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  #381  
Old 16.04.2021, 21:42
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Re: Cancel Culture

I agree that Zuck was not in his dorm room thinking about manipulating politicians, but the NSA figured out a long time ago that IBM/MS/Google/FB/Twitter could do a huge part of their job for them.

FB was not flush with cash in its early days. It was competing against a myriad of firms as Social Media was evolving. I remember when I created my account and basically left MySpace. I also remember when FB stopped seeming to care about money and their business model. Everything pointed to a deal with the NSA. Need to build a new server farm close to a major internet node in a foreign country? Just do it, Mark!

Ever wonder how Twitter loses money just about every year but never goes out of business? Or how Alphabet can afford to let YouTube and many other products lose huge amounts of money? The list goes on.

Things are not always what they seem.

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I don’t think facebook was made with the endgame of manipulating politicians, that it happened is true, but i don’t think zuckerberg sat down with a grand plan, he literally just wrote a website using relatively common code techniques, was in the right place at the right time in a place full of influencing people, and, just, it’s really not that clever in terms of awesome software engineering challemges
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  #382  
Old 03.08.2021, 16:34
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Re: Cancel Culture

Cancel culture arrives in EF.
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  #383  
Old 03.08.2021, 16:37
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Re: Cancel Culture

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I remember reading not long ago that Trump is or will be creating his own social media network. I wonder if that site will kick people off for posting anything that is anti-Trump or that doesn't conform with Trump's narrative.
Seems they have not yet resolved that challenge.
  #384  
Old 03.08.2021, 17:38
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Re: Cancel Culture

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I agree that Zuck was not in his dorm room thinking about manipulating politicians, but the NSA figured out a long time ago that IBM/MS/Google/FB/Twitter could do a huge part of their job for them.

FB was not flush with cash in its early days. It was competing against a myriad of firms as Social Media was evolving. I remember when I created my account and basically left MySpace. I also remember when FB stopped seeming to care about money and their business model. Everything pointed to a deal with the NSA. Need to build a new server farm close to a major internet node in a foreign country? Just do it, Mark!

Ever wonder how Twitter loses money just about every year but never goes out of business? Or how Alphabet can afford to let YouTube and many other products lose huge amounts of money? The list goes on.

Things are not always what they seem.
I remember in the early days of Amazon how they returned a loss year after year.

There was even a joke that the domain amazon. com was going to be taken away from them and replaced by amazon.org because they were a non-profit.

The investors who put up with that so patiently must have had nerves of steel and faith in something that the rest of us didn't see.

But history proved them right and look how many people are saying, if only I had bought Amazon back then.
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  #385  
Old 25.04.2022, 20:15
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Re: Cancel Culture

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This is why we shouldn't be too concerned with what Twitter and Facebook have done. Ultimately I feel it will go down as one of the biggest own goals in history. Aside from the 4 billion that has been wiped off Twitter's value today, there will be many tech savvy entrepreneurs on the right looking to exploit these developments.
Wowsers! Never mind tech savvy, just deep pockets required! Sounds like Elon Musk is about to be announced as the new owner of Twitter. He stepped up his interest due to his concerns over freedom of speech and over censorship.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-61215197

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Elon Musk gets it. Though I must say, seeing all the alt-righters imploring Elon Musk to be their saviour is quite funny!!
Never thought it would actually happen

Still, many comments on this thread saying Twitter is a private company that can do as it pleases. Still think the same?
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  #386  
Old 25.04.2022, 20:22
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Re: Cancel Culture

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Wowsers! Never mind tech savvy, just deep pockets required! Sounds like Elon Musk is about to be announced as the new owner of Twitter. He stepped up his interest due to his concerns over freedom of speech and over censorship.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-61215197



Never thought it would actually happen

Still, many comments on this thread saying Twitter is a private company that can do as it pleases. Still think the same?
Nothing to do with "cancel culture", but I believe we are at a point (long past actually) where social media needs to be regulated. Not for the issue of controlling content, but for the algorithms to spread it. And Musk is the last guy I want to be in control of companies like Twitter.
  #387  
Old 25.04.2022, 20:30
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Re: Cancel Culture

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Nothing to do with "cancel culture", but I believe we are at a point (long past actually) where social media needs to be regulated. Not for the issue of controlling content, but for the algorithms to spread it. And Musk is the last guy I want to be in control of companies like Twitter.
Regulation is going to happen anyway, wheels were set in motion when they banned Donald Trump. As I said at the time, with so much power you can't be removing world leaders without serious consequences. Behave like a publisher, get treated as a publisher. It'll be interesting to see how Elon Musk navigates what's coming.
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  #388  
Old 25.04.2022, 20:42
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Re: Cancel Culture

