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  #21  
Old 31.01.2021, 15:05
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Re: The Texit referendum thread: Dont mess with Texas

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Silicon Valley just relocated to Silicon Hills (Austin), so that will complicate things even further. Texas has the oil, and the ports to support the entire midwest. Most of these midwestern states (Oklahoma, Kansas, Nebraska, etc) already view themselves as smaller versions of Texas. Or at least they look up to Texas.
I do believe if Texas does succeed a few states will join them. The so called bread basket flyover states.
Silicon Valley hasn't "just relocated". Several companies have established operations in Austin but it's not like everyone in Silicon Valley packed up and left California (yet). Also Austin isn't turning out to be much cheaper in terms of living costs.

Texas has a fascinating history and was a Republic at one point. However current Supreme Court precedent seems to indicate secession is not legal.

Even Justice Scalia, much-loved by conservatives, weighed in by sending a letter in reply to a question in 2006:
https://www.businessinsider.com/just...2-11?r=US&IR=T

Side note-
Since when was Texas in the midwest? Or even Oklahoma? I have never heard Texas referred to in the same breath as as Iowa, Nebraska, Illinois, Minnesota, Wisconsin, etc.

To me: TX is southwest, OK and KS are plains, and only NE is midwest. The Bureau of Labor statistics agrees with you on NE.
https://www.bls.gov/regions/midwest/midwest.htm

BLS puts TX and OK as southwest:
https://www.bls.gov/regions/southwest/home.htm

And KS is considered mountain-plains:
https://www.bls.gov/regions/southwest/home.htm

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How many electoral collage votes would the Republicans lose?

Not gonna happen.
Texas has 38 EC votes.
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  #22  
Old 31.01.2021, 15:11
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Re: The Texit referendum thread: Dont mess with Texas

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I would counter that and say that Mexico actually belongs to Spain.

And Spain actually belongs to Austria.

And Austria actually belongs to a small village in the Aargau.

Therefore Texas is Swiss.
Allowed to discuss and debate independence then. Thanks for clarifying.
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  #23  
Old 31.01.2021, 15:29
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Re: The Texit referendum thread: Dont mess with Texas

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I don't believe in the civil war scenario myself.
I don't either. That was fed to people for dramatic effect. Or people felt that due to the violence that was pretty much allowed for an extended time.

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People living in relative comfort have too much to lose and would on the whole rather sacrifice liberty than risk losing their real or perceived luxuries.
I know you will disagree with me, but voting Trump in was a revolution of the poor, in my view.

I wouldn't assume either that US would be less likely to give out comfort or status quo and ability to plan and predict than Brexiters, Velvet Revolutionaries or soon Orban, looks like.

Not sure.

Last edited by MusicChick; 31.01.2021 at 15:41.
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  #24  
Old 31.01.2021, 15:51
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Re: The Texit referendum thread: Dont mess with Texas

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I don't either. That that was fed to people for dramatic effect. Or people felt that due to the violence that was pretty much allowed for an extended time.



I know you will disagree with me, but voting Trump in was a revolution of the poor, in my view.
This is what I meant.

People are unhappy and are prepared to go down the democratic and legal path as far as necessary or possible. But if all legal means fail, I don't think they would be prepared to welcome an actual all-out civil war. They know that even if it doesn't end up killing very many of them, it would inflict huge hardship and regardless of the outcome, it might take several generations to fully recover.

Of course if people get poorer and have less to lose, this sort of attitude can change. That is why in places like Africa and Latin America guns do speak in politics much more often than they do in Europe.

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I wouldn't assume either that US would be less likely to give out comfort or status quo and ability to plan and predict than Brexiters, Velvet Revolutionaries or soon Orban, looks like.

Not sure.
I think the velvet revolution was only possible because the old communists had basically lost the propaganda battle, and the majority of the population had ceased to believe in them. Probably this actually happened decades before the actual revolution but systems have a certain latency and the rot is always there long before it becomes obvious. Brexit is similar. The UK voted to join the EEC back in the day but the honeymoon didn't last long and already by the 1980s there was a clear anti-Europe leaning, which took several further decades to actually manifest itself in real action.

Mrs Thatcher used that to as a sort of blackmail to make her voice heard. But when Cameron tried that, the EU called his bluff and discovered it wasn't a bluff.

I don't think Orban is planning to quit any time soon, but it's when he does go that things will get interesting. The Germans don't understand what it is that they are wishing for. Like so often before in history, they are misreading the bigger picture.
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  #25  
Old 31.01.2021, 16:04
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Re: The Texit referendum thread: Dont mess with Texas

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This is what I meant.

