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Old 03.02.2021, 11:11
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UK/EU musicians, travel, visas etc.

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What a thread title.

It is one, totally separate from the OP- that musicians all over the UK have been desperate about for months, and with no hope for the future. So many musicians who will not be able to come to music festivals, buskers' festivals, gigs, concerts - to travel around Europe to spread joy to so many people. As said, not related to OP (I remember this day very well) - but was the first thing that sprung to my mind in seeing the title. Terrible situation for British music,
Music.
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Old 03.02.2021, 11:19
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Re: The day the Music died.

I just talked to a fellow musician and there are things moving on here, I concur from my own experience - all within the state imposed measures: smaller groups, online rehearsals, teaching scores online from empty rehearsal rooms, group de travail of individual members or pairs, ton of homework, vids. Makes me realize until up to what point our life was full of music..Still is, just differently. I talk to a fellow bass player in London, and it sucks there. Plus this new strain. But we don't know how it develops here the next few weeks, so..So far, a lot of solidarity and cooperation. Kids here do a lot of work online but also a lot of work live Thankgod.
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Old 03.02.2021, 11:30
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Re: The day the Music died.

this is not about Covid, but about now being non EU and not being allowed to travel to Europe with instruments and do gigs, concerts, busking, etc. So many UK musician friends have been touring Europe, unhindered and free, for many many years. This is all over for them - and so sad for us who so enjoyed their music and company.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...free-eu-travel
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Old 03.02.2021, 12:15
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Re: The day the Music died.

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this is not about Covid, but about now being non EU and not being allowed to travel to Europe with instruments and do gigs, concerts, busking, etc. So many UK musician friends have been touring Europe, unhindered and free, for many many years. This is all over for them - and so sad for us who so enjoyed their music and company.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...free-eu-travel
Another misleading article from the left wing, pro-EU biased Guardian.
It was the EU that rejected the agreement not the other way round.
Seeing the behavior of the EU over the vaccines and their lies I'm more inclined to believe the UK government.
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Old 03.02.2021, 12:43
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Re: The day the Music died.

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this is not about Covid, but about now being non EU and not being allowed to travel to Europe with instruments and do gigs, concerts, busking, etc. So many UK musician friends have been touring Europe, unhindered and free, for many many years. This is all over for them - and so sad for us who so enjoyed their music and company.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...free-eu-travel
Cool, now I can have a beer with musicians and talk about ATA carnets without being a boring corporate dron
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Old 03.02.2021, 13:04
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Re: The day the Music died.

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Another misleading article from the left wing, pro-EU biased Guardian.
It was the EU that rejected the agreement not the other way round.
well, neither of us were there. But- the EU made proposals to avoid Visas for musicians in March- but Johnson refused to make this reciprocal, as they had to adhere strictly to the end of Free Movement. The EU were totally fair in expecting the agreement to be reciprocal, no?
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Old 03.02.2021, 13:25
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Re: The day the Music died.

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It is one, totally separate from the OP- that musicians all over the UK have been desperate about for months, and with no hope for the future. So many musicians who will not be able to come to music festivals, buskers' festivals, gigs, concerts - to travel around Europe to spread joy to so many people. As said, not related to OP (I remember this day very well) - but was the first thing that sprung to my mind in seeing the title. Terrible situation for British music,
Music.
Isn’t this a discussion that deserves a thread of its own rather than derailing this one?
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Old 03.02.2021, 13:36
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Re: The day the Music died.

Good craftsmen (musicians included) will renegotiate the visa situation, soon, I trust them. It will not be easy for anyone, when people can actually travel again and move around, tbh. Especially anyone making living by arts or culture.
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Old 03.02.2021, 14:24
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Re: The day the Music died.

How Music- how? Many musicians are not top professionals from Top Orchestras with wide influence. How can they re-negotiate anything with the EU- when their own Government has refused to he offer from the EU to make an exemption?

But yes, BelgianMum- but the title was vague- and knowing the awful position all our UK Musician friends find themselves in, with no work and often no compensation- therefore no salary and about to lose the roof over their head- knowing that when the time come, they will not be able to visit all their well established gigs, venues and festivals- results in just that - the death of music.
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Old 03.02.2021, 14:28
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Re: The day the Music died.

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But yes, BelgianMum- but the title was vague- and knowing the awful position all our UK Musician friends find themselves in, with no work and often no compensation- therefore no salary and about to lose the roof over their head- knowing that when the time come, they will not be able to visit all their well established gigs, venues and festivals- results in just that - the death of music.
That’s why I think it deserves its own thread.
It is quite an important topic for discussion.
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Old 03.02.2021, 15:07
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Re: The day the Music died.

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How Music- how? Many musicians are not top professionals from Top Orchestras with wide influence. How can they re-negotiate anything with the EU- when their own Government has refused to he offer from the EU to make an exemption?

But yes, BelgianMum- but the title was vague- and knowing the awful position all our UK Musician friends find themselves in, with no work and often no compensation- therefore no salary and about to lose the roof over their head- knowing that when the time come, they will not be able to visit all their well established gigs, venues and festivals- results in just that - the death of music.
If that's the case, the music is not dead. Music just became a 3rd country national.

Since Europe is brimming with 3rd country nationals, including me, what's the special challenge they face? Are UK musicians less capable to do paperwork than people coming from other continents?
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Old 03.02.2021, 15:19
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Re: The day the Music died.

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If that's the case, the music is not dead. Music just became a 3rd country national.

