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Old 14.02.2021, 14:48
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Re: Trump - post Presidency thread

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Honestly - I’m sick of Tories and Czechs thinking they have any proper perspective on American politics. You don’t see me commenting on frequently or as a subject matter expert on Brexit threads...
Tories and Czechs do that on there too.
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  #122  
Old 14.02.2021, 14:49
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Re: Trump - post Presidency thread

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I still believe, the best course of action is leave Trump our of the spotlight for a couple of months, this is what he hates and then prosecute him for taxes in the fall and then have Biden pardon him after a few other months.
I think it's virtually impossible to leave Trump out of the spotlight. That is, unless he keeps out of it of his own accord. The moment he steps up to say something, the media cannot resist reporting on it. And even if they tactically try to avoid it, they know that if they don't, somebody else will, and there goes their market share.

I think Trump's biggest challenge in the coming months will be to manage the expectations coming from his own supporters. Social media is abuzz with rumours that he's creating his own political party, his own social media platform, etc etc. Trump himself is being relatively quiet and not giving any direction.
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  #123  
Old 14.02.2021, 14:56
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Re: Trump - post Presidency thread

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A split in the Republican Party is absolutely something that benefits the democrats in a winner takes all system such as the us electoral system . Not just for the presidency but on all levels of government .

It is thus not unlikely that at least parts of the Democratic Party are trying to play this tactically to foster that division .

But it is a dangerous game that can easily backfire . The Tea Party similarly initially caused a lot of damage to the GOP but in the longer term came back and hurt the Democrats.
The Tea Party was formed in 2009, was damaged in 2012 by Obama's win and had more or less disappeared by 2016.

Pity as an orgainsed, energetic and ultra traditional conservative group they would have provided a good counterweight to the Trumpers.
  #124  
Old 14.02.2021, 14:59
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Re: Trump - post Presidency thread

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I think it's virtually impossible to leave Trump out of the spotlight. That is, unless he keeps out of it of his own accord. The moment he steps up to say something, the media cannot resist reporting on it. And even if they tactically try to avoid it, they know that if they don't, somebody else will, and there goes their market share.

I think Trump's biggest challenge in the coming months will be to manage the expectations coming from his own supporters. Social media is abuzz with rumours that he's creating his own political party, his own social media platform, etc etc. Trump himself is being relatively quiet and not giving any direction.
It could be hard to be tactical when his strategy was being direct and immediate. I don't think his support population puts pressure on him. Mainstream media and platforms will soon inquire after him when they realize that emotions are running out.

Last edited by MusicChick; 14.02.2021 at 16:07.
  #125  
Old 14.02.2021, 14:59
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Re: Trump - post Presidency thread

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Yes, winners usually throw massive temper tantrums that result in voter fraud attempts, a riot on the nation’s capital, that resulted in death and feces smeared on walls and being the first POTUS to be impeached twice.

Impeachment is the opposite of a fair trial, where juries are selected in order to make sure there are no biases and are most definitely not made of co-conspirators themselves. Time will only tell if Trump will rightfully face a real judge and jury ... but he is anything but a winner.
Impeachment would be very good if the result would have been what you expected, right? Yes I agree with you, this was not a fair trial. In spite of it Trump won. This tells something.

Two unsuccessful attempts make democrats look really bad. Why did they do it? As an ex-president, Trump should be a lame duck.

Indeed he has a lot of political capital given the number of people who voted for him. Most of the GOP senators who voted against Trump are either going to retire or won't need a vote soon. They are all aware that going against Trump is political suicide. If he decides to run again englishforum will probably have a new huge thread called "Trump - second term". Unless Biden&co will deliver outstanding results or at least won't make things worse.
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  #126  
Old 14.02.2021, 15:04
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Re: Trump - post Presidency thread

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Yes, the Democrats were emotional and theatric in comparison to the violent mob in Buffalo Bill costume who built a hanging platform and smeared poop on the walls.

Honestly - I’m sick of Tories and Czechs thinking they have any proper perspective on American politics. You don’t see me commenting on frequently or as a subject matter expert on Brexit threads...
Marton proudly announced his Czech origin here, did you mean him?
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  #127  
Old 14.02.2021, 15:07
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Re: Trump - post Presidency thread

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Honestly - I’m sick of Tories and Czechs thinking they have any proper perspective on American politics.
You left out 'USians who no longer live in the US'!

Tom
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  #128  
Old 14.02.2021, 15:25
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Re: Trump - post Presidency thread

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Marton proudly announced his Czech origin here, did you mean him?
I mean uninformed and rather annoying individuals.
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  #129  
Old 14.02.2021, 15:26
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Re: Trump - post Presidency thread

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I mean uninformed and rather annoying individuals.
Ah, so your bog-standard USian!

Tom
  #130  
Old 14.02.2021, 15:28
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Re: Trump - post Presidency thread

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Ah, so your bog-standard USian!