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Regulation is going to happen anyway, wheels were set in motion when they banned Donald Trump. As I said at the time, with so much power you can't be removing world leaders without serious consequences. Behave like a publisher, get treated as a publisher. It'll be interesting to see how Elon Musk navigates what's coming.
The same situation as when we buy cars on credit, "the bank" is the real owner. I don't think government regulations will matter more than banker's "suggestions" to ensure cash flow to pay the debt. Being a bit of a cynic, I don't expect any government interference until a significant part of the debt is paid. US government is not going to do something that hurts the banks. So, if this is what's really happening...expect twitter to be managed by bankers. If Mr. Musk strays a bit too much from the agreed path, early debt payment is triggered, same as car loan/leasing

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An April 20 Margin Loan Commitment Letter from Morgan Stanley Senior Funding, Inc., Bank of America, Barclays Bank plc, Canadian Imperial Bank of Commerce, MUFG Bank Ltd., Credit Suisse AG, BNP Paribas, Citibank, Deutsche Bank AG, Mizuho Bank, Ltd., Royal Bank of Canada and Societe Generale, for $12.5 billion.

An Equity Commitment Letter from Elon Musk covering the balance including fees and expenses, which is expected to be about $21 billion.

Musk is borrowing against his Tesla TSLA -1.1% shares, but with the bank putting a maximum loan to value ratio of 20% under the Margin Loan Commitment letter and a margin call level of 35%, the shares are unlikely to be sold out from under him which is likely why shares in Tesla weren’t pummeled (they were down 3.73% versus a 2.77% decline in the S&P 500
https://www.forbes.com/sites/derekba...h=16c9a7fc2213

PS. we'll find out how woke are bankers
  #389  
Old 25.04.2022, 20:48
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Re: Cancel Culture

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The same situation as when we buy cars on credit, "the bank" is the real owner. I don't think government regulations will matter more than banker's "suggestions" to ensure cash flow to pay the debt. Being a bit of a cynic, I don't expect any government interference until a significant part of the debt is paid. US government is not going to do something that hurts the banks. So, if this is what's really happening...expect twitter to be managed by bankers. If Mr. Musk strays a bit too much from the agreed path, early debt payment is triggered, same as car loan/leasing

https://www.forbes.com/sites/derekba...h=16c9a7fc2213

PS. we'll find out how woke are bankers
Indeed, short term we shouldn't see too much change. Longer term though, who knows?

FWIW I think regulation is the worst way to go although it's an inevitability now, on the other hand I think tech censorship has gotten out of control and needs to be wound in.

Best solution would be for everyone to grow up and stop calling for anything and everything they don't agree with to be banned!
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  #390  
Old 25.04.2022, 21:09
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Re: Cancel Culture

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Indeed, short term we shouldn't see too much change. Longer term though, who knows?

FWIW I think regulation is the worst way to go although it's an inevitability now, on the other hand I think tech censorship has gotten out of control and needs to be wound in.

Best solution would be for everyone to grow up and stop calling for anything and everything they don't agree with to be banned!
If Musk's bid is successful it will likely destroy Trump's social media venture "Truth Social" which was anyway struggling.

Stock tied to Donald Trump’s social media venture falls 18% after Twitter said to be nearing a deal with Musk
  #391  
Old 25.04.2022, 21:36
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Re: Cancel Culture

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Indeed, short term we shouldn't see too much change. Longer term though, who knows?

FWIW I think regulation is the worst way to go although it's an inevitability now, on the other hand I think tech censorship has gotten out of control and needs to be wound in.

Best solution would be for everyone to grow up and stop calling for anything and everything they don't agree with to be banned!
When it's about Mr. Musk oneself must ask: what is this guy pointing at in order to make me forget about X?

It seems this time X is the infamous 2018 tweet about Tesla being bought by Saudi Arabia Public Investment Fund. Since there seems to be no facts behind the tweet, the lie has interesting financial consequences. Text behind paywall, but audio available.

So, free speech and twitter are the least important here. Securities fraud is the real issue.

