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  #61  
Old 24.01.2021, 18:53
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Is this hangover talk?
Yes, but i think it should be brought up, coz everyone is, oh, its just qannon supporters and nazis who they def didnt just think with were ok people if you just sat down with them and made it just look like they were ok with nazis, this is a mainstream movement

Ack, thats word salad

Some people took the view that being tolerant, is sitting down with the intolerance and thinking theres a common ground

There isnt

And im looking at these groups, wondering why they feel oppressed, and its very hard for me to understand that they feel oppressed because it seems like the only freedom they want is to oppress others

Last edited by 3Wishes; 25.01.2021 at 21:07. Reason: merging consecutive replies
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  #62  
Old 24.01.2021, 19:07
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Re: Are american evangelicals just a political group

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Im well read thanks
I think you might need to lay off the sauce, dude. My comment wasn't directed at you. That's why I had quoted NotAllThere.
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  #63  
Old 24.01.2021, 19:35
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Re: Are american evangelicals just a political group

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I think you might need to lay off the sauce, dude. My comment wasn't directed at you. That's why I had quoted NotAllThere.
I look forward to the time when im not going bizzaro stuck in my flat and ranting at text posts i could ignore
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  #64  
Old 24.01.2021, 19:55
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Re: Are american evangelicals just a political group

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I look forward to the time when im not going bizzaro stuck in my flat and ranting at text posts i could ignore
Hey, its lockdown, ranting at text posts is what we do for fun now.
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  #65  
Old 24.01.2021, 20:03
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Re: Are american evangelicals just a political group

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But you are a Christian, correct? So does that not color your view?
Note that the majority secular historical opinion is that he did exist. That's just a fact. Notwithstanding...
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One thing that bugs me is that there is no evidence that a Jesus existed, no Roman records, no proof of any kind.more in common with a Monty Python sketch than the birth of a religion.
Yeah. There is. Quite a great deal in fact. No serious historian doubts it. But you'll always get outliers. And outright deniers whose atheiesm and irrational hatred of all things religious "colours their views". But I don't want to turn this into one of those threads, so I'll leave it there. I'm not insisting on the last word - I just won't respond further in this thread on that subject. You can do your own research - or not. I don't really care either way.
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I’m intrigued how separation of church and state protects the church. How does that work? Which church?
They didn't want a state telling them what to believe. It was to protect freedom of religion. Which wasn't a thing so much in Europe until quite recently really.
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  #66  
Old 24.01.2021, 20:19
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Re: Are american evangelicals just a political group

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Hey, its lockdown, ranting at text posts is what we do for fun now.
Slammer is right. Don't sweat it, cyrus.
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  #67  
Old 24.01.2021, 20:25
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Re: Are american evangelicals just a political group

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Here's Paula White in action. Extraordinary.

OMG

Blonde witch

Religious leader NO.

Porn star YES.
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  #68  
Old 24.01.2021, 21:15
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Re: Are american evangelicals just a political group

When you have a deep hatred of something, its more often than not that the hatred stems not from the thing you hate, but from your own reflection in the mirror. In other words, you hate something about yourself and what ever subject or thing you hate is the mirror. Time to look inside and see what it is.


That said, yeah those evanges are special breed and extremists are extremists the world over. They are also contributing (in a very large way) to the settlement issue in Palestine because, well, you have to see it to believe it.


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  #69  
Old 24.01.2021, 21:27
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Re: Are american evangelicals just a political group

Yeah. People like Hagee. Ugh.
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  #70  
Old 24.01.2021, 21:34
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Re: Are american evangelicals just a political group

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OMG

Blonde witch

Religious leader NO.

Porn star YES.
Eww.
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  #71  
Old 24.01.2021, 22:16
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Re: Are american evangelicals just a political group

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One thing that bugs me is that there is no evidence that a Jesus existed, no Roman records, no proof of any kind. If he was such a big deal then I would have expected at least some mention in Roman chronicles. So either he did not exist or there were so many "messiaheses" that early christianity had more in common with a Monty Python sketch than the birth of a religion.
A year or two ago, I read Zealot. Now as the wikipedia page notes, it wasn't without controversy in its reception, but it does indeed include references.

What I found fascinating, and worth noting, is that it is possible to understand something of the man - a man who battled an empire, died, but arguably won - from an essentially historical viewpoint.

Very little was written about him directly, after all, the poor people following him around were generally illiterate, and he was but one rebel out of many, as far as the Romans were concerned. But the time period was very well documented, and whether or not you believe in the results Aslan's analysis, I thought he showed that such analysis is possible.
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  #72  
Old 24.01.2021, 22:18
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Re: Are american evangelicals just a political group

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Not that the majority secular historical opinion is that he did exist. That's just a fact. Notwithstanding...
Yeah. There is. Quite a great deal in fact. No serious historian doubts it. But you'll always get outliers. And outright deniers whose atheiesm and irrational hatred of all things religious "colours their views". But I don't want to turn this into one of those threads, so I'll leave it there. I'm not insisting on the last word - I just won't respond further in this thread on that subject. You can do your own research - or not. I don't really care either way.
They didn't want a state telling them what to believe. It was to protect freedom of religion. Which wasn't a thing so much in Europe until quite recently really.
Hey, I watched "Life of Brian" too.
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  #73  
Old 24.01.2021, 22:25
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Re: Are american evangelicals just a political group

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Fascinating, thanks.