People are unhappy and are prepared to go down the democratic and legal path as far as necessary or possible. But if all legal means fail, I don't think they would be prepared to welcome an actual all-out civil war. They know that even if it doesn't end up killing very many of them, it would inflict huge hardship and regardless of the outcome, it might take several generations to fully recover.
I wonder if they look up from their screens. Nah, I agree. I think West will not get into any expensive troubles, even less so if there isn't healthcare for all in peaceful times.

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Of course if people get poorer and have less to lose, this sort of attitude can change. That is why in places like Africa and Latin America guns do speak in politics much more often than they do in Europe.



I think the velvet revolution was only possible because the old communists had basically lost the propaganda battle, and the majority of the population had ceased to believe in them. Probably this actually happened decades before the actual revolution but systems have a certain latency.
Opressed nations fear loss of lives, especially after the war. Commie bs was the official dogma of our occupants. I think what you said is Western optics. Most people didn't buy the commie bs, but were glad that they were alive. Some may have idealized some notions for a bit but that left around 60s. I don't believe in latency either, sometimes you let pest die when you know it's going to happen. It's stoic, it is not fear. The way the velvet change of guards hapened was a weird mix of spontaneous and tactical; physical violence or threat of civil war wasn't used to blackmail. Brexit reminded me that.

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Brexit is similar. The UK voted to join the EEC back in the day but the honeymoon didn't last long and already by the 1980s there was a clear anti-Europe leaning, which took several further decades to actually manifest itself in real action.

I don't think Orban is planning to quit any time soon, but it's when he does go that things will get interesting. The Germans don't understand what it is that they are wishing for.
Your last sentence made me laugh. I think that applies for a couple of things.
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Old 31.01.2021, 16:09
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Re: The Texit referendum thread: Dont mess with Texas

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I would counter that and say that Mexico actually belongs to Spain.

And Spain actually belongs to Austria.

And Austria actually belongs to a small village in the Aargau.

Therefore Texas is Swiss.
This bit of Aargau was an exclave of Austria!
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Old 31.01.2021, 17:35
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Re: The Texit referendum thread: Dont mess with Texas

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This bit of Aargau was an exclave of Austria!
You mean of the Austria that was yet to be built?
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  #28  
Old 31.01.2021, 17:45
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Re: The Texit referendum thread: Dont mess with Texas

Would keep clear of the Alamo for a spell.
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  #29  
Old 31.01.2021, 17:45
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Re: The Texit referendum thread: Dont mess with Texas

Just for the record the Republic of Texas was an independent state from the 2nd March 1836
when it successfully seceded from Mexico until the 19th February 1846 when it was annexed
by the United States.

Republic of Texas
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  #30  
Old 31.01.2021, 17:47
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Re: The Texit referendum thread: Dont mess with Texas

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Silicon Valley hasn't "just relocated". Several companies have established operations in Austin but it's not like everyone in Silicon Valley packed up and left California (yet). Also Austin isn't turning out to be much cheaper in terms of living costs.

Texas has a fascinating history and was a Republic at one point. However current Supreme Court precedent seems to indicate secession is not legal.

Even Justice Scalia, much-loved by conservatives, weighed in by sending a letter in reply to a question in 2006:
https://www.businessinsider.com/just...2-11?r=US&IR=T

Side note-
Since when was Texas in the midwest? Or even Oklahoma? I have never heard Texas referred to in the same breath as as Iowa, Nebraska, Illinois, Minnesota, Wisconsin, etc.

To me: TX is southwest, OK and KS are plains, and only NE is midwest. The Bureau of Labor statistics agrees with you on NE.
https://www.bls.gov/regions/midwest/midwest.htm

BLS puts TX and OK as southwest:
https://www.bls.gov/regions/southwest/home.htm

And KS is considered mountain-plains:
https://www.bls.gov/regions/southwest/home.htm



Texas has 38 EC votes.
Because Iowa, Illinois, Minnesota, Wisconsin, etc, ain't far enough over for me to call them mid-west. Well, really anything west of Indiana, Kentucky, Tennessee, Mississippi right the way over to Montana, Wyoming, Colorado and New Mexico I'd call mid-west and the other states west of those are west. I don't do north/south divide and it would probably be better if most Americans didn't either.

And iirc didn't most states have to vote on joining the union? If that's the case, then surely they can vote to leave it as well.
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  #31  
Old 31.01.2021, 17:50
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Re: The Texit referendum thread: Dont mess with Texas

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Just for the record the Republic of Texas was an independent state from the 2nd March 1836
when it successfully seceded from Mexico until the 19th February 1846 when it was annexed
by the United States.