Quote:
Judge Rules Musk Go-Private Tweet False, Tesla Investors Say. Ruling gives shareholders key advantage heading toward trial. Billionaire, car maker face multibillion-dollar damage claims
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...?sref=iW3WrQuv

PS. I bet 2 beers Mr. Musk will try to buy a private settlement if the grip of the lawsuit gets tighter.
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  #392  
Old 26.04.2022, 12:28
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Re: Cancel Culture

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Wowsers! Never mind tech savvy, just deep pockets required! Sounds like Elon Musk is about to be announced as the new owner of Twitter. He stepped up his interest due to his concerns over freedom of speech and over censorship.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-61215197

Never thought it would actually happen

Still, many comments on this thread saying Twitter is a private company that can do as it pleases. Still think the same?
So, he has a new toy! First it was batteries. Then it was Mars. Then it was tunnels. now its..
  #393  
Old 26.04.2022, 13:35
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Re: Cancel Culture

And Matt Levine from Bloomberg is such a word whisperer

This is financial gossip and I love it, but I guess we should be talking about this somewhere else, not in the Cancel Culture thread. There you have it, Musk's advisers presented to lenders ideas on how twitter will be run after acquisition and how to boost revenue. Sorry, "free speech" is not something lenders care about.

Quote:
How Elon Musk will run Twitter, if he buys it, is essentially irrelevant to Twitter’s board and shareholders: If Musk buys Twitter, the shareholders will be cashed out and any profits or losses will be his problem. On the other hand it is very relevant to Musk’s financing sources: If Musk buys Twitter and runs it into the ground, the people who gave him money will lose money. So they don’t want that. Here is a Bloomberg News article from last week suggesting that he has a plan not to do that:

Musk’s advisers presented the billionaire’s investment thesis to potential lenders during a call [last] Monday. Some of the lenders saw a slide presentation offering Musk’s ideas around how Twitter’s business could be run, as well as its financial profile and how to boost revenue, said the people, who asked not to be identified as the details aren’t public.

Musk’s enthusiasm for the deal was also emphasized and he appeared on Zoom calls with some of the top lenders where he appeared engaged, some of the people said. …

Lenders were approached on Saturday, and pulled all-nighters as they rushed to get the deal together over the Easter and Passover break and into this week, people familiar with the process said. Most of the banks signed commitment letters Wednesday, which also happened to be April 20 or 4/20 -- a cannabis in-joke that Musk has often referenced. The details were made public the next day.

Morgan Stanley also coordinated calls between Musk’s family office and other lenders as they wrapped their heads around the numbers, the people said. A representative for Morgan Stanley declined to comment. Elon Musk didn’t immediately respond to a request for comment via his family office. …

Banks felt good about the deal because of Musk’s vision but also because Musk was willing to commit such a large amount of equity. The equity portion is currently more than 40% of the purchase price, but could be significantly higher, some of the people said.
https://www.bloomberg.com/account/ne...source=NLshare
  #394  
Old 26.04.2022, 14:16
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Re: Cancel Culture

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And Matt Levine from Bloomberg is such a word whisperer

This is financial gossip and I love it, but I guess we should be talking about this somewhere else, not in the Cancel Culture thread. There you have it, Musk's advisers presented to lenders ideas on how twitter will be run after acquisition and how to boost revenue. Sorry, "free speech" is not something lenders care about.

https://www.bloomberg.com/account/ne...source=NLshare
I think free speech is a large part of what contributes to Twitters success. It remains the de facto town square where people of differing views can communicate (although as a debating tool it's not very good). It's the reason why competitors haven't been able to match Twitter. If Elon Musk rediscover what made Twitter a great platform in the first place then I think the profits could follow.

Two issues I see that stand in the way see regulation, for example the so called "Online Safety Bill" that is currently in preparation in the UK and that I completely oppose, which will limit the moderation controls that can be loosened.

Second is demographical, Twitter like Facebook is approaching 20 years old. Young people aren't particularly attracted to it, grannies and grandads use these platforms, they're not cool. I was on a flight recently and a young girl next to me spent almost the entire time editing together a TikTok video. With growth and regular users static, I wonder if this isn't the real reason Elon Musk was brought on board?
  #395  
Old 26.04.2022, 14:22
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Re: Cancel Culture

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And Matt Levine from Bloomberg is such a word whisperer

This is financial gossip and I love it, but I guess we should be talking about this somewhere else, not in the Cancel Culture thread. There you have it, Musk's advisers presented to lenders ideas on how twitter will be run after acquisition and how to boost revenue. Sorry, "free speech" is not something lenders care about.

https://www.bloomberg.com/account/ne...source=NLshare
Seems this "free speech" will not be free in the financial sense

Google brought in $257 billion last year, Facebook brought in $117 billion — and Twitter did $5 billion.

