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  #41  
Old 05.04.2021, 23:56
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Re: After the Pandemic comes Climate Change armageddon says Attenborough

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The only sustainable resource for energy from seawater is heavy hydrogen for nuclear fusion.

Tom
Long shot, to put it mildly. What about tidal power?
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  #42  
Old 06.04.2021, 00:04
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Re: After the Pandemic comes Climate Change armageddon says Attenborough

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This planet was not built for 7.9 billion people. Maybe not for even half that number.
Yup. Trouble is, population growth is not a variable that can be influenced by any reasonable means except by giving girls a better education and women a better position in society, which takes decades. If you need proof, see China‘s one-child policy. It‘s a misnomer because second children were sometimes allowed. Introduced in 1978/9, it lasted till 2015. See what happened to the Chinese birth rate in those years:

https://data.worldbank.org/indicator...N?locations=CN

Birth rates actually rose after the policy was introduced and sank after it was abolished. OTOH, birth rates dropped dramatically in the decade before. Why? My best guess is the „Cultural Revolution“ - a nasty time to live in China, and obviously not conducive to starting a family.

So, short of totalitarian measures, population growth is one of the things we need to accept because we cannot change it. The better news is that are a lot of other things that we can change. See above. God grant us the courage to start. Then again: if we don‘t, I trust life will become so nasty that birth rates will drop quite naturally... It makes me sad, above all for the one child we produced.
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  #43  
Old 06.04.2021, 00:13
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Re: After the Pandemic comes Climate Change armageddon says Attenborough

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Haven't you listened to Greta:

“The world is going to end in 12 years if we don't address climate change.”

I actually think it's a good thing we are waking up as energy security is critical and renewables will be cheaper than fossil fuels.
I agree wholeheartedly with your last sentence. But if you must ridicule Greta, at least don‘t do it by misquoting her. She knows more about the issue than most politicians. And while it is easy to dismiss sailing across the Atlantic as a publicity stunt, it did highlight the lack of sustainable alternatives to flying. I regret the death of so many ferries and wish they‘d make a comeback. Trains get you everywhere in Europe, but...
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  #44  
Old 06.04.2021, 10:38
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Re: After the Pandemic comes Climate Change armageddon says Attenborough

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Excellent question. I beg to disagree: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/risin...090000627.html Seems to be limited to the US. The south coast of England is crumbling in several places, too. Here‘s one: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-dorset-28898711 And... Venice? Are those super-duper new flood gates working yet?

My favourite „Curse for Jewish Republicans“: May you sell everything and retire to Florida just as global warming makes it uninhabitable. (Yes, it is that old - dates from the days when they didn‘t call it climate change yet.)
Thanks a lot.

I'm marginally interested in the topic for professional reasons. I'm pleased to see a signal in the prices....in spite of the aphorism never reason from a price change.
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  #45  
Old 10.04.2021, 23:38
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Re: After the Pandemic comes Climate Change armageddon says Attenborough

What is it with this topic? Too scary? Too controversial? Too much of a non sequitur in evey sense of the word?
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  #46  
Old 11.04.2021, 09:18
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Re: After the Pandemic comes Climate Change armageddon says Attenborough

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What is it with this topic? Too scary? Too controversial? Too much of a non sequitur in every sense of the word?
Never fear the revival of the Woolly Mammoth to once again roam the Siberian arctic after 100,000 years
will, ( according to Scientists ) save us and make an impact in reversing Global Warming.

Even Greta says - Hug a Mammoth !!

BBC Science - How mammoths could fight climate change video

Last edited by John William; 11.04.2021 at 09:41.
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  #47  
Old 11.04.2021, 09:49
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Re: After the Pandemic comes Climate Change armageddon says Attenborough

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Never fear the revival of the Woolly Mammoth to once again roam the Siberian arctic after 100,000 years
will, ( according to Scientists ) save us and make an impact in reversing Global Warming.

Even Greta says - Hug a Mammoth !!

BBC Science - How mammoths could fight climate change video
It was only 10,000 years, not 100,000. Mammoth tusks are trawled out of the North Sea...
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  #48  
Old 11.04.2021, 16:26
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Re: After the Pandemic comes Climate Change armageddon says Attenborough

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It was only 10,000 years, not 100,000. Mammoth tusks are trawled out of the North Sea...
Typo error.
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  #49  
Old 11.04.2021, 20:59
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Re: After the Pandemic comes Climate Change armageddon says Attenborough

Any prognostic as to what will happen would be speculation, this corvid thing will occupy us for the next five years at least.
But if I were to speculate I would say that the rich will get richer, the middle class will slide to the poor and the inequity gap will widen, it´s already tending to this but Corvid will accelerate the process. Vanity projects like environmental protection or social programs and foreign aid will get their funding cut and the big winner will be China.
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  #50  
Old 11.04.2021, 23:17
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Any prognostic as to what will happen would be speculation, this corvid thing will occupy us for the next five years at least.
But if I were to speculate I would say that the rich will get richer, the middle class will slide to the poor and the inequity gap will widen, it´s already tending to this but Corvid will accelerate the process. Vanity projects like environmental protection or social programs and foreign aid will get their funding cut and the big winner will be China.
„Vanity projects like environmental protection“... hm. A couple of quotes:

„The ultimate hidden truth of the world is that it is something we make. And could just as easily make differently.“ (David Graeber.) This goes for things like economics and society, e.g. the rich becoming richer. It is not true for the laws of physics, or of nature. We are part of an ecosystem we are fast destroying. We could tax the rich. If we wanted to. Easier than stopping global warming, not to mention its reversal.

„Unless we take action on climate change, future generations will be roasted, toasted, fried and grilled.“ Not Greta. What is it with grown men who think they can prove their superiority by mocking her? Christine Lagarde. 2014.

Seems to me folks are in denial. Pity. Then again, EF is to some extent a forum for highly qualified migrant workers with a focus on making money. Specific priorities. Here‘s hoping others think different.

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Typo error.
Perhaps. Then again, my first spontaneous association was Innumeracy - not the basic kind, but the title of an old book by John Allen Paulos. A fun read.

OP, may I ask what your intention was starting this thread? I seem to have misunderstood?

Armageddon is a big word. Thing is, there are tipping points. The outlook for coral reefs, the sea’s most diverse habitats, is pretty dismal given the steady warming and acidification of the oceans. As for the most diverse habitats on land, rain forests, well, we all know what‘s happening to those, don‘t we? Even if we can‘t say at what rate they‘re going. (About a football pitch a minute.) Heaven knows what all that will mean further up the food chain. We’re part of that. We already eat a range of plastics, probably with effects on our fertility. (Cf. a recent book, Count Down.) Technology isn‘t going to save us this time. It strikes me as strange how strenuously we are avoiding any serious effort to avoid the sh*t hitting the fan. It‘s not as though scientists hadn’t been warning us for, er, generations. Homo sapiens sapiens or stultus stultus?

The resounding silence here, apart from a few largely flippant comments, is hard to interpret. Weariness? Fear? A perceived need to preserve optimism, camaraderie and good humour? Groupthink? It is a consolation to me that Douglas Adams said that of all his books, Last Chance To See was his favourite. Adams’ sense of humour is above suspicion, yet he faced up to mass extinction three decades ago.

So long, and thanks for all the fish!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3bdQPhqL3xo

Last edited by 3Wishes; 30.04.2021 at 21:04. Reason: merging consecutive replies
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  #51  
Old 13.04.2021, 01:01
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Perhaps. Then again, my first spontaneous association was Innumeracy - not the basic kind, but the title of an old book by John Allen Paulos. A fun read.
No simply my internet connection going down before I could correct it.

BBC Reality check

BBC Reality Check video - What has Covid done for the climate crisis ?

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Armageddon is a big word. Thing is, there are tipping points
Yes you only have to look at the glaciers & ice sheets in Greenland today with what they were
even 20 or 30 years ago - to say they were melting away beyond their tipping points.

BBC News - Greenlands rapidly vanishing glaciers

Last edited by 3Wishes; 30.04.2021 at 21:05. Reason: merging consecutive replies
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  #52  
Old 13.04.2021, 06:38
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Re: After the Pandemic comes Climate Change armageddon says Attenborough

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„Vanity projects like environmental protection“... hm. A couple of quotes:

„The ultimate hidden truth of the world is that it is something we make. And could just as easily make differently.“ (David Graeber.) This goes for things like economics and society, e.g. the rich becoming richer. It is not true for the laws of physics, or of nature. We are part of an ecosystem we are fast destroying. We could tax the rich. If we wanted to. Easier than stopping global warming, not to mention its reversal.

„Unless we take action on climate change, future generations will be roasted, toasted, fried and grilled.“ Not Greta. What is it with grown men who think they can prove their superiority by mocking her? Christine Lagarde. 2014.

Seems to me folks are in denial. Pity. Then again, EF is to some extent a forum for highly qualified migrant workers with a focus on making money. Specific priorities. Here‘s hoping others think different.
That was written with dripping sarcasm, because the way I see it is that it´s only countries that can afford efforts to curb climate change are the ones that actually do it and even then it´s a token effort to calm the "We are all doomed!" crowd.
Admittedly we could do something about climate change, but we are not going to do anything about it what so ever if it interferes even slightly with profits.
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  #53  
Old 13.04.2021, 11:00
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Re: After the Pandemic comes Climate Change armageddon says Attenborough

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OP, may I ask what your intention was starting this thread? I seem to have misunderstood?

