. Or BLM affiliation. Whatever.

A takes exception and says "that's discriminatory because those things are irrelevant to the fact that i want to eat at your place".

Makes no damn difference. The reasons were provided by B to be polite etc. All he needed to do was say No. Because his restaurant, his choice.

A monopoly decision, if you will, but still final.

Restaurant is a private company.
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  #305  
Old 14.01.2021, 23:14
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Re: Cancel Culture

Your point? Most restaurants reserve the right not to serve customers for whatever reason.
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  #306  
Old 14.01.2021, 23:21
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Re: Cancel Culture

Try refusing serving black guy who invokes BLM in California.
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  #307  
Old 14.01.2021, 23:35
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Re: Cancel Culture

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Your point? Most restaurants reserve the right not to serve customers for whatever reason.
Places do not have the right to refuse for whatever reason (at least not in the U.K. - see this case) Gay snub Cornish B&B owners lose Supreme Court appeal http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-25119158
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  #308  
Old 15.01.2021, 00:51
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Re: Cancel Culture

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Try refusing serving black guy who invokes BLM in California.
But the Trump/Twitter thing isn't about race or ethnicity but you know that. You are bringing more facets in just to try and prove the point.


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Places do not have the right to refuse for whatever reason (at least not in the U.K. - see this case) Gay snub Cornish B&B owners lose Supreme Court appeal http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-25119158
Sexual orientation/sex/ ethnicity are, I believe, protected under law. Being an arsehole who encourages violent action is not.

Non-discriminatory reasons are permitted in the UK.

Waving a gun around, Sir? I'm afraid we don't have any tables.
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  #309  
Old 15.01.2021, 01:10
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Re: Cancel Culture

Show me an BLM account inciting violence that was banned.
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  #310  
Old 15.01.2021, 01:18
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Re: Cancel Culture

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Show me an BLM account inciting violence that was banned.
Why?

One with 80 mil followers?

I can find you a few women banned for saying a bloke is a bloke. Would that help?
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  #311  
Old 15.01.2021, 01:24
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Re: Cancel Culture

Nope.
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  #312  
Old 16.01.2021, 14:16
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Re: Cancel Culture

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Your point? Most restaurants reserve the right not to serve customers for whatever reason.
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Places do not have the right to refuse for whatever reason (at least not in the U.K. - see this case) Gay snub Cornish B&B owners lose Supreme Court appeal http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-25119158
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Sexual orientation/sex/ ethnicity are, I believe, protected under law. Being an arsehole who encourages violent action is not.

Non-discriminatory reasons are permitted in the UK.

Waving a gun around, Sir? I'm afraid we don't have any tables.
I was making the point "that for whatever reason" is not the case.
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  #313  
Old 16.01.2021, 15:08
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Re: Cancel Culture

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  #314  
Old 16.01.2021, 19:51
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Re: Cancel Culture

Donald Trump's accounts appear to have been restored on Facebook and Instagram (although Facebook did say they he was only temporarily suspended). I think this story is a lot bigger and more important than the President's ban but an interesting development none the less.
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Old 16.01.2021, 22:19
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Re: Cancel Culture

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Donald Trump's accounts appear to have been restored on Facebook and Instagram (although Facebook did say they he was only temporarily suspended). I think this story is a lot bigger and more important than the President's ban but an interesting development none the less.
I never would have believed that time can fly this quickly ...




... so much hate and incitement to violence, this (on on FB) is truly unacceptable:



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Old 16.01.2021, 22:58
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Re: Cancel Culture

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Show me an BLM account inciting violence that was banned.
All the ones i saw were about protecting oneself from police violence, itís shocking to see the difference in policing when a bunch of yíall queda assembled for a protest, itís almost like they made evident what the blm protesters have been saying all along, racism in America is institutional
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Old 17.01.2021, 16:36
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Re: Cancel Culture

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All the ones i saw were about protecting oneself from police violence, itís shocking to see the difference in policing when a bunch of yíall queda assembled for a protest, itís almost like they made evident what the blm protesters have been saying all along, racism in America is institutional
With the capitol event there's one white shot dead by police in one event. With the BLM protests and riots, how many blacks were shot dead by police on average?

So which was deadlier for which ethnicity?
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  #318  
Old 18.01.2021, 12:01
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Re: Cancel Culture

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I never would have believed that time can fly this quickly ...




... so much hate and incitement to violence, this (on on FB) is truly unacceptable:



It's not that long ago that the leader of the opposition in the UK (Jeremy Corbyn) was a member of an anti-semitic group on Facebook. It's remarkable what these guardians of ethics and social responsibility allow on their platforms!

Ultimately, this is the biggest issue we face, quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
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Old 18.01.2021, 12:08
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Re: Cancel Culture

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It's not that long ago that the leader of the opposition in the UK (Jeremy Corbyn) was a member of an anti-semitic group on Facebook. It's remarkable what these guardians of ethics and social responsibility allow on their platforms!

Ultimately, this is the biggest issue we face, quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
FB will be cancelled imho for attention engineering and causing addiction (and something else, but I want to avoid being impolite).
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  #320  
Old 18.01.2021, 12:09
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Re: Cancel Culture

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It's not that long ago that the leader of the opposition in the UK (Jeremy Corbyn) was a member of an anti-semitic group on Facebook. It's remarkable what these guardians of ethics and social responsibility allow on their platforms!

Ultimately, this is the biggest issue we face, quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
People in the US don't care that much about UK's politicians. You're severely overestimating their average interest for topics outside the US.

This is something real funny of this thread, we care a lot about Trump and social media companies, while they couldn't care less about our opinion. I guess we need to stop for a while a think about parasocial interactions.
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