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Old 17.02.2021, 22:01
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Re: Trump - post Presidency thread

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I think at some point along the road he may have lost it and started drifting more and more into political extremism and clownism.

I went into his school in Budapest once and was reading some of the stuff on the notice boards. Topics of upcoming lectures and so. It was actually quite funny. But I regret involuntarily so. And totally disconnected from any form of practical reality. Made me wonder who would want to employ the alumni from such a school.
All international rankings showed his university (CEU) in Budapest was the highest rated in Hungary.
Of course, they were assisted by Orban's dreams of draining the public of education by dragging down the other universities and so molding a more pliant nation.
Orban's latest victim is the world-renowned University of Theatre and Arts (SZFE), the oldest art institution of higher education in Hungary.

On 14 October 2007 George Soros stepped down as Chairman of the CEU Board so had no direct control of policy.
Last year the CEU won a ruling in the highest EU court that Orban's law against the CEU was illegal but now too late to prevent the CEU from moving to Vienna.
Amogle asked "who would want to employ the alumni from such a school.", a simple google search will give a very impressive list of notable alumini.
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  #242  
Old 17.02.2021, 22:09
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Re: Trump - post Presidency thread

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It is not true drug abuse is more prevalent among black folk; that is in itself a racist statement.
What's your definition of racism?
  #243  
Old 17.02.2021, 22:09
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Re: Trump - post Presidency thread

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Merely trying to classify something as xyz, rationalisation in this case, is not an argument. Quite the contrary, inability to make a case and demonstrate inaccuracies is indirect confirmation.

No doubt, poverty is an important aspect. What are black grownups doing to reduce that risk? Single-parent homes is undoubtedly a, maybe *the*, major driver here as the risk of poverty is way higher. 3/4 of the births given by black mothers take place out of wedlock and 1/2 of the black kids grow up in single-parent homes, usually fatherless.

In what way does the black community help in that endeavour and avoid transfering the parent(s)' poverty on to the next generation? Kids are held back by drug-infested schools and communities, and normalised crime. Many kids who do show ambition will probably be bound back quickly by being bullied and called out for their "acting white".

You see, most of those problems are created by the black people themselves. Volutarily created and often intentionally, this can't be emphasized enough. Comitting a crime, selling drugs to your neighborhood school kids and not only infesting the next generation but keeping them from learning and growing up well, having unprotected sex, driving while stoned, are all choices. So is giving birth out of wedlock (in most states) and thereby having a single-parent household.

These points, too, are no excuse for racism to the extent it exists.
But poverty isn't proof of racism, and trying to blame others for the group member's choices doesn't improve the situation either. The BLM riots for instance are actually worsening the situation because businesses that get looted, ransacked, burned, or outright destroyed may well move on and and take the jobs with them.
One solution for fatherless families would be stopping the unfair and excessive imprisonment of black men.
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  #244  
Old 17.02.2021, 22:16
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Re: Trump - post Presidency thread

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You see, most of those problems are created by the black people themselves. Volutarily created and often intentionally, this can't be emphasized enough. Comitting a crime, selling drugs to your neighborhood school kids and not only infesting the next generation but keeping them from learning and growing up well, having unprotected sex, driving while stoned, are all choices. So is giving birth out of wedlock (in most states) and thereby having a single-parent household.
No, I don’t see. I don’t normally comment on these threads but the above statement shows a godawful lack of awareness and understanding of the circumstances that were imposed upon African Americans from the moment their ancestors were rounded up and shipped over the Atlantic.
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  #245  
Old 17.02.2021, 22:26
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Re: Trump - post Presidency thread

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That is not the point, they do not want to rewrite history; the history is accurate.
The problem is people revere statues to traitors and slave owners.

There are no statues for Lee Harvey Oswald or John Wilkes Booth for good reasons so why so commemorate Confederate generals who killed far more US citizens?
For the same reasons that there are statues of Napoleon, Jesus, Julius Cesare, Carlo Magno, Genghis Khan, etc.

Tom
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  #246  
Old 17.02.2021, 22:33
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Re: Trump - post Presidency thread

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For the same reasons that there are statues of Napoleon, Jesus, Julius Cesare, Carlo Magno, Genghis Khan, etc.

