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Old 10.01.2021, 03:42
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Cancel Culture

And so, with Facebook, Twitter deleting Trump... What are your thoughts about the media censoring those who can contribute?

I never voted for Trump in either election; I am decidedly not a fan. That said, I am worried about media censorship; now it looks as though Google and Apple are following suit in barring some sites from using their platform. Anyone else concerned about this?
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Old 10.01.2021, 04:50
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Re: Cancel Culture

It started in spring, when Yahoo stopped the possibility to make comments..


Those comments were great but they did not want people to tell the truth, otherwise it would be still allowed.
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Old 10.01.2021, 04:54
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Re: Cancel Culture

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It started in spring, when Yahoo stopped the possibility to make comments..


Those comments were great but they did not want people to tell the truth, otherwise it would be still allowed.
YouTube as well which is why Joe Rogan switched to Spotify (okay ...to be fair, Joe received an amazing contract from Spotify but he also said he was concerned about censorship re: YouTube).
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Old 10.01.2021, 08:42
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Re: Cancel Culture

Inciting a crime, is a crime. And not protected by the first amendment.
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Old 10.01.2021, 09:35
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Re: Cancel Culture

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Inciting a crime, is a crime. And not protected by the first amendment.
The whole Trump thing, I mean, whether or not it is a crime is decided in the future.

The US indepence war started out as a crime (in British eyes), but because of the outcome it is now judged to be a war of independence. At the time the signers of the declaration of independence were criminals, but because of history's outcome are the founding fathers.

If invading Peloci's office had brought voter fraud to light with Trump being the rightfull election winner, who would be the criminal then ?
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Old 10.01.2021, 10:16
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Re: Cancel Culture

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The whole Trump thing, I mean, whether or not it is a crime is decided in the future.

The US indepence war started out as a crime (in British eyes), but because of the outcome it is now judged to be a war of independence. At the time the signers of the declaration of independence were criminals, but because of history's outcome are the founding fathers.

If invading Peloci's office had brought voter fraud to light with Trump being the rightfull election winner, who would be the criminal then ?
But that didn't happen. So stop trying to sugar-coat it and instead, please start trying to see it for what it is.

There is no excuse for what those rioters did, and what they did is called "terrorism" by definition -- "the unlawful use of violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims" -- regardless of whether or not you or anyone else is willing to admit it.
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Old 10.01.2021, 13:33
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Re: Cancel Culture

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The whole Trump thing, I mean, whether or not it is a crime is decided in the future.
Are you able to tell the difference between right and wrong? Did you listen to the speeches at that rally?

Would you have us believe that while all those clowns were able to figure out what was expected, you are not?
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Old 10.01.2021, 09:09
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Re: Cancel Culture

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And so, with Facebook, Twitter deleting Trump... What are your thoughts about the media censoring those who can contribute?

I never voted for Trump in either election; I am decidedly not a fan. That said, I am worried about media censorship; now it looks as though Google and Apple are following suit in barring some sites from using their platform. Anyone else concerned about this?
Another day, another: "I don't understand what is actually happening so I am going to resort to childish conspiracy theories" thread. Donald Trump isn't being censored for fun, he is being censored because he is a man in the most powerful position in the world who is actively and knowingly spreading lies, misinformation, hate speech, subversion of democracy and incitement for people to do violence that are negatively influencing millions of ignorant and impressionable people.

It never ceases to amaze me how people can't figure out such basic and downright obvious things for themselves.

Last edited by Chuff; 10.01.2021 at 09:54.
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Old 10.01.2021, 09:42
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Re: Cancel Culture

I think that before anyone can come to an educated opinion in that regard, they need to first educate themselves about the ways the Internet and social media are used to indoctrinate and recruit terrorists and Jihadists and white supremacists, etc., including the fact that these groups often use social media to prey upon and radicalize teenagers.

To simply say that "censorship is bad" is failing to recognize the problem in the first place.
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Old 10.01.2021, 09:49
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Re: Cancel Culture

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Inciting a crime, is a crime. And not protected by the first amendment.
Exactly - and many governments around the world have threatened online service providers with severe penalties if they allow their platforms to be used in criminal acts.
So it's self-preservation, as well as seeking to prevent crimes being committed on their platform - not censorship.

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Another day, another: "I don't understand what is actually happening so I am going to resort to childish conspiracy theories" thread. Donald Trump isn't being censored for fun, he is being censored because he is a man in the most powerful position in the world who is actively and knowingly spreading lies, misinformation, hate speech, subversion of democracy and incitement for people to do violence that are negatively influencing millions of ignorant and impressionable people.

It never ceases to amaze me how people can't figure out such basic and downright obvious things for themselves.
This.
If you can prevent a crime by blocking an online social media account, it's a no-brainer: you block the account.

