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  #61  
Old 10.01.2021, 13:22
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Re: Cancel Culture

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But we will never know whether Trumps alligations of voter fraud were true, as his complaints were dismissed outright without proper investigation. I mean you imagine the embaresment if voter fraud was discovered in the US ? Better not to look too closely...

That no evidence of fraud was found, and never properly investigated, does not mean it did not happen.
It was properly investigated on many levels. Here's Mitch McConnell actually explaining that:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VI8onTIu-F0
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  #62  
Old 10.01.2021, 13:23
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Re: Cancel Culture

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And so, with Facebook, Twitter deleting Trump... What are your thoughts about the media censoring those who can contribute?
It’s very simple your right to free speech does not include a right to insight racism, violence or an insurrection. When you sign up to a private network you agree to abide by a set of rules and the owners are well within their rights to turf you out if you fail to comply. Now the key word here is private, it means that the owners do not have to put up with your behavior. Now people who are banned from social media have legal avenues of recourse, which I’m pretty sure they are not going to take because they know dam well they are in the wrong..

Cancel Culture - a term used by people wishing to justify and maintain unacceptable behavior. And it needs to be called out for what it is.
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  #63  
Old 10.01.2021, 13:32
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Re: Cancel Culture

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There's actually nothing in Twitter T&Cs that say the number of followers impact on how tweets are judged.
I'm not disagreeing with that.

The fact is that if you or I posted what Trump had posted, the posts, unless reported, would probably still be there - we're just not important enough nor do we have such impact with our postings (unless you are Justin Bieber or someone like that).
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  #64  
Old 10.01.2021, 13:33
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Re: Cancel Culture

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The whole Trump thing, I mean, whether or not it is a crime is decided in the future.
Are you able to tell the difference between right and wrong? Did you listen to the speeches at that rally?

Would you have us believe that while all those clowns were able to figure out what was expected, you are not?
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  #65  
Old 10.01.2021, 13:34
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Re: Cancel Culture

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It’s very simple your right to free speech does not include a right to insight racism, violence or an insurrection. When you sign up to a private network you agree to abide by a set of rules and the owners are well within their rights to turf you out if you fail to comply. Now the key word here is private, it means that the owners do not have to put up with your behavior. Now people who are banned from social media have legal avenues of recourse, which I’m pretty sure they are not going to take because they know dam well they are in the wrong..

Cancel Culture - a term used by people wishing to justify and maintain unacceptable behavior. And it needs to be called out for what it is.
Agreed with the top paragraph.

The second one for anyone who experienced Jeremy Corbyns Labour Party is chilling.
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  #66  
Old 10.01.2021, 13:39
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Re: Cancel Culture

Another thing to consider is the precedent this sets. It was funny when Alex Jones was banned, but this week saw YouTube ban TalkRadio's YouTube Channel, an Ofcom regulated broadcaster.

If the President can be "cancelled" then anyone can be. We've already seen how the left will turn on each other, look at the treatment of JK Rowling, or how the Labour party under Jeremy Corbyn operated.
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  #67  
Old 10.01.2021, 13:40
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Re: Cancel Culture

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Another day, another: "I don't understand what is actually happening so I am going to resort to childish conspiracy theories" thread. Donald Trump isn't being censored for fun, he is being censored because he is a man in the most powerful position in the world who is actively and knowingly spreading lies, misinformation, hate speech, subversion of democracy and incitement for people to do violence that are negatively influencing millions of ignorant and impressionable people.

It never ceases to amaze me how people can't figure out such basic and downright obvious things for themselves.
Great, now do the Chinese CCP, Ayatollah Khomeini, Antifa........
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  #68  
Old 10.01.2021, 13:49
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Re: Cancel Culture

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It’s very simple your right to free speech does not include a right to insight racism, violence or an insurrection. When you sign up to a private network you agree to abide by a set of rules and the owners are well within their rights to turf you out if you fail to comply. Now the key word here is private, it means that the owners do not have to put up with your behavior. Now people who are banned from social media have legal avenues of recourse, which I’m pretty sure they are not going to take because they know dam well they are in the wrong..