Armageddon is a big word. Thing is, there are tipping points. The outlook for coral reefs, the sea’s most diverse habitats, is pretty dismal given the steady warming and acidification of the oceans. As for the most diverse habitats on land, rain forests, well, we all know what‘s happening to those, don‘t we? Even if we can‘t say at what rate they‘re going. (About a football pitch a minute.) Heaven knows what all that will mean further up the food chain. We’re part of that. We already eat a range of plastics, probably with effects on our fertility. (Cf. a recent book, Count Down.) Technology isn‘t going to save us this time. It strikes me as strange how strenuously we are avoiding any serious effort to avoid the sh*t hitting the fan. It‘s not as though scientists hadn’t been warning us for, er, generations. Homo sapiens sapiens or stultus stultus?

The resounding silence here, apart from a few largely flippant comments, is hard to interpret. Weariness? Fear? A perceived need to preserve optimism, camaraderie and good humour? Groupthink? It is a consolation to me that Douglas Adams said that of all his books, Last Chance To See was his favourite. Adams’ sense of humour is above suspicion, yet he faced up to mass extinction three decades ago.

So long, and thanks for all the fish!
The only weariness is about the use of words such as Armageddon. We're towards an evolutionary bottleneck, which is a sad and problematic thing. The Armageddon discourse only triggers acceptance and resignation when what we need is agency and brain to make the bottleneck as wide as possible.

About ocean acidification, we may need to give a break to our savior complex. Life was neither invented yesterday, not created 6000 or so years ago We need to acknowledge most of living thing have been here longer than us and quite probably stay longer than us. Some corals can adapt to more acidic waters https://phys.org/news/2018-06-coral-...ification.html same for mussels https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...48969719347850

If we really damage the ecosystems that bad, well...it was a great ride, our numbers reduce and back to equilibrium. I don't want this to happen (went into science for this, then to engineering to implement it). But if it happens it will be a releaf valve and nature takes back its place. So, let's try to fix the mess but with the peace of mind that either success or fail, nature will be just fine.
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Old 13.04.2021, 11:10
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Re: After the Pandemic comes Climate Change armageddon says Attenborough

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Yup. Trouble is, population growth is not a variable that can be influenced by any reasonable means except by giving girls a better education and women a better position in society, which takes decades. If you need proof, see China‘s one-child policy. It‘s a misnomer because second children were sometimes allowed. Introduced in 1978/9, it lasted till 2015. See what happened to the Chinese birth rate in those years:

https://data.worldbank.org/indicator...N?locations=CN

Birth rates actually rose after the policy was introduced and sank after it was abolished. OTOH, birth rates dropped dramatically in the decade before. Why? My best guess is the „Cultural Revolution“ - a nasty time to live in China, and obviously not conducive to starting a family.

So, short of totalitarian measures, population growth is one of the things we need to accept because we cannot change it. The better news is that are a lot of other things that we can change. See above. God grant us the courage to start. Then again: if we don‘t, I trust life will become so nasty that birth rates will drop quite naturally... It makes me sad, above all for the one child we produced.
Also lead to an overpopulation of boys.
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Old 13.04.2021, 16:47
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Re: After the Pandemic comes Climate Change armageddon says Attenborough

People are taking about climate change in N years to come but seemingly chose to ignore the Fukushima nuclear plant disaster in 2011. The government has recently decided to dump the radioactive contaminated water into the Pacific Ocean and the media is surprisingly calm with it. Perhaps we live in another side of the world, not our problem eh?
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Old 15.04.2021, 16:36
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Re: After the Pandemic comes Climate Change armageddon says Attenborough

A good read with a glimpse of what's in store:

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine...istory/617793/
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Old 15.04.2021, 17:12
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Re: After the Pandemic comes Climate Change armageddon says Attenborough

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People are taking about climate change in N years to come but seemingly chose to ignore the Fukushima nuclear plant disaster in 2011. The government has recently decided to dump the radioactive contaminated water into the Pacific Ocean and the media is surprisingly calm with it. Perhaps we live in another side of the world, not our problem eh?
Because the contamination is very low, so except using scary words "radioactivity" "Fukushima" and "Godzilla" there is not much to say.
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Old 15.04.2021, 17:31
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Re: After the Pandemic comes Climate Change armageddon says Attenborough

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A good read with a glimpse of what's in store:

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine...istory/617793/
Fascinating!
https://youtu.be/cFods1KSWsQ
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Old 15.04.2021, 18:05
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Re: After the Pandemic comes Climate Change armageddon says Attenborough

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Old 15.04.2021, 20:44
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Re: After the Pandemic comes Climate Change armageddon says Attenborough

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The question is a simple one: " Can we do anything about it realistically?"
No, we cant!

We are all happy with our BMW's and Mercedes's parked outside our home.

We were given few documentaries as:

1. The Great Hack
2. Social Dilemma
3. Seaspiracy

We let politician lie and we don't do anything about it. As species we always start to change when is too late.
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