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I think that before anyone can come to an educated opinion in that regard, they need to first educate themselves about the ways the Internet and social media are used to indoctrinate and recruit terrorists and Jihadists and white supremacists, etc., including the fact that these groups often use social media to prey upon and radicalize teenagers.

To simply say that "censorship is bad" is failing to recognize the problem in the first place.
The internet is great for this sort of recruitment, as you can just leave bait dangling virtually forever, and the recruits will come to you ... then you hit them with the hard lies once you have them hooked.
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Old 10.01.2021, 10:22
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Re: Cancel Culture

Would be interesting to know how much social media has made from trump and his 100m online followers over the last 4 years.

Social media is about discussion and the more divisive that it, the more people it attracts .. The platforms would have loved it and raked in millions in both money and new subscribers. But when it no longer fits, just pull the plug.
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Old 10.01.2021, 10:33
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Re: Cancel Culture

MusicChick - it's noteworthy that you thanked all those posts that appeared to be against any form of social media censorship - so basically you feel there should be no moderation by moderators.

And yet you willingly volunteer to be, and act as a moderator on this forum.

Doesn't that strike you as a bit hypocritical?

Or, is it one rule for some and another for the select few? comrade?
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Old 10.01.2021, 10:37
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Re: Cancel Culture

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Would be interesting to know how much social media has made from trump and his 100m online followers over the last 4 years.

Social media is about discussion and the more divisive that it, the more people it attracts .. The platforms would have loved it and raked in millions in both money and new subscribers. But when it no longer fits, just pull the plug.
This is a bit of an oversimplification (I am being generous with my wording here), John. The main things that have changed in the last 4 years are:
  • Trump stepped up his rhetoric and became more dangerous and unpredictable as time progressed.
  • Scrutiny over social media use and the effects of its abuse has very rightly been increased during this time.
  • The political landscape is not the same as it was 4 years ago and understanding of the dangers of unfettered use of social media are now better understood.

Things have to, and are, changing. I say again that anyone who can't understand why people in positions of such political power and political, with access to hundreds of millions of impressionable people on social media platforms, cannot be allowed to pathologically lie and engage in hate speech without any restrictions, must have some cognitive issues. it just doesn't get any more obvious.
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Old 10.01.2021, 10:39
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Re: Cancel Culture

Facebook, Twitter, Youtube and all the others, and The Local which owns this forum are for-profit businesses. As such, they set what they provide, und which conditions, and explicitly reserve, for themselves, the right to stop providing.

By signing up, one agrees to their Terms and Conditions. Typically, those include not using the platform to do crime, promote crime or to encourage others to become criminal. Whoever breaches those, risks being excluded.

Moreover, those Terms and Conditions often contain a clause saying, more or less, that the user agrees to the fact that the platform can, at their sole discretion whenever they decide to, block posts or delete profiles. It's not as if users have a right to use the platform at all. None of us does. And there is certainly no right to post any which content a user chooses, without regard to the consequences.
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Old 10.01.2021, 10:46
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Re: Cancel Culture

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It started in spring, when Yahoo stopped the possibility to make comments..


Those comments were great but they did not want people to tell the truth, otherwise it would be still allowed.
Right. I don't think that all the uncomfortable truth potentially "recruits jihadists".

This idea of grown ups who need to be shielded from data that somebody elses controls...because there are "impressionable, feeble minds out there"? How have we survived the last 20 years of such dangerous internet world? Looks like people need to be more exposed to reality, not less, if their 1st reflex is to get their opponent cancelled. Will it take another 10 years before people mature out of groupthink? Can they get together without being policed?

You push people to dissent and undeground, you know nothing anymore about their priorities, you lose traceability, you create sanitized world where people are no longer trusted and they are reported and cancelled. Apple, Google, You tube, FB, reddit, Twitter are losing big time on this - in the long run. It might be a fake wonderful world with zero credibility. PC policies that everybody likes because they make everyone feel moral, are totally abused, but being even more PC isn't gong to fix this abuse. China is one big PC group think, are people happy and free? People not needing to be validated in the make believe PC world will fix the abuse that PC thinking creates. Make space for others, tolerate other opinions.

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The whole Trump thing, I mean, whether or not it is a crime is decided in the future.

The US indepence war started out as a crime (in British eyes), but because of the outcome it is now judged to be a war of independence. At the time the signers of the declaration of independence were criminals, but because of history's outcome are the founding fathers.

If invading Peloci's office had brought voter fraud to light with Trump being the rightfull election winner, who would be the criminal then ?
Absolutely.

If DT is pushed out by extreme measures of biased media and people who cannot stand opposing views, it stinks. It will create far bigger conflict and a long one.

