Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Off-Topic > Off-Topic > International affairs/politics  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 26.03.2021, 19:35
Castro's Avatar
à la mod
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: ZG
Posts: 5,729
Groaned at 126 Times in 102 Posts
Thanked 17,260 Times in 5,479 Posts
Castro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond repute
The dystopian nightmare has begun

The fact that they breezily concede that it won't be used in countries with stricter labour laws

'Missing from desk': AI webcam raises remote surveillance concerns

System developed by French firm Teleperformance monitors home workers for ‘breaches’

For anyone concerned that an era of home working could also become one of remote surveillance, the training video for Teleperformance’s in-house webcam security system, called TP Observer, is the stuff of bad dreams.

Explained by “Anna”, a desk-sitting avatar complete with an artificial voice, the video introduces TP Observer as “a risk-mitigation tool that monitors and tracks real time employee behaviour, and detects any violations to pre-set business rules”.

Anna explains that this means home workers will have an AI-enabled webcam added to their computers that recognises their face, tags their location and scans for “breaches” of rules at random points during a shift.

These include an “unknown person” detected at the desk via the facial recognition software, “missing from desk”, “detecting an idle user” and “unauthorised mobile phone usage”.

Anna says: “Any breach detected by the AI triggers a real-time alert to the supervisor for further actions.” This means a still photo is snapped and sent to a manager.

The video includes a series of avatar-staff asking questions, including one who asks whether the system is “a breach of my privacy at home”. The manager tells him the scanning is needed to “help us with risk mitigation and data security, which is required by most of our customers”.

Another digital employee asks if they will get into trouble if children or other family members approach their home workplace. Not “as long as the people in the background are not directly looking into the screen, or very close to it”. Anna replies. Staff should sit with a wall behind them “to avoid such breaches”, she says. Strong lights should be used for night shifts, so the camera can see properly.

Teleperformance said the system would not be used for UK staff, but it is expected to be used in a number of 30-plus other countries where the French-based multinational operates and where labour laws are less strict.

Source
Reply With Quote
The following 16 users would like to thank Castro for this useful post:
  #2  
Old 26.03.2021, 20:53
newtoswitz's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Rapperswil
Posts: 3,754
Groaned at 75 Times in 70 Posts
Thanked 4,537 Times in 2,076 Posts
newtoswitz has a reputation beyond reputenewtoswitz has a reputation beyond reputenewtoswitz has a reputation beyond reputenewtoswitz has a reputation beyond reputenewtoswitz has a reputation beyond reputenewtoswitz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The dystopian nightmare has begun

So basically a call centre operator is even more crap for their staff than it is for the people who have to call them.

Hard to believe!
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 26.03.2021, 21:11
Castro's Avatar
à la mod
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: ZG
Posts: 5,729
Groaned at 126 Times in 102 Posts
Thanked 17,260 Times in 5,479 Posts
Castro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The dystopian nightmare has begun

Quote:
View Post
So basically a call centre operator is even more crap for their staff than it is for the people who have to call them.

Hard to believe!
This quote is particularly chilling.
Quote:
Another digital employee asks if they will get into trouble if children or other family members approach their home workplace. Not “as long as the people in the background are not directly looking into the screen, or very close to it”. Anna replies. Staff should sit with a wall behind them “to avoid such breaches”, she says. Strong lights should be used for night shifts, so the camera can see properly.
Your child sits on your lap whilst you are working and you risk punishment if they look towards the screen.. seriously wtf?!?

Quote:
Eating while on shift is not permitted, staff are told. “If the system detects no keyboard stroke and mouse click, it will show you as idle for that particular duration, and it will be reported to your supervisor. So please avoid hampering your productivity.”
I do feel sorry for those who have no choice but to work for these slave drivers.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank Castro for this useful post:
  #4  
Old 26.03.2021, 21:21
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 32,505
Groaned at 2,578 Times in 1,840 Posts
Thanked 39,646 Times in 18,685 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The dystopian nightmare has begun

I don't do video calls, or rather I do with my broken camera.