Tom
Plus there are few that have suffered more from the rewriting of history than the confederate cause.
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  #247  
Old 17.02.2021, 22:50
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Re: Trump - post Presidency thread

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Merely trying to classify something as xyz, rationalisation in this case, is not an argument. Quite the contrary, inability to make a case and demonstrate inaccuracies is indirect confirmation.

No doubt, poverty is an important aspect. What are black grownups doing to reduce that risk? Single-parent homes is undoubtedly a, maybe *the*, major driver here as the risk of poverty is way higher. 3/4 of the births given by black mothers take place out of wedlock and 1/2 of the black kids grow up in single-parent homes, usually fatherless.

In what way does the black community help in that endeavour and avoid transfering the parent(s)' poverty on to the next generation? Kids are held back by drug-infested schools and communities, and normalised crime. Many kids who do show ambition will probably be bound back quickly by being bullied and called out for their "acting white".

You see, most of those problems are created by the black people themselves. Volutarily created and often intentionally, this can't be emphasized enough. Comitting a crime, selling drugs to your neighborhood school kids and not only infesting the next generation but keeping them from learning and growing up well, having unprotected sex, driving while stoned, are all choices. So is giving birth out of wedlock (in most states) and thereby having a single-parent household.

.
I just can't.
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  #248  
Old 17.02.2021, 23:01
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Re: Trump - post Presidency thread

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One solution for fatherless families would be stopping the unfair and excessive imprisonment of black men.
using laws that were implemented by the Clinton administration and partially rolled back by Trump.
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  #249  
Old 17.02.2021, 23:05
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Re: Trump - post Presidency thread

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No, I don’t see. I don’t normally comment on these threads but the above statement shows a godawful lack of awareness and understanding of the circumstances that were imposed upon African Americans from the moment their ancestors were rounded up and shipped over the Atlantic.
50 years ago the rate of out-of-wedlock births by black mothers was 1/4. Please explain how the increase to 3/4 was caused by slavery. Or by Jim Crow laws, if you prefer.
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And, if you look at the different treatment of crack versus powder cocaine there is evidence of racism..
You're effectively saying that Bill Clinton, Joe Biden, and Barack Hussein Obama are all racists. Plus the Black Congress Caucus members who voted for the laws in 1993/94 and 2010, respectively.

You see, the different punishments are a result of the 1993/94 Fair Sentencing Act, which was drafted by the Dem's saint Joe Biden and signed into law by Clinton. Today's version was amended under and signed into law by Obama in 2010.

That makes racism rather unlikely. But that's just my opinion.
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One solution for fatherless families would be stopping the unfair and excessive imprisonment of black men.
That won't stop out-of-wedlock pregnancies and births. The trend started 50 years or so ago, roughly with the introduction of the pill. I find it difficult to see how a law that's half as old will revert that trend, or change it significantly (I don't remember seeing an acceleration over the las 20-25 years).

Sure, prison terms are a factor, plus the three strikes rule (is it still active?). That doesn't change however that the causal factor is one of choice, i.e. comitting the crime.

If you ask me, the entire US prison system is an abomination, starting with the private prisons. Their tendency to punish and enact revenge rather than help the inmates in becoming productive members of society is another sore point. But that's theirs to decide.

What is a tad difficult to find logical is the fact that the same person who wrote those acts, and was VP when it was made slightly less extreme, is now expected to remedy the situation he was instrumental in creating in the first place. And another person (looking at you Kamala) who has it made her job to enact it on a state/city level for 14 full years and aggravate the situation doing so, is expected to support him doing that.



ETA:
Even the WaPo wrote last July:
How an early Biden crime bill created the sentencing disparity for crack and cocaine trafficking

"The new form of cocaine was called crack, and by the summer of 1986 it was fueling fears of a drug epidemic.

Mayors pleaded for federal help to protect inner-city neighborhoods from traffickers. Black clergy members held vigils on street corners in New York City, calling cocaine a “new form of genocide.” In Washington, Democrats charged that the Reagan administration was surrendering the fight."