Cancel Culture - a term used by people wishing to justify and maintain unacceptable behavior. And it needs to be called out for what it is.
Inciting racism.....hmmm. Anyone think it is questionable to censor speech to control what is in people’s hearts. You cannot kill racism by banning it from being uttered. It is done through education, positive actions, and bringing people together. Trying to marginalize a racist person will not accomplish any of that.

Secondly, racism can be very subjective, there are countless cases where it is used a catch all to silence someone with a different view. A racism charge is a powerful tool and the people who wield it know this.

As far as violence and insurrection, why do Kamala Harris, Eric Holder and many others still have twitter accounts when they clearly incited violence and unrest during the summer.
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  #69  
Old 10.01.2021, 13:51
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Re: Cancel Culture

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Are you able to tell the difference between right and wrong? Did you listen to the speeches at that rally?

Would you have us believe that while all those clowns were able to figure out what was expected, you are not?
You're missing my point. History is written by the winners. And this determines wheter down the line a coup-d'etat is remembered as a revolution or an act of treason.
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  #70  
Old 10.01.2021, 13:52
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Re: Cancel Culture

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Great, now do the Chinese CCP, Ayatollah Khomeini, Antifa........
These don't have many followers I think, not enough for Big Tech to feel out of control in their own game.
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  #71  
Old 10.01.2021, 13:53
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Re: Cancel Culture

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Great, now do the Chinese CCP, Ayatollah Khomeini, Antifa........
Just so we all understand correctly...President Trump is now deemed to be too dangerous to have a Twitter account but it’s just dandy that he has the nuclear codes.
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  #72  
Old 10.01.2021, 13:55
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Re: Cancel Culture

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Just so we all understand correctly...President Trump is now deemed to be too dangerous to have a Twitter account but it’s just dandy that he has the nuclear codes.
Is that supposed to be a question or a statement?

Anyway, neither element of it is substantively true.
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  #73  
Old 10.01.2021, 13:55
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Re: Cancel Culture

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You cannot kill racism by banning it from being uttered. It is done through education, positive actions, and bringing people together.
I'm sure many people would be against all of these too...

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Secondly, racism can be very subjective, there are countless cases where it is used a catch all to silence someone with a different view. A racism charge is a powerful tool and the people who wield it know this.
.
I agree.


But the line must be drawn somewhere.
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  #74  
Old 10.01.2021, 13:56
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Re: Cancel Culture

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Just so we all understand correctly...President Trump is now deemed to be too dangerous to have a Twitter account but it’s just dandy that he has the nuclear codes.
They worry he will tweet them.
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  #75  
Old 10.01.2021, 13:56
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Re: Cancel Culture

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I saw this explanation on Twitter, and it makes sense to me....

Imagine Twitter (etc) is a baker and Trump is a gay themed wedding cake. The baker can refuse to make the cake.
Likewise, social media can expel a disruptive presence if that presence goes against their rules for behavior. Social media has behavior standards set by the platform. Like banning here.

Another thought - it’s illegal to scream “fire” in a crowded movie theatre when there is none.

Trump bears some responsibility for incitement. He encouraged it. He’s been encouraging these behaviors over time, whipping up the audience at his rallies. I think the group dynamic was such that there were certain bad actors who wanted to rage and a lot of people were caught up in the mob thing.


Having said all this, I do have a vague discomfort at cutting off Trump -or anyone- forever. But for sure, he needs to be quiet for a while, imho.

One motivation for this action right now is that with the change in administration and control of the congress, social media platforms are probably reassessing their positions.
This is a very interesting analogy that you mention. It's amusing that it was published on Twitter... so the baker can bake a cake with the theme that they can refuse to bake cakes of certain themes.

The analogy comes from the case of Lee v Ashers Baking Company Ltd and others. Lee initiated legal proceedings after Ashers refused to make a cake with a message promoting same-sex marriage, citing their religious beliefs. This is a highly controversial case. In the first instance, the Belfast County Court ruled in favour of the plaintiff on the grounds that it was discriminatory. However, Judge Brownlie erred in her judgment as she conflated sexual orientation with support for same-sex marriage (Ashers maintained that they would have refused to bake the same cake for a heterosexual individual). Moreover, it would mean that a Muslim baker would have to bake a cake with a cartoon of the prophet Mohammed on it and the slogan 'Je Suis Charlie'. An atheist printer would have to print leaflets proclaiming 'the fool says in his heart “There is no God”'. And, a gay graphic designer would have to accept a contract to design a flyer saying 'why sodomy is a sin'. All these examples point towards allowing some form of conscientious objection.