Tom
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank st2lemans for this useful post:
This user groans at st2lemans for this post:
  #5  
Old 26.03.2021, 22:39
bossybaby's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2021
Location: Western Austria
Posts: 713
Groaned at 8 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 1,236 Times in 532 Posts
bossybaby has a reputation beyond reputebossybaby has a reputation beyond reputebossybaby has a reputation beyond reputebossybaby has a reputation beyond reputebossybaby has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The dystopian nightmare has begun

We (thankfully) have a router that can't really support both video and audio. Or so we say...
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank bossybaby for this useful post:
  #6  
Old 26.03.2021, 22:45
Treverus's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Work in ZH, live in SZ
Posts: 12,352
Groaned at 363 Times in 293 Posts
Thanked 23,676 Times in 8,569 Posts
Treverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The dystopian nightmare has begun

It’s been a decade since I did an MBA, but one of the core questions that popped up in many cases discussed was „shareholder vs stakeholder“. I know that we currently have some prominent examples like Amazon doing the opposite, but at least back then did all research show that companies who treated their employees better than their competitors did made massive ROI on those costs.

AI is a pretty new topic and it has a lot of ethical challenges- Microsoft had triggered quite some debate some years ago when their „office graph“ started to analyze your efficiency- based on some preset logic. They got enough backlash that they decided to only show their analysis to employees and not the manager... but I am quite sure that wasn’t the original intention. I personally believe that it is an area that urgently needs groundrules through labor laws. Otherwise will at least some companies take advantage of the tech in ways we can’t even foresee now.
Reply With Quote
The following 6 users would like to thank Treverus for this useful post:
  #7  
Old 26.03.2021, 23:30
Phil_MCR's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 14,952
Groaned at 295 Times in 199 Posts
Thanked 19,020 Times in 8,000 Posts
Phil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The dystopian nightmare has begun

I'm sure the employees will be replaced with AIs soon enough for this to be a non-issue
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Phil_MCR for this useful post:
  #8  
Old 27.03.2021, 00:08
Castro's Avatar
à la mod
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: ZG
Posts: 5,729
Groaned at 126 Times in 102 Posts
Thanked 17,260 Times in 5,479 Posts
Castro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The dystopian nightmare has begun

Quote:
View Post
I personally believe that it is an area that urgently needs groundrules through labor laws. Otherwise will at least some companies take advantage of the tech in ways we can’t even foresee now.
Well labour laws will protect those lucky enough to live under their jurisdiction, however I think it should go further. People unfairly dismissed in say India should be able to challenge Teleperformance in the French courts e.g. through class action law firms.
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users would like to thank Castro for this useful post:
  #9  
Old 27.03.2021, 02:59
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Zurich
Posts: 559
Groaned at 78 Times in 56 Posts
Thanked 1,230 Times in 626 Posts
John William has a reputation beyond reputeJohn William has a reputation beyond reputeJohn William has a reputation beyond reputeJohn William has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The dystopian nightmare has begun

Quote:
View Post
I'm sure the employees will be replaced with AIs soon enough for this to be a non-issue
Wasn't all this ground breaking technology supposed to make us all redundant anyway with 'the workers'
composed of androids and robots.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank John William for this useful post:
  #10  
Old 27.03.2021, 12:26
robBob's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Zurich
Posts: 3,247
Groaned at 66 Times in 51 Posts
Thanked 3,222 Times in 1,715 Posts
robBob has a reputation beyond reputerobBob has a reputation beyond reputerobBob has a reputation beyond reputerobBob has a reputation beyond reputerobBob has a reputation beyond reputerobBob has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The dystopian nightmare has begun

Quote:
View Post
Wasn't all this ground breaking technology supposed to make us all redundant anyway with 'the workers'
composed of androids and robots.
Problem is that it's all still in the Power Point presentation stage.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 27.03.2021, 13:19
TonyClifton's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Hopefully soon to be Aargau
Posts: 1,953
Groaned at 795 Times in 444 Posts
Thanked 4,685 Times in 2,040 Posts
TonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond reputeTonyClifton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The dystopian nightmare has begun

It’s an interesting development that’s for sure. In China there are already apps that people have to run in the office which tracks movement and displays how long employees are at their desk.