Since Europe is brimming with 3rd country nationals, including me, what's the special challenge they face? Are UK musicians less capable to do paperwork than people coming from other continents?
And surely it’s no more difficult than if they wanted to perform in Canada, or Peru, or Argentina? Visas and Carnets? Yes a pain in the ass but they are not EU nationals.

The same is going to apply to Chalet workers, Ski instructors, Pilots and licensed aircraft mechanics. It is what it is.
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Old 03.02.2021, 15:54
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Re: The day the Music died.

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And surely it’s no more difficult than if they wanted to perform in Canada, or Peru, or Argentina? Visas and Carnets? Yes a pain in the ass but they are not EU nationals.

The same is going to apply to Chalet workers, Ski instructors, Pilots and licensed aircraft mechanics. It is what it is.
Isn't the same for EU citizens? If you want a visa for Peru or Argentina (for example) they surely have the right to ask you to procure tons of papers - reservations, bank account etc. and can refuse granting it. Fair enough. As for working there...I guess there's so much bureaucracy one wouldn't even think of it.
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Old 03.02.2021, 16:02
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Re: The day the Music died.

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Another misleading article from the left wing, pro-EU biased Guardian.
It used to be ok.
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Old 03.02.2021, 16:12
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Re: The day the Music died.

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Isn't the same for EU citizens? If you want a visa for Peru or Argentina (for example) they surely have the right to ask you to procure tons of papers - reservations, bank account etc. and can refuse granting it. Fair enough. As for working there...I guess there's so much bureaucracy one wouldn't even think of it.

The issue here is that UK musicians would come and go as they wanted before, no worries about importing instruments or jumping from European country to another. We are not talking about musicians coming to work and reside here, but itinerant musicians, going from gig to gig, festival to festival, for weeks or months or a whole season. Some of the musicians we have hosted here bring a vanfull of varied instruments, sometimes homemade or artisan made all over the world- and will now have to import them each time and individually- as well as having visas for each country. The cost, never mind the paperwork and trouble at each border- means they will just not be able to come and share the joy, and earn some sort of living. The point being that until 2021, they could.

And it is a dreadful shame. We regularly organise concerts here, and work with other venues and festivals in our region/Canton and beyond- bringing so much joy to so many, and a lifeline for the musicians.
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Old 03.02.2021, 16:25
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Re: The day the Music died.

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The issue here is that UK musicians would come and go as they wanted before, no worries about importing instruments or jumping from European country to another. We are not talking about musicians coming to work and reside here, but itinerant musicians, going from gig to gig, festival to festival, for weeks or months or a whole season. Some of the musicians we have hosted here bring a vanfull of varied instruments, sometimes homemade or artisan made all over the world- and will now have to import them each time and individually- as well as having visas for each country. The cost, never mind the paperwork and trouble at each border- means they will just not be able to come and share the joy, and earn some sort of living. The point being that until 2021, they could.

And it is a dreadful shame. We regularly organise concerts here, and work with other venues and festivals in our region/Canton and beyond- bringing so much joy to so many, and a lifeline for the musicians.
It's exactly the same issue with EU musicians coming to Switzerland, they would need an ATA Carnet for equipment, just the same as when I lived in Switzerland & was filming in the EU taking equipment with me.
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Old 03.02.2021, 16:49
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Re: The day the Music died.

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Another misleading article from the left wing, pro-EU biased Guardian.
It was the EU that rejected the agreement not the other way round.
Seeing the behavior of the EU over the vaccines and their lies I'm more inclined to believe the UK government.
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It used to be ok.
The Grauniad? So named, back in the day, because it was reputedly full of spelling mistakes. Anyway, it's always been left wing, anti-establishment and allegedly inaccurate, certainly from the 1970s at the very least.

This was at a time when the other 'broadsheets', the Times, Telegraph and (later) the Independent, were seen as being broadly neutral in their main news reporting, with political bias only coming to the fore in editorial content.

Some would argue that the "Torygraph" (Tory=Conservative Party) was always blatantly right-wing, but it was always my choice for its news, often better written and more detailed than some of the others. That's how I remember it anyway. Oh, and it had the best cryptic crossword, IMO, too. Important when you're commuting by rail for a couple of hours each day.
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Old 03.02.2021, 16:59
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Re: UK/EU musicians, travel, visas etc.

I think Guardian used to be more interesting, intellectually, than now. It's just full of political campaigning now. Haven't touched it for a good while.
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Old 03.02.2021, 17:31
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Re: The day the Music died.

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The issue here is that UK musicians would come and go as they wanted before, no worries about importing instruments or jumping from European country to another. We are not talking about musicians coming to work and reside here, but itinerant musicians, going from gig to gig, festival to festival, for weeks or months or a whole season. Some of the musicians we have hosted here bring a vanfull of varied instruments, sometimes homemade or artisan made all over the world- and will now have to import them each time and individually- as well as having visas for each country. The cost, never mind the paperwork and trouble at each border- means they will just not be able to come and share the joy, and earn some sort of living. The point being that until 2021, they could.

And it is a dreadful shame. We regularly organise concerts here, and work with other venues and festivals in our region/Canton and beyond- bringing so much joy to so many, and a lifeline for the musicians.
Yeah, I get it. People have what they wanted. Or at least a significant part of voters.
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Old 03.02.2021, 18:55
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Re: The day the Music died.

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Isn't the same for EU citizens? If you want a visa for Peru or Argentina (for example) they surely have the right to ask you to procure tons of papers - reservations, bank account etc. and can refuse granting it. Fair enough. As for working there...I guess there's so much bureaucracy one wouldn't even think of it.
Yes, of course.
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