Let's tread carefully when people label their opponents trolls and liars instead of focusing on the issues in debates. These opponents do not deserve to be (perma)banned just because people get irritated that there is somebody with consistent view that differs.

Thanks, terri - this is a good thread.
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Last edited by MusicChick; 10.01.2021 at 11:04.
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Old 10.01.2021, 10:52
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Re: Cancel Culture

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If DT is pushed out by extreme measures of biased media and people who cannot stand opposing views, it stinks. It will create far bigger conflict and a long one.

Let's tread carefully when people label their opponents trolls and liars instead of focusing on the issues in debates. These opponents do not deserve to be (perma)banned just because people get irritated that there is somebody with consistent view that differs.
Yeah ok, but you’re conflating “opposing views” with encouraging violence. It goes beyond irritation. If it leads to death, injury, and commission of illegal acts it is beyond a difference of opinion. I feel you’re making DT into a victim of bias. He is not.
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Old 10.01.2021, 10:53
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Re: Cancel Culture

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Right. I don't think that all the uncomfortable truth potentially "recruits jihadists". This potentuality again is a matter of an opinion.

This idea of grown ups who need to be shielded from data that somebody elses controls...because there are "impressionable, feeble minds out there"? How have we survived the last 20 years of such dangerous internet world? Looks like people need to be more exposed to reality, not less. If their 1st reflex is to get their opponent cancelled. Will it take another 10 years before people mature out of groupthink? Can get together without being policed?

You push people in dissent and undeground, you know nothing anymore, you lose traceability, you create sanitized world where people are no longer trusted and they are reported and cancelled. Apple, Google, You tube, reddit, Twitter are losing big time on this - in the long run. PC policies that everybody likes because they make everyone feel moral, are totally abused, but being even more PC isn't gong to fix this abuse. China is one big PC group think, are people happy and free? People not needing to be validated in the make believe PC world will fix the abuse that PC thinking creates. Make space for others, tolerate other opinions.



Absolutely.

If DT is pushed out by extreme measures of biased media and people who cannot stand opposing views, it stinks. It will create far bigger conflict and a long one.

Let's tread carefully when people label their opponents trolls and liars instead of focusing on the issues in debates. These opponents do not deserve to be (perma)banned just because people get irritated that there is somebody with consistent view that differs.
It's interesting when you talk about people needing to be more tolerant of opposing views when you yourself treat people who do not support Trump here differently from those who do. You have also very clearly demonstrated in the past that you moderate with your personal biases.

If there was a group on Facebook that consisted of thousands or millions of people discussing their plot to assassinate Trump, would you feel that that group should not be removed from social media?
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Old 10.01.2021, 15:48
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Re: Cancel Culture

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Absolutely.

If DT is pushed out by extreme measures of biased media and people who cannot stand opposing views, it stinks. It will create far bigger conflict and a long one.

Let's tread carefully when people label their opponents trolls and liars instead of focusing on the issues in debates. These opponents do not deserve to be (perma)banned just because people get irritated that there is somebody with consistent view that differs.

Thanks, terri - this is a good thread.
What a load of absolute bullshit.

You rail against "PC" practices and policies, but frankly I can't think of anything much more politically correct than giving someone a pass for anything they say because "it's just their alternative view". No, in a functioning society people can't spew any crap they like and a) not be subject to criticism and b) not be held to account.

Trump claiming, completely without evidence, that fraud was committed and the election stolen is not an "alternative view". It is, in fact, fraud of its own making.

Trump claiming that the courts (presided over by judges, many of whom HE appointed) are wrong and fraudulent is not an "alternative view". It's more lies and bullshit.

Trump fomenting "revolution", rioting and a pathetic, symbolic coup d'état is not an "alternative view". It's a Federal crime and an impeachable offence.

I could go on...

Trump is a troll and a liar. He needed to have his mouthpiece removed—and a lot more besides.
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Old 10.01.2021, 13:40
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Re: Cancel Culture

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Another day, another: "I don't understand what is actually happening so I am going to resort to childish conspiracy theories" thread. Donald Trump isn't being censored for fun, he is being censored because he is a man in the most powerful position in the world who is actively and knowingly spreading lies, misinformation, hate speech, subversion of democracy and incitement for people to do violence that are negatively influencing millions of ignorant and impressionable people.

It never ceases to amaze me how people can't figure out such basic and downright obvious things for themselves.
Great, now do the Chinese CCP, Ayatollah Khomeini, Antifa........
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Old 10.01.2021, 13:52
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Re: Cancel Culture

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Great, now do the Chinese CCP, Ayatollah Khomeini, Antifa........
These don't have many followers I think, not enough for Big Tech to feel out of control in their own game.
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