In my opinion companies that carry on with this outdated world view will be the ones that suffer. We’ve already seen during the Covid crisis how different companies have behaved. Some have still forced people into the office despite state guidance. Employee resentment has increased and motivation has decreased within these companies as a result.

Ultimately companies need to move away from regarding time as their main KPI. Companies that reward productivity, output and results will be more successful than those more concentrated on whether employees have spent 8 hours at their desk.

The era of trying to pad out ones 8 hour day with pointless tasks like 360 reviews, performance review objectives unrelated to ones job and just appearing to look busy are thankfully coming to an end.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank TonyClifton for this useful post:
  #12  
Old 27.03.2021, 14:19
Treverus's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Work in ZH, live in SZ
Posts: 12,352
Groaned at 363 Times in 293 Posts
Thanked 23,676 Times in 8,569 Posts
Treverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The dystopian nightmare has begun

Quote:
View Post
Well labour laws will protect those lucky enough to live under their jurisdiction, however I think it should go further. People unfairly dismissed in say India should be able to challenge Teleperformance in the French courts e.g. through class action law firms.

Well, I'd argue they should have a case against their employer, not the software provider of their employer...no?



Thats essentially the "supply chain laws" currently discussed in pretty much all western countries. Thats what the Swiss voted on last year and while a majority of the voters wanted it, did the majority of the cantons throw it out... because there are many small, conservative cantons.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 27.03.2021, 14:39
NotAllThere's Avatar
Modulo 2
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Baselland
Posts: 15,034
Groaned at 308 Times in 263 Posts
Thanked 23,193 Times in 9,419 Posts
NotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The dystopian nightmare has begun

Not really a dystopian nightmare beginning. Bad managers have wanted to monitor their staff for decades. I wrote a program fifteen years ago to report on activity on my client's computer network. The data is gathered at userid level.

It wasn't used to monitor individuals (it was a systems tool to look for problematic processes) but it could have been. Steps were taken so that user identifiable data was hidden. Reports were only in aggregate.

What particularly stupid is that if an employee is taking the piss, any competent* manager will spot it without surveillance.



* And there lies the nub of the issue...
__________________
Down with racism. Long live miscegenation!
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 27.03.2021, 15:33
HIAO's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Suisse Romande
Posts: 1,398
Groaned at 10 Times in 9 Posts
Thanked 3,553 Times in 1,012 Posts
HIAO has a reputation beyond reputeHIAO has a reputation beyond reputeHIAO has a reputation beyond reputeHIAO has a reputation beyond reputeHIAO has a reputation beyond reputeHIAO has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The dystopian nightmare has begun

Quote:
View Post

Your child sits on your lap whilst you are working and you risk punishment if they look towards the screen.. seriously wtf?!?
And, they are in their own home.

My teams are all operating remotely, and not exactly through choice.

When we have our calls, they are always apologizing when the dog, cat, children, partner, postman interrupts.

I always tell them they have nothing to apologize for. I’m intruding into their home.
Reply With Quote
The following 6 users would like to thank HIAO for this useful post:
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The Yulin festival has begun! st2lemans Food and drink 8 25.06.2019 23:22
Has the Zombie Apocalypse Begun? jerallie International affairs/politics 28 04.06.2012 13:59
Cat nightmare Flamelily Pet corner 31 16.06.2011 20:32
New to Skiing - the nightmare leylak Sports / Fitness / Beauty / Wellness 75 15.03.2010 07:24
It has begun! (Fastnacht) Pekka Complaints corner 44 03.03.2009 23:16


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 04:06.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0