Tom
What are you even trying to say Tom?
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  #131  
Old 14.02.2021, 15:34
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Re: Trump - post Presidency thread

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I mean uninformed and rather annoying individuals.
Such as people who don't understand the meaning of the word tory?
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  #132  
Old 14.02.2021, 15:36
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Re: Trump - post Presidency thread

If Trump is prosecuted for taxes, most likely it will be a state matter and Biden cannot pardon him. Neither should he, even if he can.
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  #133  
Old 14.02.2021, 15:41
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Re: Trump - post Presidency thread

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Such as people who don't understand the meaning of the word tory?
Did you czech it out, yourself?
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  #134  
Old 14.02.2021, 15:43
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Re: Trump - post Presidency thread

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Impeachment would be very good if the result would have been what you expected, right? Yes I agree with you, this was not a fair trial. In spite of it Trump won. This tells something.

Two unsuccessful attempts make democrats look really bad. Why did they do it? As an ex-president, Trump should be a lame duck.

Indeed he has a lot of political capital given the number of people who voted for him. Most of the GOP senators who voted against Trump are either going to retire or won't need a vote soon. They are all aware that going against Trump is political suicide. If he decides to run again englishforum will probably have a new huge thread called "Trump - second term". Unless Biden&co will deliver outstanding results or at least won't make things worse.
Depends on how you define success?
Trump was the first impeached President in US history to have members of his own party vote him guilty; in both impeachments.

How many voters will stick with him after the horrific videos of the Capitol violence is a good question; remember most of the GOP senators who voted not guilty did so for Constitutional reasons not because they thought he was innocent.
He may still have to face criminal charges or civil suits from the families of the dead and injured.
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  #135  
Old 14.02.2021, 16:27
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Re: Trump - post Presidency thread

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He may still have to face criminal charges or civil suits from the families of the dead and injured.
He could certainly still be on the hook for an incitement charge.

It'll all depend on whether Merrick Garland thinks he can build a case that can pass the Brandenburg test.

Brandenburg v. Ohio, 395 U.S. 444 (1969), was a landmark decision of the United States Supreme Court interpreting the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. The Court held that the government cannot punish inflammatory speech unless that speech is "directed to inciting or producing imminent lawless action and is likely to incite or produce such action".
  #136  
Old 14.02.2021, 17:03
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Re: Trump - post Presidency thread

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remember most of the GOP senators who voted not guilty did so for Constitutional reasons not because they thought he was innocent.
He may still have to face criminal charges or civil suits from the families of the dead and injured.

Don't pretend to be so naive, you are surely not. This is politics, own skin comes first. Most senators voted for Trump out of personal reason, nothing to do with the constitution here. Of course, no one would openly say that. As I said voting against him would be political suicide. It seems that currently Trump is the Republican party.

I have no doubt the dems will continue to attack Trump. As the capitol story won't hold, they'll have to do better and come up with new topics. In the past that didn't work, I wonder why. Incompetence? One way or another this looks like a very long thread.
  #137  
Old 14.02.2021, 17:13
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Re: Trump - post Presidency thread

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He could certainly still be on the hook for an incitement charge.

It'll all depend on whether Merrick Garland thinks he can build a case that can pass the Brandenburg test.

Brandenburg v. Ohio, 395 U.S. 444 (1969), was a landmark decision of the United States Supreme Court interpreting the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. The Court held that the government cannot punish inflammatory speech unless that speech is "directed to inciting or producing imminent lawless action and is likely to incite or produce such action".
Sure, applying the Brandenburg test in Hess v. Indiana (1973) the Supreme Court held that the prerequisite for speech that is not protected by the First Amendment is that the speech in question must lead to “imminent disorder”.

It may not be so difficult to demonstrate the storming of the Capitol minutes after Trump's speech ends does pass the “imminent disorder” test.
  #138  
Old 14.02.2021, 18:19
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Re: Trump - post Presidency thread

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He could certainly still be on the hook for an incitement charge.

It'll all depend on whether Merrick Garland thinks he can build a case that can pass the Brandenburg test.

Brandenburg v. Ohio, 395 U.S. 444 (1969), was a landmark decision of the United States Supreme Court interpreting the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. The Court held that the government cannot punish inflammatory speech unless that speech is "directed to inciting or producing imminent lawless action and is likely to incite or produce such action".
If anybody actually watched the proceedings, this was explained and discussed multiple times.
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  #139  
Old 14.02.2021, 18:23
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Re: Trump - post Presidency thread

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Sure, applying the Brandenburg test in Hess v. Indiana (1973) the Supreme Court held that the prerequisite for speech that is not protected by the First Amendment is that the speech in question must lead to “imminent disorder”.

It may not be so difficult to demonstrate the storming of the Capitol minutes after Trump's speech ends does pass the “imminent disorder” test.
During the impeachment proceedings in the Senate, the Dem side themselves said several times that it was not his actual speech but his general behavior over the last 4 years that incited it.

So a very slow motion form of imminent?
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Old 14.02.2021, 18:48
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Re: Trump - post Presidency thread

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If anybody actually watched the proceedings, this was explained and discussed multiple times.
I didn't watch it at all (apart from that short clip of Trump's lawyer talking about due process). The end result was never in doubt and, to paraphrase LBJ, it wasn't worth a bucket of warm spit. (Actually it was John Nance Garner who said that and not in such bowdlerized terms.)

I also don't poke my head around HR's door when they discipline an employee. (I jest, we don't have an HR department and don't plan to...)
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