The case was appealed to the Court of Appeal and rejected before being heard in the UK Supreme Court. The SC overturned the prior ruling and held that people could not be forced to promote a belief or opinion that they did not believe in or profoundly disagreed with. To my knowledge this has been referred to the European Court of Human Rights. It's also interesting to note that in Elane Photography v Willock, the New Mexico Supreme Court in 2013 held that it was 'the price of citizenship' for the plaintiff to be required to photograph a same-sex ceremony in spite of her religious beliefs. These cases highlight how difficult it is to balance competing interests. Could it be said then that it's the price of doing business that Twitter must publish all opinions etc?

Why I think the analogy breaks down is that one must distinguish between legal persons and natural persons. Both cannot be treated equally. On the contrary, the tenets of equality are treat equals equally and unequals unequally.
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  #76  
Old 10.01.2021, 14:02
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Re: Cancel Culture

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This is a very interesting analogy that you mention. It's amusing that it was published on Twitter... so the baker can bake a cake with the theme that they can refuse to bake cakes of certain themes.

The analogy comes from the case of Lee v Ashers Baking Company Ltd and others. Lee initiated legal proceedings after Ashers refused to make a cake with a message promoting same-sex marriage, citing their religious beliefs. This is a highly controversial case. In the first instance, the Belfast County Court ruled in favour of the plaintiff on the grounds that it was discriminatory. However, Judge Brownlie erred in her judgment as she conflated sexual orientation with support for same-sex marriage (Ashers maintained that they would have refused to bake the same cake for a heterosexual individual). Moreover, it would mean that a Muslim baker would have to bake a cake with a cartoon of the prophet Mohammed on it and the slogan 'Je Suis Charlie'. An atheist printer would have to print leaflets proclaiming 'the fool says in his heart “There is no God”'. And, a gay graphic designer would have to accept a contract to design a flyer saying 'why sodomy is a sin'. All these examples point towards allowing some form of conscientious objection.

The case was appealed to the Court of Appeal and rejected before being heard in the UK Supreme Court. The SC overturned the prior ruling and held that people could not be forced to promote a belief or opinion that they did not believe in or profoundly disagreed with. To my knowledge this has been referred to the European Court of Human Rights. It's also interesting to note that in Elane Photography v Willock, the New Mexico Supreme Court in 2013 held that it was 'the price of citizenship' for the plaintiff to be required to photograph a same-sex ceremony in spite of her religious beliefs. These cases highlight how difficult it is to balance competing interests. Could it be said then that it's the price of doing business that Twitter must publish all opinions etc?

Why I think the analogy breaks down is that one must distinguish between legal persons and natural persons. Both cannot be treated equally. On the contrary, the tenets of equality are treat equals equally and unequals unequally.
Was the Twitter accnt. President's account or Trump's account?
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  #77  
Old 10.01.2021, 14:09
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Re: Cancel Culture

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Was the Twitter accnt. President's account or Trump's account?
Excellent question! No idea. I'm not a tweeter myself.
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  #78  
Old 10.01.2021, 14:10
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Re: Cancel Culture

Trump's US Government Account: https://twitter.com/potus


The Real Donald Trump (his private account) https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump?lang=de

The White House Account: https://twitter.com/WhiteHouse
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  #79  
Old 10.01.2021, 14:12
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Re: Cancel Culture

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Excellent question! No idea. I'm not a tweeter myself.

I'm not either but I've continuously looked at Trump's tweets to follow his madman thoughts.
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  #80  
Old 10.01.2021, 14:15
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Re: Cancel Culture

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Excellent question! No idea. I'm not a tweeter myself.
Me neither, hence the question. I got tired of short formats when SMSs started. Most people don't know how to contextualize.

Or, maybe we need to ask if the guys pushing him out did it as officials or anti-Trumpers. And "when you reach X millions of supporters you shall be expelled" will ever be written in their T&Cs. What did China do with Alibaba again?
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