Last edited by Urs Max; 17.02.2021 at 23:20.
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  #250  
Old 17.02.2021, 23:31
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Re: Trump - post Presidency thread

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I just can't.
Then why do you?
  #251  
Old 17.02.2021, 23:36
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Re: Trump - post Presidency thread

It can't get more Trump Post Presidency than this.
It even imploded.
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  #252  
Old 17.02.2021, 23:56
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Re: Trump - post Presidency thread

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Then why do you?
To reassure others who feel the same way. It's like a universal shaking of the head in bewilderment.
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  #253  
Old 17.02.2021, 23:57
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Re: Trump - post Presidency thread

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It can't get more Trump Post Presidency than this.
It even imploded.
I see a few inconsistencies in your timeline

Besides, that's not WTC7
  #254  
Old 17.02.2021, 23:59
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Re: Trump - post Presidency thread

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To reassure others who feel the same way. It's like a universal shaking of the head in bewilderment.
Erm ... whatever
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  #255  
Old 18.02.2021, 20:18
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Re: Trump - post Presidency thread

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I think you are extrapolating from a couple of extremists to a lot of people who don't at all think that.
i totally wasnt trying to divert from the conversation! just saying. but anyway btw when i described the extreme right according to their ‘manifesto’ it was to characterise the marchers ie in charlottesville … not right wing people in general and lets say heartland traditionalists and small c conservatiove types, not these, but to describe the organised demos that we saw a lot of and are organised in the far right forums online. it was these people i meant! and why therefore comparing BLM to these people is disproportionate because BLM isnt an extreme political organisation. its a pro democracy one.

otoh, you might say that the demos are made up of a lot of people. and youre probably right. i guess then that just coz theyre not swapping aryan blood dawn memes and 'purification by fire' poetry on the internet, doesnt make them less criminal minded, less willing to break the law to gety what they wanted. when they stormed the capitol in that legendary day in january, well tbh it has to go down as one of the most illegalist things ever to happen in the country. and the list of people who did it ... half of them just normal everyday folk. blm havent done anything even close to that, not even close. its not even the same game.

btw you mention the different reactions by the justice system to the demonstrations … i feel like youve got it the wrong way round. the blm protesters have been since 2014 or whenever they started protesting under the banner, infiltrated, criminalised, agent provocateured, intimidated, completely misrepresented, tear gassed, beaten, shot at, sprayed in the face …. children, oaps, everyone saw it … sprayed in the face. arrested, punished, arrested at work. they’ve been shot at by right wing groups who cross state lines for the rave up. shot at in the streets by civilians! as the cops stood by. dropped into prison with huge bail prices. they cracked an oaps head on the ground so hard he started bleeding out his ears.

otoh the guys who oeverran the capitol … who lets get this right attempted one of the most illegalest badass things you can do in a country, like overthrow the govt LOL, and the police were walking them down the stairs outside if they needed help. PLUS the mad fascists were talking about it for weeks and no-one did anything. if blm plotted anything like that on social media theyd be arrested at 6 am. the justice system is treating the capitol stormers with respect

… which btw i think a justice system should treat protesters with default respect during the prosecution period and imo thats great ABSOLUTELY ... innocent until proven guilty etc … but the differences are imo notable...


btw about the US cops. its well documented and on public record that the US cops have strong cohorts of far right tough guys with their insignias and their motivations within their ranks. infiltrated isnt the right word coz its no secret.
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  #256  
Old 18.02.2021, 20:52
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Re: Trump - post Presidency thread

To get back to Trump, reluctantly.

I doubt his post Presidency will go so well as people forecast.
For example, there was a lot of pre-publicity about Trump joining Sean Hannity's show last night but there was very little about it in the media today, it did not even make the Fox News front page. Strangely he got the most column inches in the Independent.
Sadly for him without the power of the Presidency behind him, he is just another voice amongst many.

Moving to Florida was probably not a smart move either, I do not see the media flying top reporters down there just to catch his pearls of wisdom.

There has been a lot of theorizing about how Trump has over a hundred million available to him to spend to make Republicans' life difficult in the 2020 primaries. But in today's political scene that is peanuts, Mike Bloomberg alone spent $100 Million to help Joe Biden win Florida without success.

Without Twitter and Facebook, he will have a big problem being heard.
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Old 18.02.2021, 22:29
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Re: Trump - post Presidency thread

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otoh, you might say that the demos are made up of a lot of people. and youre probably right. i guess then that just coz theyre not swapping aryan blood dawn memes and 'purification by fire' poetry on the internet, doesnt make them less criminal minded, less willing to break the law to gety what they wanted. when they stormed the capitol in that legendary day in january, well tbh it has to go down as one of the most illegalist things ever to happen in the country. and the list of people who did it ... half of them just normal everyday folk. blm havent done anything even close to that, not even close. its not even the same game.
It seems you are trying to have it both ways here.