I could never see why it 'does not look good' to have 2 nationalities, and that it is considered by many as a conflict of values/priorities.

I would never renounce either of my nationalities- they are both totally part of me.

Ignazio Cassis recently gave up his Italian Nationality when he was elected, as he saw it as a 'conflict'. Why? Lorenzo Quadri, from the Lega dei Ticinesi, a political party in the Italian-speaking canton of Ticino, put forward a motion to have this made law. He thinks Federal Councillors, parliamentarians and diplomats should hold only Swiss nationality. Some members of the Swiss Peoples Party (UDC/SVP) agree. Thank goodness this was rejected.
Politicians in particular should NEVER have multiple nationalities.

Tom
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  #74  
Old 24.01.2021, 22:28
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Re: Are american evangelicals just a political group

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Politicians in particular should NEVER have multiple nationalities.

Tom
Why?

And would you allow them to be born into bi-national partnership?
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  #75  
Old 24.01.2021, 22:33
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Re: Are american evangelicals just a political group

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A year or two ago, I read Zealot. Now as the wikipedia page notes, it wasn't without controversy in its reception, but it does indeed include references.

What I found fascinating, and worth noting, is that it is possible to understand something of the man - a man who battled an empire, died, but arguably won - from an essentially historical viewpoint.

Very little was written about him directly, after all, the poor people following him around were generally illiterate, and he was but one rebel out of many, as far as the Romans were concerned. But the time period was very well documented, and whether or not you believe in the results Aslan's analysis, I thought he showed that such analysis is possible.
There is a lot of discussion on this topic and non are conclusive, each morsel of proof or contradiction can only be on thin ice indeed. I think that the best way to interpret it is to imagine that the historical Jesus was an amalgamation of more than one person. I can also imagine that the Jesus story is just a version told about some magician of that period. Or just a corruption of the Gilgamesh epos.
Who knows and who cares. At the end of the day I cant imagine anybody truly believing that he was the son of a god and a mortal woman, that would make him a demi-god at best.
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  #76  
Old 24.01.2021, 22:41
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Re: Are american evangelicals just a political group

tldr, Some people have extreme views but imagine living in a society where the government taxes you to pay for the church and allows public disturbance in the same name but you're not allowed to wash your car or shop on a Sunday. Oh wait...
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  #77  
Old 24.01.2021, 23:34
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Re: Are american evangelicals just a political group

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I’m intrigued how separation of church and state protects the church. How does that work? Which church?
Not sure if this is an honestly meant question, but if you look at history there is a lot of meddling in church affairs by governments. Even the King James Bible was, as the name suggests, translated on the king's orders, specifically to be able to clarify some ambiguous passages in favour of being interpreted to defend the monarchy.

The bible that Pilgrim Fathers brought to America was not the King James Version but the so-called Geneva translation which the king actually tried to suppress because the wording of said passages was subtly different. This was part of the reason they were persecuted and had to leave.

And going further back, Henry VIII, er, nationalized the church to be able to re-write its dogmas so he could get a divorce.

On the other hand, mostly when bishops or priests tried to tell the king what to do they ended up in a dungeon. Or murdered like Thomas Becket.

So to me its pretty obvious that the state interfered in the church much more than vice versa. And much more succesfully.
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  #78  
Old 24.01.2021, 23:39
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Re: Are american evangelicals just a political group

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Yes, we were lucky to spend time in Maui and Kaui some years back- and this came up in conversation a few times as we went on many trips with local rangers.
I visited Acoma in New Mexico some years back and it was something the guide brought up. And this annexation is an event much further back in history.
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  #79  
Old 24.01.2021, 23:47
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Re: Are american evangelicals just a political group

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Why?

And would you allow them to be born into bi-national partnership?
Why?

Same as CEOs and managers of big corporations need to declare any side jobs and they strictly may not work or consult for any competitor or would be competitor because of conflicts of interest.

My boss used to serve on the board of directors of another company but had to resign when they extended their portfolio to offer something that was competing with something we make. Even though the area of conflict is a totally insignificant fraction of total business on both sides.
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Old 24.01.2021, 23:47
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Re: Are american evangelicals just a political group

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Not sure if this is an honestly meant question, but if you look at history there is a lot of meddling in church affairs by governments. Even the King James Bible was, as the name suggests, translated on the king's orders, specifically to be able to clarify some ambiguous passages in favour of being interpreted to defend the monarchy.

The bible that Pilgrim Fathers brought to America was not the King James Version but the so-called Geneva translation which the king actually tried to suppress because the wording of said passages was subtly different. This was part of the reason they were persecuted and had to leave.

And going further back, Henry VIII, er, nationalized the church to be able to re-write its dogmas so he could get a divorce.

On the other hand, mostly when bishops or priests tried to tell the king what to do they ended up in a dungeon. Or murdered like Thomas Becket.

So to me its pretty obvious that the state interfered in the church much more than vice versa. And much more succesfully.
The Roman Catholic Church has been pretty successful at telling states what to do for quite a while...
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