I foresee some firings, including presumably the content moderation team, to improve the profitability plus some form of "pay to tweet" to increase the revenue.
  #396  
Old 26.04.2022, 15:17
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Re: Cancel Culture

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I think free speech is a large part of what contributes to Twitters success. It remains the de facto town square where people of differing views can communicate (although as a debating tool it's not very good). It's the reason why competitors haven't been able to match Twitter. If Elon Musk rediscover what made Twitter a great platform in the first place then I think the profits could follow.
As marton mentioned, regulating speech is quite profitable for google and facebook. Maybe free speech is what makes twitter yield lower revenue.

Also, twitter use is a problem in China. I'm waiting for the headlines of twitter sharing once again user data with Chinese police to crack down on opposition. Remember this:

Quote:
Facebook, WhatsApp, Twitter, Google and Telegram have all said they are "pausing" co-operation with requests for user information from the Hong Kong police.

Several countries have criticised China for imposing a new security law, which they say threatens the territory's long-standing autonomy.
https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-53308582

Of course, Mr. Musk is a great businessman and sharing user data with authorities to gain access to the Chinese market would be an awesome deal. Imagine if twitter gains something by suppressing criticism to Chinese government around the world. Not sure how freedom fits on this, but cash flow is cash flow.

All above could the hallucinations of an alcoholic consultant, or simply because facebook tried it first. Publicly they failed, but looking at their yearly revenue and still generating revenue in China through some resellers/subsidiaries...maybe it worked.

Quote:
Facebook 'made China censorship tool'
https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-38073949

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Second is demographical, Twitter like Facebook is approaching 20 years old. Young people aren't particularly attracted to it, grannies and grandads use these platforms, they're not cool. I was on a flight recently and a young girl next to me spent almost the entire time editing together a TikTok video. With growth and regular users static, I wonder if this isn't the real reason Elon Musk was brought on board?
Indeed, age is inevitable. If the 20 years old of facebook and twitter matter, the stereotypical 50+ YO divorced dad matters too.

facebook and tweeter skew male (~55%), but there's still some balance. Tesla is totally a sausage fest (~80% male customers). Now that you mentioned the young girl on your last flight, will Mr. Musk attract or show the door to her as customer? Because the guy is not going to shut up as the last twitter board/managers. Maybe that powerpoint Musk's advisers showed to bankers had 1 slide about "Mr. Musk will make an effort to not upset women".

Well, I'm enjoying the mud bath in the pig pen
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Old 26.04.2022, 17:14
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Re: Cancel Culture

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As marton mentioned, regulating speech is quite profitable for google and facebook. Maybe free speech is what makes twitter yield lower revenue.

Also, twitter use is a problem in China. I'm waiting for the headlines of twitter sharing once again user data with Chinese police to crack down on opposition. Remember this:


https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-53308582

Of course, Mr. Musk is a great businessman and sharing user data with authorities to gain access to the Chinese market would be an awesome deal. Imagine if twitter gains something by suppressing criticism to Chinese government around the world. Not sure how freedom fits on this, but cash flow is cash flow.
Google and Facebook have more facets to their businesses though whereas Twitter remains broadly what it was when it was first launched.

I think the fact that Tech Giants were/are willing to entertain talks and deals with dictators with dreadful human rights records just highlights the hypocrisy in matters like the Trump ban.

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Well, I'm enjoying the mud bath in the pig pen
Indeed, there is some grim satisfaction to be taken in watching some of the Twitter meltdowns of the past 24 hours!
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  #398  
Old 26.04.2022, 21:07
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Re: Cancel Culture

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I think the fact that Tech Giants were/are willing to entertain talks and deals with dictators with dreadful human rights records just highlights the hypocrisy in matters like the Trump ban.
The elephant in the room is that they left the accounts of outright terrorists open, including IS and Taliban.
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Old 26.04.2022, 21:21
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Re: Cancel Culture

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Indeed, short term we shouldn't see too much change. Longer term though, who knows?

FWIW I think regulation is the worst way to go although it's an inevitability now, on the other hand I think tech censorship has gotten out of control and needs to be wound in.

Best solution would be for everyone to grow up and stop calling for anything and everything they don't agree with to be banned!
Wake up at the back there! Regulation is more than inevitable, it is already in place.

The EU Digital Services Act and the Digital Markets Act which were politically approved in the last weeks go after social media companies’ moderation and safety policies.
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Old 26.04.2022, 21:53
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Re: Cancel Culture

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Indeed, there is some grim satisfaction to be taken in watching some of the Twitter meltdowns of the past 24 hours!
looking at the people who are making such reactions seems to show just how necessary the move was!
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