There are also plenty of people saying the Capitol thing was infiltrated. Maybe it was. But either you go along with conspiracy theories or you don't. It's a bit opportunistic to want to pick and chose the ones that suit you and ignore those that don't.

And let's put it this way. If a provocateur joins your ranks, and then injures a cop, or trashes a Target store, or steals Pelosi's laptop, or whatever, then its the provocateur who did it. And if they get arrested, then it's a provocateur who got arrested. Why should "good" people offer to bail somebody like that while at the same time alleging they are a provocateur. You are bailing somebody who is damaging your cause. It doesn't make sense. And if innocent people copy a provocateur and get arrested, I still don't have any sympathy. "He did it too" isn't even a good excuse for five year olds. We shouldn't be bailing weak minded idiots. Leave them locked up until sanity returns.
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  #258  
Old 19.02.2021, 00:09
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Re: Trump - post Presidency thread

i think i see your point but just to say, when i said the blm protests were infiltrated and provocateured, i meant by cops ... federal and state! i kind of said it to show how the justice system seems to treat BLM, which hasnt been with much respect so far.

when you say otoh that provocateurs were in the capitol riots, do you mean btw the idea that it was antifa behind the capitol riots? maybe you didnt but if you did and with respect 1. the capitol stormers were openly plotting it on the forums for weeks 2. everybody there that (famous) day (that will be sung about over plucked guitars 200 years from now) was no doubt caught on some kind of camera and so 3. if there was any proof of antifa doing it, by now everyone on earth would know ... it would be paraded daily in the timelines. but still 8 weeks later fox news are like 'and oh yeh, antifa was behind it, course they were'.

antifa aren't magical smoke, everywhere and nowhere, they are on the government watchlists, will have files big as houses on them in all the intelligence services, will be infiltrated and etc etc. if any antifa organised it, they'd know.

also they are anti fascist. why would they consort with fascists? to make fascists look bad? its like the start of a joke: how do you make a fascist look bad?

or if in fact you meant not antifa but that the capitol stormers had cops in their ranks just like BLM, well they did indeed. but they were on their freetime. venting!
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Old 19.02.2021, 00:42
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Re: Trump - post Presidency thread

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i think i see your point but just to say, when i said the blm protests were infiltrated and provocateured, i meant by cops ... federal and state! i kind of said it to show how the justice system seems to treat BLM, which hasnt been with much respect so far.

when you say otoh that provocateurs were in the capitol riots, do you mean btw the idea that it was antifa behind the capitol riots? maybe you didnt but if you did and with respect 1. the capitol stormers were openly plotting it on the forums for weeks 2. everybody there that (famous) day (that will be sung about over plucked guitars 200 years from now) was no doubt caught on some kind of camera and so 3. if there was any proof of antifa doing it, by now everyone on earth would know ... it would be paraded daily in the timelines. but still 8 weeks later fox news are like 'and oh yeh, antifa was behind it, course they were'.

antifa aren't magical smoke, everywhere and nowhere, they are on the government watchlists, will have files big as houses on them in all the intelligence services, will be infiltrated and etc etc. if any antifa organised it, they'd know.

also they are anti fascist. why would they consort with fascists? to make fascists look bad? its like the start of a joke: how do you make a fascist look bad?

or if in fact you meant not antifa but that the capitol stormers had cops in their ranks just like BLM, well they did indeed. but they were on their freetime. venting!
"that will be sung about over plucked guitars" surely you mean those six-fingered banjo players?
As you say the theory that the Capitol riots contained Antifa provocateurs has long been debunked. Some people still like to publicly promote such theories; luckily most of us just nod wisely and then move on to discussing fact-based theories.
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Old 19.02.2021, 01:08
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Re: Trump - post Presidency thread

in 200 years probably 7 fingers! imagine the banjo riffs with that kind of dexterity.

''momma if the lawmen ask my name is mr smith/ coz i tried to climb up on that crane thing that they clean the windows with/ but i couldnt/ y'all i couldnt/ and now i think im in some kind of trouble''

cue 10 minute genius banjo riff
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