Republic of Texas
Of course if Texas was to secede again from the United States and Biden drags his feet over a
US-UK trade deal in an Obama style, Britain can wait at the back of the queue for trade deals.

Could the Brexits strike a trade deal with the Texits ?
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  #32  
Old 31.01.2021, 18:32
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Re: The Texit referendum thread: Dont mess with Texas

Now that the ancien regime is back in the White House, a hypotherically independent Texas would need to be watching its back.

Texas has oil.
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  #33  
Old 31.01.2021, 19:14
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Re: The Texit referendum thread: Dont mess with Texas

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Of course if Texas was to secede again from the United States and Biden drags his feet over a
US-UK trade deal in an Obama style, Britain can wait at the back of the queue for trade deals.

Could the Brexits strike a trade deal with the Texits ?
BrTexit?
Can't work, they're missing too many vowels.
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  #34  
Old 31.01.2021, 19:35
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Re: The Texit referendum thread: Dont mess with Texas

TexOut.

OuTex.
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  #35  
Old 31.01.2021, 19:43
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Re: The Texit referendum thread: Dont mess with Texas

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This bit of Aargau was an exclave of Austria!
Actually, it's the other way around.

Tom
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  #36  
Old 31.01.2021, 20:08
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Re: The Texit referendum thread: Dont mess with Texas

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I would counter that and say that Mexico actually belongs to Spain.

And Spain actually belongs to Austria.

And Austria actually belongs to a small village in the Aargau.

Therefore Texas is Swiss.
But wasn´t Mexico´s King Maximilian a German?

History is so confusing.
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  #37  
Old 31.01.2021, 20:16
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Re: The Texit referendum thread: Dont mess with Texas

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Of course if Texas was to secede again from the United States and Biden drags his feet over a
US-UK trade deal in an Obama style, Britain can wait at the back of the queue for trade deals.

Could the Brexits strike a trade deal with the Texits ?
You may like this little gem I picked up along the way a little while back:
Brexit Trade Talks:
UK: We don't like our deal
EU: Why not?
UK: We only get 95% of what we want
EU: It only gives us 95% too. That's how negotiating goes
UK: We want a new deal that gives us everything we can think of
EU: But you signed a deal
UK: Don't care, we hate you
EU: Bit rude
UK: We elected people to go to your meetings specifically to say we hate you
EU: And how is Nigel?
UK: Not happy?
EU: Why not?
UK: TV has dried up. So we want a new deal, and we want the deal in 3 weeks, or we cancel our existing deal
EU: Wait, what?
UK: You heard. Give us 100% of what we want in 3 weeks, or we break the law and walk away with 0% of what we want
EU: Er suits us!
UK: Wait, what?
EU: Perfect. Do it. Walk away. Take Nigel with you.
UK: No, hold on, wait: you have to negotiate, so Boris can win
EU: Why? Right now you have 95% of perfect, and we have 95% of perfect. If we renegotiate, you get more but we get less
UK: That's right
EU: But if we don't negotiate, we still have our 95%
UK: Woah, hold on
EU: And you have nothing
UK: But Dom didn't superpredict you'd say that!
EU: And if we don't have a deal, we don't have to put up with you **** on our lawn
UK: The Daily Mail made us do it and then ran away!
EU: I just found this spine. Is it yours?
UK: Welp!
EU: So we'll just sit this one out
UK: Fine, we'll go and make a great deal with the US
---
US: Yo suckers
UK: We are here to get a lovely big trade deal
US: Sure thing. Obey existing deals, and give us 100% of everything, plus 51% controlling share in the NHS, and you get, let's see, 60% of what you have now
UK: Not good enough, we have a Special Relationship
US: Bye
UK: What?
US: Bye. Talks are over, the Special Relationship is over, your country is over. Bye
UK: But we haven't got a deal, and we told everyone it would be easy!
US: It is easy: we are 26% of world trade, making deals with EU (20%) and China (17%). We don't need your 1.8%. No deal: easy
UK: But we really need a deal, the EU outsmarted us
US: We know. Some of us can read. Not Trump, obviously, but the rest of us. Try India
---
UK: Hi India, remember us?
India: Oh ****, these guys again
UK: We want a trade deal
India: And we want to vastly increase the number of Indians who can live in the UK
UK: We can't do that. Turns out we're, like, properly racist
India: That is brand new information!!
UK: So can we have a deal?
India: Sure, fine. Join the queue
UK: Who's in front of us in the queue?
India: EU, USA, China, Brazil, Korea, Canada, Australia basically everybody. We're kind of a big deal now.
UK: So you'll be ready to negotiate in, what: 3 weeks?
India: Ha ha ha ha ha
UK: What did we say?
India: 3 weeks? Try 3 years. This **** takes ages, bro
UK: But we had a timetable of 3 weeks with the EU
India: And how did that work out?
UK: Erm
India: Try Brazil
---
UK: Hi Brazil
Brazil: We ArE oN FiRe!!
UK: Maybe we can trade you some fire engines?
Brazil: We LiKe bEiNg oN FiRe, iT's OuR tHiNg NoW!!!
UK: Shall we try New Zealand?
Brazil: I aM So DrUnK!!
UK: Yeah, let's try New Zealand
---
UK: Hi, New Zealand
NZ: Hi, Crazy Uncle
UK: We'd like to sell you some lamb
NZ: Sorry, it's very noisy here, cos we still have a working economy. Did you say you want to sell us some lamb?
UK: Yes
NZ: Hold the line, gotta tell Australia this, they'll **** themselves
---
UK: Hi Australia, wanna trade stuff?
Aus: We wanna offload Rolf Harris and our worst ever PM. What can you give us for them?
UK: We've already got them
Aus: That was easy! So what can you trade?
UK: We can send you some racists
Aus: I think we're sorted. Try Russia
---
UK: Hi Russia, we have loads of lovely things we think you'd love to own
Russia: We already own them
UK: You don't own Boris
Russia: True. We rent him by the hour. £160k for a tennis match
UK: We really need a trade deal
Russia: We know. We made you need one. Try China
---
UK: Can we please have a trade deal?
China: And you are...?
UK: We're Great Britain
China: Great, you say?
UK: Well once
China: It's not ringing any bells. Do you have another name?
UK: United Kingdom
China: United, you say?
UK: Alright, smart arse
China: So you want a trade deal?
UK: Yes, but first we demand you obey international law
China: What happened to your deal with the EU?
UK: We broke international law
China: Have you been drinking moonshine with Brazil again?
UK: We're very tired.
China: Why did you leave the EU?
UK: We couldn't deal with foreigners telling us what to do
China: What do you want?
UK: A deal
China: With who?
UK: Foreigners
China: And why can't you get one?
UK: Cos we don't know what to do
China: Were you dropped as a child?
UK: We just want a trade deal worthy of our status
China: You've got one
UK: No we haven't
China: Yes you have
UK: Why won't anybody take us seriously?
China: Would you like to buy a mirror?
UK: Finally, a deal!
China: You had a deal worthy of your status, with the EU. You don't need to renegotiate deals: you need to reassess your status. You're not a mighty nation, you're a small, wet, heavily indebted island on the edge of a globally important trade bloc, which you just left, you tit
UK: So, what do you suggest?
China: Aw, mate. You already know
---
EU: Hi there! Here to rejoin?
UK: Yes, and on the same terms as before
EU: Oh, I don't think so. Say goodbye to your rebate, hello to the Euro, and bonjour to the Schengen area and a hearty Willkommen aus Berlin!
By the way, how are the German lessons getting on?
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Old 01.02.2021, 10:21
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Re: The Texit referendum thread: Dont mess with Texas

In the unlikely event that this did happen, I wonder if history would be rewritten/erased to such an extent as what happened after the US Civil War

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Texas will become a victim of its own success. Liberals will continue moving to Texas for jobs/cost of living benefits yet will continue to vote for the same silly policies that made their own states unlivable. It's the great paradox of our times haha.
Sure, all though not quite ready yet, it's clear demographically that Texas is well on its way to flipping to becoming a blue state. Could even happen in 2024.
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Old 01.02.2021, 11:00
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Re: The Texit referendum thread: Dont mess with Texas

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But wasn´t Mexico´s King Maximilian a German?

History is so confusing.
Emperor, not king.

And he was Austrian.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maximilian_I_of_Mexico

Tom
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Old 01.02.2021, 11:35
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Re: The Texit referendum thread: Dont mess with Texas

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Emperor, not king.
And he was Austrian.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maximilian_I_of_Mexico
Tom
Surely according to Hollywood history, wasn't the Emperor Maximillian's forces soundly defeated by the Mexicans
thanks to the timely intervention of John Wayne ? In fact John Wayne & Richard Widmark were even at
The Alamo ! !
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